Northern 150s to Nottingham

[DanTrain]

I’ve noticed a couple of times recently that Northern have been running 150s down to Nottingham, both as single units and one I saw today was leading a 158 (even odder as they normally run 2 car). Is there a reason for this, are they short of 158s at the moment, or is it just due to engineering works or something?

Dan

 

[PHILIPE]

I’ve noticed a couple of times recently that Northern have been running 150s down to Nottingham, both as single units and one I saw today was leading a 158 (even odder as they normally run 2 car). Is there a reason for this, are they short of 158s at the moment, or is it just due to engineering works or something?

Dan

Although I can't explain the details of recent happenings, 150s have frequently run to Nottingham from Leeds

 

[Kite159]

Heck last Saturday (7th) there was a pair of 153s on a Leeds - Nottingham service (departed Sheffield around 10:05)

 

[DanTrain]

Heck last Saturday (7th) there was a pair of 153s on a Leeds - Nottingham service (departed Sheffield around 10:05)

Sounds like a fun ride .

I hadn’t realised this was fairly regular, I’ve only ever seen non-158s in the last few weeks.

 

[cactustwirly]

Not a new thing because of the Northern random unit generator.
But since the timetable change, the Nottingham's interwork with the Lincoln services.

 

[capital12]

Heck last Saturday (7th) there was a pair of 153s on a Leeds - Nottingham service (departed Sheffield around 10:05)

You were lucky it was a pair, a couple of Tuesdays ago there was a single 153 heading to Nottingham from Sheffield at around 1700!

 

[DanTrain]

Not a new thing because of the Northern random unit generator.
But since the timetable change, the Nottingham's interwork with the Lincoln services.

Oh ok, that might well be part of it - I say a 158 heading off to Lincoln recently too, thought it was odd.

You were lucky it was a pair, a couple of Tuesdays ago there was a single 153 heading to Nottingham from Sheffield at around 1700!

It's these new 'Northern Connect' routes, they want to make people really appreciate the new stock when it arrives .

 

[alansheppard77]

Heck last Saturday (7th) there was a pair of 153s on a Leeds - Nottingham service (departed Sheffield around 10:05)

anything is better than a 150

 

[Kite159]

anything is better than a 150

Send in a Merseytravel refurbished 142

 

[Harpers Tate]

anything is better than a 150

I agree with that assessment, and I include 14xs in my judgement. Noisy cramped, dismal exterior view, nothing redeeming at all. Many of the contemporary electrics of similar construction suffer the same (except noise, of course).

 

[edwin_m]

Don't think 14x are cleared to Nottingham.

 

[Adam0984]

Don't think 14x are cleared to Nottingham.

Correct because the the signalling beyond Chesterfield is done by axle counters and 14Xs don’t have enough lol

 

[leo knight]

The most likely scenario is that the 2 car class 158s are being released for refurbishment with 2 at a time and driver training on class 158s at Heaton but I could be wrong.

 

[_toommm_]

150s are often visitors on the Notttingham route since the timetable change. The 158s are being stretched as they now go out to Lincoln too. Compounded with the driver training done on them and the 2020 PRM miss, there's not enough at the moment for them to run the services planned for them.

Another contender is the Leeds to Man. Vic. services which I've seen use a 150 too - another uncomfortable ride no doubt.

 

[Geeves]

Correct because the the signalling beyond Chesterfield is done by axle counters and 14Xs don’t have enough lol

That seems odd because all of Vic is now axle counters and it does not seem to be a problem? I guess maybe the technology is has improved which is unlucky for every where else and lucky for Nottingham!

 

[edwin_m]

Pacers have been around far longer than the current signalling south of Chesterfield but have never been allowed further south. I think it's down to nobody ever having needed to get them cleared rather than some fundamental incompatibility. Possibly the local management of BR at the time was opposed on the grounds that the Midlands has few of the short-distance diesel services that Pacers were intended for (even if many ended up doing other things).

 

[route101]

Yeah seen an ex scotrail 158 at Lincoln other week . Had a 158 up from Nottingham , old school inside .
150s with commuter style layout ,prefer 156

 

[louis97]

That seems odd because all of Vic is now axle counters and it does not seem to be a problem? I guess maybe the technology is has improved which is unlucky for every where else and lucky for Nottingham!

I would not read anything into that post. Chesterfield station itself and the approaches from Sheffield are also fitted with axle counters. The station area and the Erewash were all resignalled with axle counters around a similar time so I can't see any issue with that particular installation. Pacers have "no published clearances" on the Erewash so it is entirely likely there has just never been any reason to clear them down there.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Axle counters: surely all the "system" has to know is how many are expected, and compare that to how many are detected. Or, to put it another way, what is the (axle counter) difference between 4x Pacer Cars and 2 x 15x cars? Or between a standard Pacer 2-set and a 153? And how could any system allow one but prevent the other.

 

[Skymonster]

Axle counters: surely all the "system" has to know is how many are expected, and compare that to how many are detected. Or, to put it another way, what is the (axle counter) difference between 4x Pacer Cars and 2 x 15x cars? Or between a standard Pacer 2-set and a 153? And how could any system allow one but prevent the other.

Nope, the 'system' counts axles at the start and end of each section. If the number recorded at the start and end are the same, the section is empty. If it's different the section is occupied.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Sorry, wasn't clear. Expected by the end should = detected at the start is what I meant. The rest still applies.

 

[tommy_train]

Correct because the the signalling beyond Chesterfield is done by axle counters and 14Xs don’t have enough lol

That is hilarious! I actually laughed out loud and woke my partner.
This little factoid joke will probably have me laughing next time I am on a 14x; yet another reason for people to not sit next to me on a packed service.

 

[Eccles1983]

Correct because the the signalling beyond Chesterfield is done by axle counters and 14Xs don’t have enough lol

I have read some nonsense on here but this is the best.

I'd never darken this place again after this utter rubbish.

 

[43096]

That is hilarious! I actually laughed out loud and woke my partner.
This little factoid will probably have me laughing next time I am on a 14x; yet another reason for people to not sit next to me on a packed service.

It’s not a “factoid”, it’s a joke....

 

[tommy_train]

It’s not a “factoid”, it’s a joke....

Edited accordingly.

I know nothing about signalling or how track block occupancy is determined, so counting the number of wheels passing onto the track at the signal doesn't initially seem like an absurd system. Upon further consideration, the number of axles is not relevant; simply the presence of a single axle/wheel on a section of track signifies occupancy.

I don't know how signalling is carried out, but regardless, it still made me laugh.

 

[edwin_m]

I know nothing about signalling or how track block occupancy is determined, so counting the number of wheels passing onto the track at the signal doesn't initially seem like an absurd system. Upon further consideration, the number of axles is not relevant; simply the presence of a single axle/wheel on a section of track signifies occupancy.

That's exactly how an axle counter works! It needs to count the number of axles rather than simply detecting the first one, so it can confirm that the whole train has left the section.

 

[krus_aragon]

In the words of a reporter during the Falklands War: "I counted them out, and I counted them all back."

 

[tommy_train]

That's exactly how an axle counter works! It needs to count the number of axles rather than simply detecting the first one, so it can confirm that the whole train has left the section.

Ah, so it counts them "on" at the start of the section of track, and then counts them "off" at the end of the section of track?

 

[IanXC]

Ah, so it counts them "on" at the start of the section of track, and then counts them "off" at the end of the section of track?

Yep. As compared to a Track Circuit, which detects the presence of a train by the wheels and axles completing the circuit between the two rails.

 

[tommy_train]

Yep. As compared to a Track Circuit, which detects the presence of a train by the wheels and axles completing the circuit between the two rails.

Thanks!