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TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

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TheGrandWazoo

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Agreed. Under Express Motors, the X1 service was hourly to Betws y Coed, with five extensions to Blaenau (and advertised connections with the C35 to Dolgellau). Since Express Motors' demise, GHA's X19 has more through services to Blaenau (6) but the mid-day service is quite patchy: between the 09:10 and 16:30 departures from Llandudno there's two buses to Blaenau and one to Betws, and from the Betws direction there are no northbound buses between 1255 and 1625. There's a 14:57 departure by train, but if you've already bought a bus ticket it's not that appealing.

I imagine GHA’s service is worse than patchy!

Whilst the service to Blaenau may be patchy, the main passenger flows are Llanwrst and Betws and that has a decent service. I can imagine why people may welcome additional services though and TCs raison d’etre is to compliment rail services and that doesn’t mean you can’t have routes that run parallel to low frequency rail.
 
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Cambrian359

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I would guess that a new frequent T service would replace both existing bus services between llan and Dol
 

krus_aragon

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I would guess that a new frequent T service would replace both existing bus services between llan and Dol

To a certain extent: there are two bus services down the Conwy Valley to Betws Y Coed: one each side of the river. The 19 (also operated by GHA) runs south from Conwy through the likes of Dolgarrog and Trefriw, which aren't served by a bus going down the A470. That route would still be needed even if the X19 were subsumed into a TrawsCymru route.

Ironically, even though both the east and west Conwy Valley buses are now operated by the same company (the first time in a while) they aren't dovetailed to make a frequent end-to-end service from Llandudno/Conwy to Llanrwst/Betws: the 19 and X19 are often timetabled to arrive at Betws within 10-15 minutes of each other.
 

Statto

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To a certain extent: there are two bus services down the Conwy Valley to Betws Y Coed: one each side of the river. The 19 (also operated by GHA) runs south from Conwy through the likes of Dolgarrog and Trefriw, which aren't served by a bus going down the A470. That route would still be needed even if the X19 were subsumed into a TrawsCymru route.

Ironically, even though both the east and west Conwy Valley buses are now operated by the same company (the first time in a while) they aren't dovetailed to make a frequent end-to-end service from Llandudno/Conwy to Llanrwst/Betws: the 19 and X19 are often timetabled to arrive at Betws within 10-15 minutes of each other.


GHA ceased trading a couple of years ago, the 19/X19 is now operated by Llew Jones
 

adey2011

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Anybody know who won the contract for the T10?

Dave
For some reason this seems to be a state secret, it was supposed to commence on Monday, if it does the possiblilty of the buses being new and in Traws Cymru livery see very remote. The T11 according to the rumour mill should start on September 13th, probably be a simular situation. lt could be there is more than one operator in for it and finite discussions between Conwy Council, Traws Cymru and the operators to ensure that all parties are happy with the outcome are taking longer than anticipated.
 
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Sent a tweet to TravelineCymru & TrawsCymru regarding the possibility of the new route starting on Monday, and here is the reply I received:
Hi Danny. We are not aware of any new TrawsCymru routes starting on Monday. There are a number of new TraswsCymru services being introduced in the Autumn, but the details are still being finalised. Thanks!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Sorry, substitute GHA for Llew in all my posts.
Hence my comment about GHA's service being patchy ;)

Sent a tweet to TravelineCymru & TrawsCymru regarding the possibility of the new route starting on Monday, and here is the reply I received:
Sounds like the rumour mill has been slightly off message. Thanks for the update
 

adey2011

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Hence my comment about GHA's service being patchy ;)


Sounds like the rumour mill has been slightly off message. Thanks for the update
Quite, but you can only go on what you read and several people have seen the start date of Augustv 13th for the start of the T3 on the invite to tender documents. Also both Lloyds and Tanat Valley have withdrawn their services on the X85 from September 2nd, this would naturally leave one to assume that the X85 is to be replaced by the T11 Monday 3rd September. If not then the X85 will have to re-registered or there will be no buses between Machynlleth and Newtown until other arrangements are made.
 
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The ITT for the T10 clearly states 13th august
It wouldn't be the first time communication hasn't quite made it to TravelineCymru. The Snowdon Sherpa didn't exist for several weeks (according to Traveline) after a recent timetable change. Suppose we'll find out shortly though :)
 

Swr28

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Quite, but you can only go on what you read and several people have seen the start date of Augustv 13th for the start of the T3 on the invite to tender documents. Also both Lloyds and Tanat Valley have withdrawn their services on the X85 from September 2nd, this would naturally leave one to assume that the X85 is to be replaced by the T11 Monday 3rd September. If not then the X85 will have to re-registered or there will be no buses between Machynlleth and Newtown until other arrangements are made.

There would have to be a level of service from September as the X85 was/is contracted to convey students to Coleg Powys, and some school kids from Carno to Caersws.
 

johntrawscymru

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This route must be dedicated to the Trawscymru Network Manager and it probably goes past his house as he is a Llandudno man. Has anyone seen the Weltag document for this route (KS has said Weltag must be applied to all transport projects funded in part or in full by the Welsh Government). Has there been any engagement with the public and a review of the route published. I think not. I suspect KS and the TNM made this decision over a pint in a North Wales hostelry.
On another note vaguely related to Trawscymru. I asked Bus Users Cymru to supply performance monitoring data on Trawscymru services into Aberystwyth . They are funded by the Welsh Government and monitor timings on bus services to check they meet the Road Traffic Commissioners guidlines, plus ""champion the bus user"" (??) by dealing with complaints. However on 06/06/2018 they were registered as a charity and no longer need to answer Freedom of Information requests from the public. There has been a deathly silence regarding performance monitoring data but never mind as everyone who cannot afford the bus fare can now ring up Bus Users Cymru for a charity handout.
 

johntrawscymru

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Had a few more journeys on the T1C . The numbers using the service has dropped (the last journey had 10 passengers on from Aberystwyth and 22 arrived in Cardiff). The T1C was 36 minutes late arriving in Cardiff , 20 minutes of which was the diversion off the route to visit the shopping complex at Culverhouse Cross on the edge of Cardiff which was gridlocked . The diversion was pointless (as it has been for the 6 journeys I have travelled on) since no passengers got on or off at this location .Also no passengers on or off at the other 2 diversions off the M4 at Junction 44 (Skewen) and Junction 36 (McArthur Glen shopping complex near Bridgend). The same picture on the way back, delayed at Culverhouse Cross but not as bad as in the morning and no passengers on or off at the 3 diversions. Arrived at Carmarthen 3 minutes early and waited the normal 20 minutes for no reason at all. Why do the Welsh Government not talk to the drivers who would tell them that the 20 minute wait in Carmarthen on the way back is completely unnecessary. The drivers would also tell them that the 3 diversions off the main route pick up and deposit few passengers while easy stops along the route which would pick up passengers (Pencader) are ignored. It would also be useful if the published timetables and the travelline website emphasised that the T5 from Cardigan/Newquay can connect with the T1C to Cardiff. In the morning the T5 service from Cardigan reaches Synod Inn at 9.44, Newquay at 9.59, Llanarth at 10.03 and Aberaeron at 10.14. The T1C service to Cardiff reaches Llanarth at 10.08 and passes the T5 between Aberaeron and Llanarth . The T1C could therefore pick up passengers from the T5 at either Llanarth or Synod Inn . I am sure the large number of holiday makers in the Newquay area would use the service to go to Cardiff if the connection between the T5 and T1C were publicised .

There is still no connection between the T2 from Dolgellau (arrives 9.30 in Aberystwyth) and the T1C to Cardiff (departs 9.30 from Aberystwyth) and these 2 services are classed as non connecting services, which is clearly ridiculous. Lloyds coaches said in June that they were happy to look at changing the T2 departure time in Dolgellau , but the Welsh Government, Gwynedd Council and Ceredigion Council are refusing to address the connectivity issue.

Unless something is done to improve this route and increase the number of passengers the route will fail and be withdrawn..
 

Teflon Lettuce

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The T1C was 36 minutes late arriving in Cardiff , 20 minutes of which was the diversion off the route to visit the shopping complex at Culverhouse Cross on the edge of Cardiff which was gridlocked . The diversion was pointless (as it has been for the 6 journeys I have travelled on) since no passengers got on or off at this location .Also no passengers on or off at the other 2 diversions off the M4 at Junction 44 (Skewen) and Junction 36 (McArthur Glen shopping complex near Bridgend).

The stops at Skewen, Bridgend and Culverhouse Cross aren't as pointless as you think. For the service to be classified as a local bus service , and therefore be eligible for BSOG and to be able to accept concessionary passes, it has to stop at least once every 15 miles. The stop at Skewen has to be put in because, unlike the old 701, the T1C bypasses Swansea {except on Sunday}. Having said that though, when the 701 was originally introduced by Bryan's Coaches it originally called at Culverhouse Cross but because of the serious delays it was changed to call at Leckwith instead. Also I'm surprised that the MacArthur Glen stop isn't being used as it was always a fairly popular stop on the 701.

The same picture on the way back, delayed at Culverhouse Cross but not as bad as in the morning and no passengers on or off at the 3 diversions. Arrived at Carmarthen 3 minutes early and waited the normal 20 minutes for no reason at all. Why do the Welsh Government not talk to the drivers who would tell them that the 20 minute wait in Carmarthen on the way back is completely unnecessary.

The reason for the wait at Carmarthen is to connect with the incoming T1S from Swansea and the outgoing T1 to Lampeter. The reason why the T1C comes in so early is because by departing Cardiff at 1645 it can guaruntee making the connection.. if it were to leave Cardiff 10 or 15 minutes later the traffic would be too unpredictable and the T1C would fail to make the connection more often than not.

It would also be useful if the published timetables and the travelline website emphasised that the T5 from Cardigan/Newquay can connect with the T1C to Cardiff.
The T1C timetable DOES show the connection with the T5. My guess is the reason why the T5 timetable doesn't is because there was such a large print run done they haven't used up all the old stock yet! As for Traveline, it's not exactly brilliant at showing connections, request stops or on demand services...in fact when the 701 was running if you went on Traveline and asked for "Aberystwyth" to "Cardiff" it would direct you onto the 701 to Swansea and change to 100/ Greyhound/ X10 to get to Cardiff... because the 701 was listed as going to St Mary's Street on it's database!

Unless something is done to improve this route and increase the number of passengers the route will fail and be withdrawn..

Didn't you realise that's the whole point of the exercise? The WAG had been trying to kill off the 701 for yrs and it was an embarrassment to them that it was such a success... proving that THEIR dogmatic ideas for long distance services in Wales are a nonsense. When Lewis's failed it took them 6 months to put a replacement bus service on as an "experiment" and only after a lot of campaigning by Elin Jones. Needless to say, a 5 hr ride on a bog standard bus wasn't exactly popular... so WAG said "see it failed". After lots more campaigning along the lines of "what do you expect.. it needs a coach" the latest incarnation was devised... they've put a coach on but so screwed up the route and timetable that it is no longer any use to man nor beast.... give it a year and I'm sure Ken Skates will come out of the woodwork and make all the right noises about how disappointed he is that the service is a failure and needs to be withdrawn!
 

K219UHA

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There would have to be a level of service from September as the X85 was/is contracted to convey students to Coleg Powys, and some school kids from Carno to Caersws.
Tanat Valley have gained the bulk of the T11 which replaces the X71 and of course extending north to Wrexham, Lloyds also have an input for the T11 which replaces the X85. Tanat are to be using existing Versas until new Metrocities are delivered for the service.
 

Swr28

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Tanat Valley have gained the bulk of the T11 which replaces the X71 and of course extending north to Wrexham, Lloyds also have an input for the T11 which replaces the X85. Tanat are to be using existing Versas until new Metrocities are delivered for the service.

Is there an available timetable published?

Im surprised that the x75 has never been considered to be Trawscymru-fied.

Slightly off trawscymru.. I have read Powys have recontracted all there school runs for this September. I have also heard from a town councillor in Machynlleth the 34a(former Crosville 521) Machynlleth Town service is to be withdrawn low passenger numbers? although not read anything official yet, i am not certain if it effects the 34 between Machynlleth and Aberllefenni as I believe that is a Gwynedd contract, although Machynlleth where it begins, C. A. T and Ceinws are in Powys.
 

adey2011

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Is there an available timetable published?

Im surprised that the x75 has never been considered to be Trawscymru-fied.

Slightly off trawscymru.. I have read Powys have recontracted all there school runs for this September. I have also heard from a town councillor in Machynlleth the 34a(former Crosville 521) Machynlleth Town service is to be withdrawn low passenger numbers? although not read anything official yet, i am not certain if it effects the 34 between Machynlleth and Aberllefenni as I believe that is a Gwynedd contract, although Machynlleth where it begins, C. A. T and Ceinws are in Powys.
The 34 though finishes @ Aberllefenni and Corris Uchaf which are Gwynedd.
 

Swr28

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The 34 though finishes @ Aberllefenni and Corris Uchaf which are Gwynedd.
I am aware of that i live in the valley! Ceinws and the C.A.T are in Powys the Dulas is the county boundary. So not certain if Powys provide some funding, i know they fund some of the school runs into Machynlleth.
 

adey2011

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I am aware of that i live in the valley! Ceinws and the C.A.T are in Powys the Dulas is the county boundary. So not certain if Powys provide some funding, i know they fund some of the school runs into Machynlleth.
I also live in the valley, small world
 

adey2011

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Tanat Valley have gained the bulk of the T11 which replaces the X71 and of course extending north to Wrexham, Lloyds also have an input for the T11 which replaces the X85. Tanat are to be using existing Versas until new Metrocities are delivered for the service.
I cannot find anything official announcement regarding award of the T11, from what you have heard when does it commence and are timetables available.
 

K219UHA

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I cannot find anything official announcement regarding award of the T11, from what you have heard when does it commence and are timetables available.
There doesn't appear to be anything in the public domain as yet, information gained from those working at one of the companies concerned. Contract starts 3rd September as I'm told. I will update as I know more.

As for the T10, that one is really not known at all!
 

adey2011

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There doesn't appear to be anything in the public domain as yet, information gained from those working at one of the companies concerned. Contract starts 3rd September as I'm told. I will update as I know more.

As for the T10, that one if really not known at all!
OK THANKS
 

johntrawscymru

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The stops at Skewen, Bridgend and Culverhouse Cross aren't as pointless as you think. For the service to be classified as a local bus service , and therefore be eligible for BSOG and to be able to accept concessionary passes, it has to stop at least once every 15 miles. The stop at Skewen has to be put in because, unlike the old 701, the T1C bypasses Swansea {except on Sunday}. Having said that though, when the 701 was originally introduced by Bryan's Coaches it originally called at Culverhouse Cross but because of the serious delays it was changed to call at Leckwith instead. Also I'm surprised that the MacArthur Glen stop isn't being used as it was always a fairly popular stop on the 701.

johntrawscymru Thanks for the info - was not aware of the 15 mile rule . Culverhouse Cross is still a nightmare and the constant delays will put people off

The reason for the wait at Carmarthen is to connect with the incoming T1S from Swansea and the outgoing T1 to Lampeter. The reason why the T1C comes in so early is because by departing Cardiff at 1645 it can guaruntee making the connection.. if it were to leave Cardiff 10 or 15 minutes later the traffic would be too unpredictable and the T1C would fail to make the connection more often than not.

johntrawscymru Just very frustrating for passengers and drivers alike in Carmarthen when T1C from Cardiff arrives 18.48, T1S from Swansea at 18.52 and T1 at 18.57. T1C and T1 then depart at 19.05. In my limited experience the T1C arrives early or on time and passengers have to amuse themselves for 20 minutes in Carmarthen bus station. Perhaps the answer would be to run the service through Lampeter and Swansea, skip Skewen and Culverhouse Cross and then there would be no need to wait in Carmarthen on the way back and no need for the T1S. It might be slightly longer, but there would be more passengers and would also save money on the T1S

The T1C timetable DOES show the connection with the T5. My guess is the reason why the T5 timetable doesn't is because there was such a large print run done they haven't used up all the old stock yet! As for Traveline, it's not exactly brilliant at showing connections, request stops or on demand services...in fact when the 701 was running if you went on Traveline and asked for "Aberystwyth" to "Cardiff" it would direct you onto the 701 to Swansea and change to 100/ Greyhound/ X10 to get to Cardiff... because the 701 was listed as going to St Mary's Street on it's database!

johntrawscymru The problem is that lots of people do not know of the existence of the T1C and do not know of the T5 connection. I have taken to telling people at bus stops of existence of the T1C. The publicity has been very poor when you consider that Ken Skates when he introduced the Free travel at weekends had TV coverage on the Welsh News Channel of the double deckers going along the T3 Wrexham to Barmouth route. The onboard screens in Trawscymru buses were introduced to keep people informed. For the last year they have been either switched off or just showing the Trawscymru logo. When the T1C was introduced in April the electronic screens on the T1/T2/T5 routes should have featured information on the service including the connections with the T5 and T1S and an apology for the passengers on the T2 from Dolgellau who cannot use the T1C because the T2 arrives in Aberystwyth at 9.30am at the same time as the T1C departs for Cardiff.

Didn't you realise that's the whole point of the exercise? The WAG had been trying to kill off the 701 for yrs and it was an embarrassment to them that it was such a success... proving that THEIR dogmatic ideas for long distance services in Wales are a nonsense. When Lewis's failed it took them 6 months to put a replacement bus service on as an "experiment" and only after a lot of campaigning by Elin Jones. Needless to say, a 5 hr ride on a bog standard bus wasn't exactly popular... so WAG said "see it failed". After lots more campaigning along the lines of "what do you expect.. it needs a coach" the latest incarnation was devised... they've put a coach on but so screwed up the route and timetable that it is no longer any use to man nor beast.... give it a year and I'm sure Ken Skates will come out of the woodwork and make all the right noises about how disappointed he is that the service is a failure and needs to be withdrawn!

johntrawscymru Unfortunately it is very difficult to argue against your analysis.
 
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Bwsbro

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Just seen this on the Vosa Website

PG1079161/164 Cancelled (Short notice)

NEW ADVENTURE TRAVEL LIMITED

Route: Brecon Interchange to Ystradgynlais Interchange via Llanfaes, Sennybridge, Craig Y Nos, Ynyswen

Service number: T6A (T6)

Service type: Normal Stopping

Effective date: 03 Sep 2018
 
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