Great Yarmouth - Reedham to close for six months

[yorksrob]

I guess people assume that as Yarmouth has a station and Lowestoft has a station and they're not far apart, that there *must* be a railway that connects them.

They would be right. It is an example of abject stupidity that the route from Lowestoft to Yarmouth was ever closed, taking in the well populated coastal area as well.

I have to say, these long closures make me feel distinctly uneasy. How long before someone says "well, its been closed for six months without fuss, you don't really need it".

 

[yorksrob]

I think that money had a bit to do with it.
To join the lines at Yarmouth would have required a new viaduct over the mouth of Breydon Water - with a movable section. There was a Breydon (railway) viaduct/swing bridge, it was closed in 1953? to avoid repairs, demolished 1962?. That connected the old M&GN Yarmouth Beach Station to Lowestoft, no link existed at Yarmouth Vauxhall (the current Yarmouth station) to the viaduct line.
Much of the old line to Lowestoft at the Yarmouth end was used in the early 1990's for the Gorleston relief road - now part of the A47/A12 link. That road could not have been built without the 'convenient' former rail corridor.
Would say 2tph compete with 4 buses ph that now link more communities and urban areas within and between Yarmouth and Lowestoft?
I suspect not.

I suspect that the railway would be rather more populatr than the bus if it existed now (except perhaps among those with bus passes).

 

[306024]

I suspect that the railway would be rather more popular than the bus if it existed now (except perhaps among those with bus passes).

Why? The bus is more flexible. The main generator of traffic along this corridor is the James Paget Hospital. The bus stops right outside the front door.

 

[yorksrob]

Why? The bus is more flexible. The main generator of traffic along this corridor is the James Paget Hospital. The bus stops right outside the front door.

I bet it takes longer than the train would though. Plus, lots of people just prefer the train. I'm not saying that that's an entirely logical state of affairs, just that if Lowestoft to Yarmouth existed today with a half hourly service, it would be doing fine.

 

[Essexman]

Compared to some other remote stations Berney Arms is relatively well used - by walkers, bird watches and of course railway enthusiasts. I doubt that most of these would want to travel even if alternative transport were provided - unless it is novelty value such as water taxi.

 

[chubs]

In regards to the Berney Arms being closed - I've just googled it out of curiosity and it's website would suggest it's open!

http://theberneyarms.co.uk/

Edit - Ignore this, I've just noticed this is a different Berney Arms

It's definitely shut.

Some people were running a cafe from one of the outbuildings (apparently it was a cafe when the pub was open too) but with a lack of menu or regular updates on whether it was actually open or not hardly anybody went.

https://www.facebook.com/berneyarmscafe/

There's since been a newer post suggesting even newer management are running it:

http://the-norfolk-broads.co.uk/viewtopics.cfm?Forum=19

Again unless they are targeting boaters with banners along the moorings I have no idea who would go as there is so little information available such as even a sample menu and opening hours.....

There has been a long running campaign by a community group who make infrequent updates that they are going to buy it but their crowdfunding campaign failed years ago

https://www.facebook.com/berneyarmspub

Anyway drifting off topic here

 

[47421]

is the plan still to stable the new bi-modes at Yarmouth or has that been overtaken by the plan to use Mid Norfolk railway?

 

[dk1]

Why? The bus is more flexible. The main generator of traffic along this corridor is the James Paget Hospital. The bus stops right outside the front door.

Gorleston Links Halt would probably say 'for JPH' & everything would call there.

 

[dk1]

is the plan still to stable the new bi-modes at Yarmouth or has that been overtaken by the plan to use Mid Norfolk railway?

There is a poster on here who works for the company involved in preparing Vauxhall sidings who claims his company will be returning to do more work at the end of this month. At all briefings recently GA staff have been told that Yarmouth has been scrapped but Victoria will go ahead.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Care to qualify "considerably" ?

Even 50% would only mean 30 people a week as opposed to 20 on average.....

I was waiting for Philthetube to come back on this .... but he hasn't. The impression I got from his post was that it could easily mean more like 100% or more.
Nonetheless, as Ianno87 implied - the vast majority are probably not in winter, and are purely leisure travellers, so will not be put out in any serious way.

Slightly OT - I noticed that the Wiki entry for Lowestoft railway station is extraordinarily well done (assuming it is accurate, that is). I wonder if any cotributors post on here? Congrats to you if you do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowestoft_railway_station

Interestingly, it says Network Rail actually suggested (n 2015) running a Lowestoft to Yarmouth service by reinstalling a chord to the south of Reedham. Seems somewhat fanciful (given the potential passenger numbers and pressure on NR in its many major proejects). Anytying come of this?

 

[dk1]

Interestingly, it says Network Rail actually suggested (n 2015) running a Lowestoft to Yarmouth service by reinstalling a chord to the south of Reedham. Seems somewhat fanciful (given the potential passenger numbers and pressure on NR in its many major proejects). Anytying come of this?

Of course not. It was utter tripe talked up no doubt in the pub after they'd had 20 pints each at least. It included a new station at Ely North Junction, diverting the Peterborough-Ipswich to Newmarket (via yet another reinstated curve) to connect with Cambridge-Ipswich services & there was to be another pie in the sky new station at Reedham Swing Bridge Junction with all local services running half hourly ramping up to every 15mins metro style from Brundall

 

[gord]

I was waiting for Philthetube to come back on this .... but he hasn't. The impression I got from his post was that it could easily mean more like 100% or more.
Nonetheless, as Ianno87 implied - the vast majority are probably not in winter, and are purely leisure travellers, so will not be put out in any serious way.

Slightly OT - I noticed that the Wiki entry for Lowestoft railway station is extraordinarily well done (assuming it is accurate, that is). I wonder if any cotributors post on here? Congrats to you if you do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowestoft_railway_station

Interestingly, it says Network Rail actually suggested (n 2015) running a Lowestoft to Yarmouth service by reinstalling a chord to the south of Reedham. Seems somewhat fanciful (given the potential passenger numbers and pressure on NR in its many major proejects). Anytying come of this?

I grew up in Oulton Broad and used to go to Great Yarmouth a lot. It used to take a bus into Lowestoft town centre and then one of the various bus routes to Yarmouth. I always used to aim for the 600 express as it went straight up the A12 to Gorleston. Most buses went via the coast but one route went inland through villages such as Blundeston and Lound but they all took quite some time. A direct train from Oulton Broad North to Yarmouth would have been really useful for me. Oulton Broad is quite a large area and I think many people would have made use of it. The only downside is that Yarmouth station is a little bit out of the way from the town centre and particularly the seafront. Back then, the Eastern Counties bus station was right on the seafront and all buses went there via the town centre. The other problem is the traffic congestion would have been significantly increased from the level crossing gates being closed more at Oulton Broad North. It was always bad anyway back in the 80s/90s when I was living there with just the Norwich trains coming through.

 

[Ianno87]

Interestingly, it says Network Rail actually suggested (n 2015) running a Lowestoft to Yarmouth service by reinstalling a chord to the south of Reedham. Seems somewhat fanciful (given the potential passenger numbers and pressure on NR in its many major proejects). Anytying come of this?

I *think* that was from a conceptual exercise about that time called "Retiming Britain's Railways" (i.e. a Taktfahrplan-type approach to timetabling with a big shopping list of infrastructure) - it certainly used to be on the NR website (Wessex was also done).

So not made up...but very, very conceptual and virtually never to see the light of day.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I *think* that was from a conceptual exercise about that time called "Retiming Britain's Railways" (i.e. a Taktfahrplan-type approach to timetabling with a big shopping list of infrastructure) - it certainly used to be on the NR website (Wessex was also done).

So not made up...but very, very conceptual and virtually never to see the light of day.

There was a lot of work done on this , a good while ago - (off topic a bit) , but a national "Takt" is not really the answer. Huge resource implications for "theoretical" - get anywhere with minimum changes - small scale ones like that done on the Snow Hill lines , and ATW have some benefit.

Anyway - I see no purpose in a shuttle to serve Berney Arms ...there are far more critical area that need attention. One should maybe challenge the length of this planned or proposed block as a starter. Not exactly the RER is it ?

 

[philthetube]

I was waiting for Philthetube to come back on this .... but he hasn't. The impression I got from his post was that it could easily mean more like 100% or more.
Nonetheless, as Ianno87 implied - the vast majority are probably not in winter, and are purely leisure travellers, so will not be put out in any serious way.

Slightly OT - I noticed that the Wiki entry for Lowestoft railway station is extraordinarily well done (assuming it is accurate, that is). I wonder if any cotributors post on here? Congrats to you if you do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowestoft_railway_station

Interestingly, it says Network Rail actually suggested (n 2015) running a Lowestoft to Yarmouth service by reinstalling a chord to the south of Reedham. Seems somewhat fanciful (given the potential passenger numbers and pressure on NR in its many major proejects). Anytying come of this?

I would have thought at least 100% more, It is not uncommon for walking groups to travel to there and walk to another station, usually with a Yarmouth ticket, because of the service groups are never going to return to the station, to catch toe one train, long walk if you miss it.

 

[Bald Rick]

Of course not. It was utter tripe talked up no doubt in the pub after they'd had 20 pints each at least. It included a new station at Ely North Junction, diverting the Peterborough-Ipswich to Newmarket (via yet another reinstated curve) to connect with Cambridge-Ipswich services & there was to be another pie in the sky new station at Reedham Swing Bridge Junction with all local services running half hourly ramping up to every 15mins metro style from Brundall

I normally like what you say, but this is utter rubbish.

It was 12 bottles of wine, not 20 pints

 

[dk1]

I normally like what you say, but this is utter rubbish.

It was 12 bottles of wine, not 20 pints

And the red stuff at that

 

[2HAP]

Slightly OT - I noticed that the Wiki entry for Lowestoft railway station is extraordinarily well done (assuming it is accurate, that is). I wonder if any cotributors post on here? Congrats to you if you do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowestoft_railway_station

Interestingly, it says Network Rail actually suggested (n 2015) running a Lowestoft to Yarmouth service by reinstalling a chord to the south of Reedham. Seems somewhat fanciful (given the potential passenger numbers and pressure on NR in its many major proejects). Anytying come of this?

I'm an admin on the English language Wikipedia. Not edited that article, although I have edited the Wherry Lines article.

 

[Class 170101]

Not exactly a lot of notice for intending passengers and it should be pointed out that although Berney Arms will be the only station to be completely closed there are journeys from Cantly and Reedham to Great Yarmouth and vice versa that presumably will have to travel via Norwich (Brundall) or Lowestoft and a service bus.

All I will say is its not a lot of notice for a six month closure and seems to reflect very badly on NR regardless of how busy the route is. Is this now standard practise for NR to get things done?

 

[adrock1976]

Slightly off topic here:

Could somebody in Norfolk or Suffolk tell me how Great Yarmouth sometimes has the "Great" dropped off? Also, is this just a local thing, or is this more widespread?

I am aware that there is a Yarmouth on the Isle of Wight.

 

[eastdyke]

Not exactly a lot of notice for intending passengers and it should be pointed out that although Berney Arms will be the only station to be completely closed there are journeys from Cantly and Reedham to Great Yarmouth and vice versa that presumably will have to travel via Norwich (Brundall) or Lowestoft and a service bus.
All I will say is its not a lot of notice for a six month closure and seems to reflect very badly on NR regardless of how busy the route is. Is this now standard practise for NR to get things done?

I don't have a special problem with the notice, the start date (20th October) has given 6 weeks to plan.
I do have a slight issue with the dates for the overall line closure for 9 days from the same date. Also from the OP link:

For the main nine days of work in October there will be significant disruption, with the lines from Norwich to Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft shut with a rail replacement bus service in place between Saturday, October 20, and Sunday, October 28.

Coincides with both the Suffolk Schools and the Norfolk Schools half-term
And the Norwich Beer Festival

 

[tbtc]

what is it that will take six whole months to complete on a single track railway with no passing loops. You can virtually see from one end to the other given how straight and flat the line is!

Six months and SIXTY EIGHT MILLION QUID to re-signal eight miles?

When the only intermediate station only sees a couple of departing passengers per day (on average)?

But people will still tell me that these nasty private companies are the reason why rail subsidies are so high and it's only privatisation that has made the railway look inefficient...

 

[eastdyke]

You are right it is £68m.
But the work is rather more extensive than on the line to be closed for 6 months:
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...lia/norwich-yarmouth-lowestoft-re-signalling/

We’re upgrading signalling across Norwich, Yarmouth and Lowestoft between October 2017 and Spring 2019.
This £68m investment to upgrade the signals is a vital aspect of our railway upgrade plan to provide a safe, reliable and efficient railway fit for the 21st century.
Our re-signalling project will improve:

• overall safety and reliability of the railway
• operational flexibility
• level crossing safety
• sustainability and efficiency using modern technology
• the duration of level crossing road closures reducing delays for road users.

 

[Bald Rick]

Six months and SIXTY EIGHT MILLION QUID to re-signal eight miles?

When the only intermediate station only sees a couple of departing passengers per day (on average)?

But people will still tell me that these nasty private companies are the reason why rail subsidies are so high and it's only privatisation that has made the railway look inefficient...

I can’t tell you how much ‘constructive debate’ there has been around the price of this. But as @eastdyke says, the £68m is for the whole lot from Norwich to Gt Yarmouth and Lowestoft, including several controlled level crossings at £3m a pop.

 

[LAX54]

Quite a bit of rationalisation at Reedham Junction, there will be a signal C/E of the Up Platform, I assume this will be a Main Aspect ? It will be YL8349, if this allows access to the Lowestoft line and not just Yarmouth, then the possibilty is there for Yarmouth to Lowestoft services maybe.
Points will be reduced to one main crossover (927) and a set to split to Yar or Low. (928)

edit...
(Just looking 8349 and 8353 which is C/E Down Platform, both have a slot release from Reedham Bridge)

 

[dk1]

Slightly off topic here:

Could somebody in Norfolk or Suffolk tell me how Great Yarmouth sometimes has the "Great" dropped off? Also, is this just a local thing, or is this more widespread?

I am aware that there is a Yarmouth on the Isle of Wight.

Locally just known as Yarmouth. BR didn't add the 'Great' until the 90s either. It was known simply as this after the closure of South Town station in 1970 when the 'Vauxhall' was dropped too.

 

[Bald Rick]

Quite a bit of rationalisation at Reedham Junction, there will be a signal C/E of the Up Platform, I assume this will be a Main Aspect ? It will be YL8349, if this allows access to the Lowestoft line and not just Yarmouth, then the possibilty is there for Yarmouth to Lowestoft services maybe.
Points will be reduced to one main crossover (927) and a set to split to Yar or Low. (928)

edit...
(Just looking 8349 and 8353 which is C/E Down Platform, both have a slot release from Reedham Bridge)

Excellent! The back of envelope drawing from 10 years ago comes to life!

(I hope the speeds through the junction and by the box are raised)

 

[Essexman]

Perhaps they could bring back the old Berney Arms signal box that is now at Mangapps Farm museum.
It was only used in the summer, to increase capacity for the many special trains taking holidaymakers to Great Yarmouth.

 

[dosxuk]

Slightly off topic here:

Could somebody in Norfolk or Suffolk tell me how Great Yarmouth sometimes has the "Great" dropped off? Also, is this just a local thing, or is this more widespread?

If you visit, you'll understand

 

[TheEdge]

Could somebody in Norfolk or Suffolk tell me how Great Yarmouth sometimes has the "Great" dropped off? Also, is this just a local thing, or is this more widespread?

Frankly social services should be called to take Great away from Yarmouth, its abusive to keep using it