Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[deltic08]

You’d run a two hourly shuttle with a single DMU from Stranraer to Girvan which would also allow you to effectively operate one engine in steam for minimal signalling requirement.

If connected effectively to even an hourly electrified Girvan service extended from the fast Ayrs then you’d still end up with a faster and more frequent Glasgow - Stranraer service than at present.

and being single line with passing loops at only half the cost!

 

[318259]

It wouldn't make sense to electrify the Ayr line past Girvan, because you've got 30 miles of nothingness between Girvan and Stranraer. Even Stranraer station itself isn't terribly useful these days - it used to serve a ferry terminal that no longer exists. Same thing with the Kilmarnock line. After Kilmarnock, it's just tiny villages until you reach Dumfries.

If it were up to me, and I could justify spending money on building stations under "social mobility" and improving access to isolated communities, I would:

• Electrify the line to Kilmarnock and introduce half-hourly EMU services to Glasgow Central.
• DMU services from rural areas would terminate at Kilmarnock, making it more of a 'hub' station than it is today. It's certainly big enough.
• Two new stations between Kilmarnock and New Cumnock: one at Mauchline and the other at Cumnock & Logan.
• 1tp2h DMU service between Carlisle and Kilmarnock. This would also stop at Mauchline and Cumnock & Logan.
• 1tp2h DMU service between Stranraer and Kilmarnock, calling at Girvan, Maybole, Ayr and Troon.
• If I could time it correctly, another 1tp2h service between Girvan and New Cumnock, calling at Maybole, Ayr, Troon, Kilmarnock, Mauchline, Auchinleck and Cumnock & Logan. This would make an hourly service between Girvan and Ayr, an hourly service between Ayr and Kilmarnock without going all the way to Glasgow and back, and an hourly service linking some isolated villages in East Ayrshire to the main towns in the area.

 

[gsnedders]

I suspect the only reason to electrify the Dumfries line will be if there's major works done to double it (or vastly increase provision of passing loops) and to use it to relieve capacity on the WCML (probably moving freight onto it), assuming that stock is electric (which it mostly isn't currently, AFAIK).

 

[Highlandspring]

I suspect the only reason to electrify the Dumfries line will be if there's major works done to double it (or vastly increase provision of passing loops)

?????
The G&SW is entirely double track except for Barrhead to Lugton (6 miles), Lochridge to Kilmarnock (5 miles) and the single lead Gretna Junction (8 chains).

 

[gordonjahn]

?????
The G&SW is entirely double track except for Barrhead to Lugton (6 miles), Lochridge to Kilmarnock (5 miles) and the single lead Gretna Junction (8 chains).

And a very nice diversionary route it is too, not that we want to hear of bouncing bridges at Lamington again.

Seriously though, the Pendos have been dragged via the G&SW during blockades before and if/when Carstairs remodelling kicks off in CP6, assuming it's a blockade, then having direct access would be useful.

Faster accelerating services should reduce journey times too with all the stops... 1h45 to Dumfries is just a bit too long - get it to 1h30 and it's competitive with driving.

 

[gsnedders]

?????
The G&SW is entirely double track except for Barrhead to Lugton (6 miles), Lochridge to Kilmarnock (5 miles) and the single lead Gretna Junction (8 chains).

Why the hell am I imagining a large part of the line being single track? Um. Uh. And the stations I thought were single platform all have two. Um.

And a very nice diversionary route it is too, not that we want to hear of bouncing bridges at Lamington again.

Seriously though, the Pendos have been dragged via the G&SW during blockades before and if/when Carstairs remodelling kicks off in CP6, assuming it's a blockade, then having direct access would be useful.

Faster accelerating services should reduce journey times too with all the stops... 1h45 to Dumfries is just a bit too long - get it to 1h30 and it's competitive with driving.

I can't imagine the use as a diversionary route would justify the cost of electrifying it.

 

[najaB]

I can't imagine the use as a diversionary route would justify the cost of electrifying it.

It justified the cost of redoubling Gretna to Annan (though, there was a lot more coal traffic in those days).

 

[NotATrainspott]

I think TS would be loath to electrify Barrhead to Kilmarnock without it being redoubled. On one level, that redoubling might not be required for the future service provision, but on the other it means the route can be done 'properly' and they wouldn't need to effectively re-electrify the lot upon redoubling. I don't think there have been many routes which have been singled, then electrified, then redoubled. Singling after electrification has been done but it rarely involves moving the existing OHLE - it is, after all, a cost-cutting measure.

Barrhead-Kilmarnock is not an enormous distance - comparable again to the Shotts wiring. Redoubling would obviously add a bit of upfront cost. Going south of there would be a much bigger task requiring a lot of work before there's any real benefit. When wiring up to Aberdeen, for instance, it's possible to do it in individually useful chunks like Glasgow to Dunblane, Dunblane to Perth, Perth to Dundee and Dundee to Aberdeen. Costs can be spread and the benefits realised reasonably quickly for each chunk.

 

[59CosG95]

Back on topic I took a wee trip along the Shotts line.

Wiring from Midcalder appears to have reached somewhere between Addiewell and Breich.

Breich station is making good progress and looks to me like they’ll be spending considerably less than the closure proposal suggested. Access to the eastbound platform looks to be being taken from the north, avoiding the need for a new footbridge.

Masts appear pretty much complete except for the Cleland cutting, where work is ongoing.

Platform extension and resurfacing work seems to be making good progress as well.

The only remaining problem structure is the footbridge at Hartwood. There seems to be some work ongoing to improve the access to the eastbound platform so it looks like the plan may be to just remove the footbridge completely with no replacement.

All in all the work looks to be well ahead of schedule for a May 2019 completion. Could see the majority being complete by December to be honest.

How are the footbridge works at Shotts/Addiewell going? AIUI they weren't yet complete a month ago.

 

[Altnabreac]

Addiewell looked nearly complete. Still a site compound there but bridge looked nearly finished.

 

[Aictos]

Just wondering but when BR electrified and resignalled the Largs branch in 1986 as part the AyrLine electrification programme, the line between Ardrossan South Beach to Largs was reduced to single track and kept the former Up line for freight which I believe serves the facilities at the Hunterston Terminal.

Now would it be possible to bring the former Up line back to passenger standards and electrify it from Hunterston Junction to Saltcoats with a new platform at Ardrossan South Beach serving the newly upgraded line and a crossover closer to the junction from Ardrossan South Beach which leads to Largs or Ardrossan Harbour?

It just seems to be such a small amount of mileage to do, I wonder if it's possible to do as it might even lead to a increase in Largs services.

 

[gingertom]

Just wondering but when BR electrified and resignalled the Largs branch in 1986 as part the AyrLine electrification programme, the line between Ardrossan South Beach to Largs was reduced to single track and kept the former Up line for freight which I believe serves the facilities at the Hunterston Terminal.

Now would it be possible to bring the former Up line back to passenger standards and electrify it from Hunterston Junction to Saltcoats with a new platform at Ardrossan South Beach serving the newly upgraded line and a crossover closer to the junction from Ardrossan South Beach which leads to Largs or Ardrossan Harbour?

It just seems to be such a small amount of mileage to do, I wonder if it's possible to do as it might even lead to a increase in Largs services.

what are you trying to achieve? If it's a half hourly service to Largs then from what I can see from Google street view it looks as though there was considerable singling of the track. I'm not sure about Fairlie tunnel but the formation north towards Largs looks as though it was double at one time so could be restored, perhaps as a passing loop. Finding a path for it between Paisley and Glasgow Central might be more challenging.

 

[Southsider]

According to Twitter, unexpected ground conditions have delayed the installation of lifts at Livingston South. Main works are anticipated to complete in December with final commissioning in February. I guess this will delay electrification as they won’t want wires in the way while the lifts and bridge are constructed.

 

[InOban]

They've been giving March for completion of electrification for some time.

 

[Carntyne]

According to Twitter, unexpected ground conditions have delayed the installation of lifts at Livingston South. Main works are anticipated to complete in December with final commissioning in February. I guess this will delay electrification as they won’t want wires in the way while the lifts and bridge are constructed.

It will not delay electrification, there is no reason why it would affect it.

 

[gingertom]

It will not delay electrification, there is no reason why it would affect it.

nothing to stop other bits of wiring work being carried out whilst this problem gets sorted- I'm sure the wiring teams have plenty to keep themselves busy.

 

[380101]

what are you trying to achieve? If it's a half hourly service to Largs then from what I can see from Google street view it looks as though there was considerable singling of the track. I'm not sure about Fairlie tunnel but the formation north towards Largs looks as though it was double at one time so could be restored, perhaps as a passing loop. Finding a path for it between Paisley and Glasgow Central might be more challenging.

If the freight only line was wired from Hunterston Junction it would leave approx. 4 miles of single line to Largs. The double line section would require new platforms built at West Kilbride and Ardrossan South Beach. The track capacity issue is easily solved to allow 2tph to/from Largs by switching almost all the Ardrossan Harbour services to become the 2nd Largs service every hour. Most of the Harbour services are pointless as they do not connect in with a ferry.

 

[DuncanS]

According to Twitter, unexpected ground conditions have delayed the installation of lifts at Livingston South. Main works are anticipated to complete in December with final commissioning in February. I guess this will delay electrification as they won’t want wires in the way while the lifts and bridge are constructed.

They are electrifying Stirling and putting in a new footbridge and its temporary replacement at the moment.

 

[smtglasgow]

Is there any information about what sort of service we can expect once the Shotts line electrification is complete? I’m working in Edinburgh from next month and was thinking about using the P&R at Bellshill to avoid doubling back into Glasgow. Previous experience on this line has been mixed – seems to be hit harder than other lines by cancellations and disruption – but when it works, the fast trains are quite impressive. Guessing electrics will simply take over the existing timetable to begin with (in March?), but could we be looking at December 2019 for a new timetable? If so, will there be additional services - particularly to fill the gaps after the evening peak.

 

[kilonewton]

They are electrifying Stirling and putting in a new footbridge and its temporary replacement at the moment.

Not a new footbridge. Taking the existing one out, re-fettling it, then putting the same bridge back in, albeit slightly higher to get the clearances. Heritage requirements.

 

[Fougasse]

According to Twitter, unexpected ground conditions have delayed the installation of lifts at Livingston South. Main works are anticipated to complete in December with final commissioning in February. I guess this will delay electrification as they won’t want wires in the way while the lifts and bridge are constructed.

Nearly all the wires are already up between just East of Breich and Mid-Calder.
Most of the remaining wires should be up by early October.

 

[alangla]

I’m working in Edinburgh from next month and was thinking about using the P&R at Bellshill to avoid doubling back into Glasgow.

I'd consider going to somewhere like Drumgelloch - the car park there usually seems to have space any time I pass, there's 4 TPH to Edinburgh and you're basically guaranteed a pair of seats to yourself at least to Bathgate, you'll be rammed in to/from Livvy North in the peaks though

 

[deltic08]

I'd consider going to somewhere like Drumgelloch - the car park there usually seems to have space any time I pass, there's 4 TPH to Edinburgh and you're basically guaranteed a pair of seats to yourself at least to Bathgate, you'll be rammed in to/from Livvy North in the peaks though

We don't know smtglasgow's exact location. He may live in Bellshill or south of Bellshill so Drumgelloch would be less convenient.

 

[smtglasgow]

I actually live on the edge of Glasgow (next to the old zoo). Bellshill is the station of choice for various and complicated reasons – easy drive; other half works in Lanarkshire, so can drop me off if need be; good bus service from home to Bellshill if all else fails. Uddingston would be better still, but there are few direct trains and I’ve been let down by the connection off the Lanark train in the past. Tbh, taking the E&G into Queen Street and getting the bus home from the city centre is surprisingly quick, but it always feels wrong somehow to be doubling back so much.

My question was really just about service levels post-electrification. The Shotts line will struggle to challenge the other Glasgow-Edinburgh lines (and why should it, it serves many towns and villages inbetween), but the faster acceleration on the electrics should make the journey that bit quicker.

 

[deltic08]

I actually live on the edge of Glasgow (next to the old zoo). Bellshill is the station of choice for various and complicated reasons – easy drive; other half works in Lanarkshire, so can drop me off if need be; good bus service from home to Bellshill if all else fails. Uddingston would be better still, but there are few direct trains and I’ve been let down by the connection off the Lanark train in the past. Tbh, taking the E&G into Queen Street and getting the bus home from the city centre is surprisingly quick, but it always feels wrong somehow to be doubling back so much.

My question was really just about service levels post-electrification. The Shotts line will struggle to challenge the other Glasgow-Edinburgh lines (and why should it, it serves many towns and villages inbetween), but the faster acceleration on the electrics should make the journey that bit quicker.

Thank you for the explanation. Now clear for all.

 

[jopsuk]

What's the current status with Stirling Dunblane and Alloa?

 

[mcmad]

What's the current status with Stirling Dunblane and Alloa?

Phase 1 (Greenhill - Polmont via Carmuirs and Falkirk Grahamston) is live
Phase 2 (Larbert to Dunblane & Alloa) is still under construction with an expected go live of December.

 

[gingertom]

Phase 1 (Greenhill - Polmont via Carmuirs and Falkirk Grahamston) is live
Phase 2 (Larbert to Dunblane & Alloa) is still under construction with an expected go live of December.

lots of steelwork going up at Stirling station. Wire runs appearing to the north of the station towards Dunblane and progress being made towards Alloa.

 

[InOban]

There is every indication that work is proceeding to schedule. The final major infrastructure, Kerse Road Bridge, is due to reopen on 23rd October.

I thought the Alloa branch was done in a blockade earlier? Or was that just the masts?

 

[gingertom]

There is every indication that work is proceeding to schedule. The final major infrastructure, Kerse Road Bridge, is due to reopen on 23rd October.

I thought the Alloa branch was done in a blockade earlier? Or was that just the masts?

Not sure. I regularly visit a friend whose property overlooks the Stirling end of the Alloa branch and it was masts and small steelworks as far as the eye could see. Wires have only just recently started to go up at this end but good progress being made. On my latest visit towards the end of last week the southern approaches to Stirling next to the A91 was still masts only.