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Royal Mail Post by Train

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Highlandspring

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The class 325s came about as part of the huge “Railnet” project in 1995/96 which modernised the Royal Mail railway operations in partnership with Rail Express Systems (by then part of EWS) and Railtrack. I’ve got a very interesting booklet about the project from 1996 but at 14 pages it’s a bit long to upload here in full. The main aims of Railnet were to introduce distribution of presorted mail in York Containers, which were/are the standard Royal Mail cage trolly, automation and mechanisation to minimise handling, dispensing with loose mailbags except on TPO services and ending the use of ordinary passenger trains to distribute mail. The whole point of the class 325s was to carry York Containers exclusively, no loose bags and no personnel*. There was a lot of invesment - £150 million at 1996 prices - in new dedicated terminals and York handling equipment, new and refurbished rolling stock (including the 16 class 325 units) and it was a 10 year contract running from September 1996 to September 2006.


*Although interestingly the 325s do have a PA system, which the original Adtranz Operating Manual suggests should be used to ressassure anyone trapped on board while the train is moving and instruct them not to try to open the roller shutter doors. There isn’t a passcomm but there is a motion detector system which was intended to detect a person on board the train (accidentally or intentionally) after the doors are shut. In practice it is far, far better at detecting wobbling York trollies, which is why almost every class 325 you see moving will have the blue hazard lights illuminated showing that the motion detector system has been triggered.
 
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michael74

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I am intrigued as to how the 'road' legs from Scilly to Exeter and Mainland Scotland to Orkney worked given that they are islands. Am I missing something?

Certainly from Scilly to the mainland the mail bags went on the ferry to Penzance then onto a wagon, but thinking about it, it may have gone again on a flight to Orkney from Inverness, its been a while since I watched it.
 

InterCity:125

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I am intrigued as to how the 'road' legs from Scilly to Exeter and Mainland Scotland to Orkney worked given that they are islands. Am I missing something?
There’s this magical invention called a ferry:
34FAC36D-0548-45F3-A530-69B04B3639C1.jpeg
Here’s the one for the Scillies.
B2005461-59A7-4EAC-9E35-D6D8977937B6.jpeg
And the orkneys.
 

Tim R-T-C

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The class 325s came about as part of the huge “Railnet” project in 1995/96 which modernised the Royal Mail railway operations in partnership with Rail Express Systems...

... In practice it is far, far better at detecting wobbling York trollies, which is why almost every class 325 you see moving will have the blue hazard lights illuminated showing that the motion detector system has been triggered.

Wow, learnt something new, thanks.
 

Dr Hoo

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There’s this magical invention called a ferry:
View attachment 50803
Here’s the one for the Scillies.
View attachment 50804
And the orkneys.
Fair enough. I hadn't realised that Royal Mail used ferries for the island bits and only flew mail over land (which seems a bit counter-intuitive). I also thought that the Isles of Scilly ferries only ran on certain days of the week and/or certain times of year. But they must have got it worked out.
Anyway, rather OT given that there have been no Mail trains anywhere near Penzance or Thurso for quite a while.
 
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michael74

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Fair enough. I hadn't realised that Royal Mail used ferries for the island bits any only flew mail over land (which seems a bit counter-intuitive). I also thought that the Isles of Scilly ferries only ran on certain days of the week and/or certain times of year. But they must have got it worked out.
Anyway, rather OT given that there have been no Mail trains anywhere near Penzance or Thurso for quite a while.

In years gone by, the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company when sailing into the River Mersey from the Isle of Man, would fly a special pennant denoting the fact they were carrying the mail, this allowed them priority up river and to dock 1st at the Pier Head.
 

InterCity:125

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Fair enough. I hadn't realised that Royal Mail used ferries for the island bits any only flew mail over land (which seems a bit counter-intuitive). I also thought that the Isles of Scilly ferries only ran on certain days of the week and/or certain times of year. But they must have got it worked out.
They probably fly it to the orkneys to be fair but the only planes flying to the Scillies are tiny and the ferry sails every day during to summer.

Mail is definitely transported by ferry to the Isle of Wight, I was parked next to a large Royal Mail lorry on the Yarmouth to lymington service last time I was there.
 

KingJ

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I happened to stumble across this presentation from DB Cargo. Does quite nicely delve in to the history and current usage of the fleet and the overail rail-based mail services.
 

Condor7

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Out of curiosity with what stock do those run? I know the 325s went through a phase of being hauled everywhere by locomotive (presumably it wasn't felt to be worthwhile doing traction training when the flows were so restricted) but I hadn't realised that there were other services?

Below is a clip (not mine) on YouTube which about 10 mins in shows a Royal Mail 325 being hauled by a class 67 last month, although no reason is given as to why, maybe a breakdown. As has already been mentioned the December loco hauled trains are made up of VGA wagons and while every December (to the best of my knowledge) extra trains run they are not always loco hauled.
 

Highlandspring

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I know the 325s went through a phase of being hauled everywhere by locomotive (presumably it wasn't felt to be worthwhile doing traction training when the flows were so restricted)
No, that was due to extensive traction motor problems affecting the fleet during the GBRf tenure. Some units even operated loco hauled with the PMV vehicle removed at the height of the troubles.
 

ainsworth74

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No, that was due to extensive traction motor problems affecting the fleet during the GBRf tenure. Some units even operated loco hauled with the PMV vehicle removed at the height of the troubles.

Interesting, thank you :)
 

infobleep

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They probably fly it to the orkneys to be fair but the only planes flying to the Scillies are tiny and the ferry sails every day during to summer.
What do they do in winter? Tell the residents they have to wait until the summer? Haha

I wouldn't expect a massive amount of mail. Of course once there how do they securely get it to each Island?
 

DarloRich

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I have been on that one and it had royal mail vans on board with us. In true mail by rail style they rushed aboard at the last possible moment!

Of course once there how do they securely get it to each Island?

by van, all year round, on the internal island ferry systems. I have been on plenty of Cal Mac island services and you often see the postie in his van waiting for the ferry.
 
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al78

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What do they do in winter? Tell the residents they have to wait until the summer? Haha

I wouldn't expect a massive amount of mail. Of course once there how do they securely get it to each Island?

Ferries to the Orkneys and other populated islands around Scotland run during winter.
 

DarloRich

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Ferries to the Orkneys and other populated islands around Scotland run during winter.

Indeed - I understand the crossing to the Orkneys can be "rough" in the winter. it was choppy enough in April when I went. We went out via Scrabster (Northlink as shown above) and back via Gills Bay ( Pentland)

The islands arent cut off! I wonder how the poster quoted thinks the people of, say, Barra survive the winter months!
 

Muzer

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Really interesting info in this thread - I knew a lot of the broad strokes but I love the fascinating detail people have provided. Thanks!

And it doe make me wonder if the mail network will expand further. Unfortunately it seems the boom in online shopping came just at the wrong time for parcels-carrying rail services to be saved - if there had been more overlap between the times when email replaced letter-writing and the times when online shopping (in part) replaced shopping in stores, I imagine more of the services would have been saved.
 

DarloRich

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Really interesting info in this thread - I knew a lot of the broad strokes but I love the fascinating detail people have provided. Thanks!

And it doe make me wonder if the mail network will expand further. Unfortunately it seems the boom in online shopping came just at the wrong time for parcels-carrying rail services to be saved - if there had been more overlap between the times when email replaced letter-writing and the times when online shopping (in part) replaced shopping in stores, I imagine more of the services would have been saved.

I think one of the big issues was the ability of the railway to deliver the mail train timetables due to engineering works. Afterall the mail must always get through.................
 

gsnedders

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I think one of the big issues was the ability of the railway to deliver the mail train timetables due to engineering works. Afterall the mail must always get through.................
Yeah, this is my understanding with some of the movement away from rail; if you're going to own trucks for when the trains can't run, why are you paying for two sets of assets, one of which is sitting idle?
 

Brian1979

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For a while EWS also had an express parcels service from Walsall using GUVs/CCTs after everything else had finished (for DHL?) but they finished that quite a while back.
It was indeed DHL. Ran between Inverness and Walsall. I used to shunt the train at Law Junction about 14 years ago. First job we used the class 67 on if I remember correctly.
 

Highlandspring

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It was indeed DHL. Ran between Inverness and Walsall. I used to shunt the train at Law Junction about 14 years ago. First job we used the class 67 on if I remember correctly.
There was also a portion from Law Jn to Aberdeen - ran as 1S03 on the way north and 5D03 on the return.
 

DarloRich

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But they don't run to the Isles of Scilly is my understanding.

there is a boat from Penzance to the Isle of Scilly. It is called RMV Scillonian III - It is A Royal Mail Vessel and it runs on a daily basis. i believe in the winter an alternative ship takes over but offers only very limited passenger accommodation

Wiki said:
RMV Scillonian III is a passenger ship based at Penzance in Cornwall, England, United Kingdom, run by the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company. She operates the principal ferry service to the Isles of Scilly and is one of only three ships in the world still carrying the status of Royal Mail Ship (hence RMV – Royal Mail Vessel).

here is a picture:

Penzance by DarloRich2009, on Flickr

And the orkneys.

That isnt the only ferry route to the Orkney. There is also Pentland Ferries:

St Margaret's Hope by DarloRich2009, on Flickr
 
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David57

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Mail from the NDC at Crick, the driver (me on a few occasions) books on at 04.00 to take the mail to Portsmouth ferry terminal to meet the Chanel Island boat, and changes trailers.
At Busy times, Mail is trunked up to Warrington to connect with the train to Scotland (and also connect with lorries heading to Birkenhead, for the Belfast ship),and also loads there for Southern destinations.
At quieter times, a trailer change (several times a day) takes place in Preston RM depot.
A little known flow is via the Daventry rail terminal, a few (10?) containers a day at busy times, returning equipment (York cages etc) from Scotland.
 
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