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Idea: Metrolink down Manchester's Oxford/Wilmslow Road

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geoffk

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Finally, it has been my view for a while that the best way to support development of Metrolink would be to grant the local authority the power to charge a city tax on parking spaces in Central Manchester. They could use this money to double deck more car parks at their existing sites, and to ensure that all of their existing car parks remain free.
Powers already exist and have been used in Nottingham. The Workplace Parking Levy is a congestion charge designed to encourage Nottingham's employers who provide 11 or more workplace parking places to reduce the amount of free parking they provide to staff and switch to other modes of transport. The levy raises £9 million a year which is used to fund improvement to public transport.
 
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Greybeard33

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Modern day thinking is that it's often cheaper to do this than to faff about coupling and uncoupling. LUL learnt it years ago, and recently the innersuburban Southern network has been recast on the same basis.
And indeed Metrolink double sets normally remain coupled all day. In contrast to Merseyrail practice.
 

dggar

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Connectivity to Manchester Airport is crowned upon in parts of this forum!
It'd be an option. My objection to overserving the Airport by way of rail specifically is the effects on the Castlefield line - this would obviously not affect that.

Irony is wasted here. the 43 already runs to the airport, as anyone observing southbound buses on Oxford road would know.
 

Starmill

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Powers already exist and have been used in Nottingham. The Workplace Parking Levy is a congestion charge designed to encourage Nottingham's employers who provide 11 or more workplace parking places to reduce the amount of free parking they provide to staff and switch to other modes of transport. The levy raises £9 million a year which is used to fund improvement to public transport.
True! I was actually thinking about commercial parking companies, but this is also an excellent avenue to go down.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Maybe the Czechs have wider roads than central Manchester?
Much like Manchester, Prague has a mixture of wider streets and rather narrow roads that form key routes in and out of the central districts. Prague also has several steep gradients, being in a more pronounced river valley than Manchester is. In particular there's a stretch of shared single-carriageway road/tramway which weaves up the hillside from the old town around a series of hairpin turns. Again though, the exceptional public transport as seen in Prague is easier to achieve if the tramway was put in decades ago.
 

507 001

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Trams with multiple short articulations, like the Edinburgh Urbos, are optimised for "streetcar" type systems, rather than segregated light rail like Metrolink. They typically have axle-less fixed bogies to give a 100% low floor saloon. The trade-off is worse ride quality and lower top speed than a conventional or Jacobs bogie. The Edinburgh vehicles are limited to 70km/h, versus 90km/h for the Manchester M5000s and 100km/h for most tram-trains.

This type of tram would be inappropriate for the high floor/high platform Metrolink system.

80KM/H for an M5000.

It would, but I see no particular reason why there couldn't be a 4-car version (three articulations, or even conventional bogies in the middle) of the present tram. One with 3 articulations would be a bit shorter than the present double tram by virtue of less wasted space.

The main problem you have is the depots which are both extensively set up for 29m vehicles.
 

Bucephalus

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IMG_20180901_025743.png IMG_20180901_023503.png IMG_20180901_025355.png The perfect excuse to crack open a bottle of single malt crayola...

To spare your eyes:

south down london road from Piccadilly station, west under mancunian way, south down Oxford rd, east along Grafton street, then Plymouth grove, a little Stockport rd until newton ave, onto the Manchester - Stockport heavy rail, along heaton rd onto Wellington rd, off again to terminate at mersey square.

Stops would be: brook st, chorlton upon medlock, MRI, Elizabeth gaskell house, longsight, levenshulme, crossley park, heaton chapel, mersey square

(In retrospect, the use of upper brook street instead of Oxford rd would have been better)

IMG_20180901_025743.png IMG_20180901_023503.png
 

LOL The Irony

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View attachment 51923 View attachment 51924 View attachment 51925 The perfect excuse to crack open a bottle of single malt crayola...

To spare your eyes:

south down london road from Piccadilly station, west under mancunian way, south down Oxford rd, east along Grafton street, then Plymouth grove, a little Stockport rd until newton ave, onto the Manchester - Stockport heavy rail, along heaton rd onto Wellington rd, off again to terminate at mersey square.

Stops would be: brook st, chorlton upon medlock, MRI, Elizabeth gaskell house, longsight, levenshulme, crossley park, heaton chapel, mersey square

(In retrospect, the use of upper brook street instead of Oxford rd would have been better)

View attachment 51923 View attachment 51924
At least take it to Stockport station...
 

Old Yard Dog

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I wish there had been fast trams down Oxford Road when I was a student in the late 1960's. My hall of residence was on Palatine Road in West Didsbury and it took an eternity, even then, for the buses to get to the university. And it was 1/9 single.

The hall eventually had to close as nobody wanted to stay there as Oxford Road, ironically, was clogged every morning by dozens of buses serving the many student halls in Fallowfield.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I wish there had been fast trams down Oxford Road when I was a student in the late 1960's. My hall of residence was on Palatine Road in West Didsbury and it took an eternity, even then, for the buses to get to the university. And it was 1/9 single.

The hall eventually had to close as nobody wanted to stay there as Oxford Road, ironically, was clogged every morning by dozens of buses serving the many student halls in Fallowfield.
Was there ever a "first generation" tramway down there? I'm very envious of those European cities (on both sides of the "Iron Curtain") who had the foresight to reject the short-termism that saw all but one of our municipal tramways ripped up.
 

daodao

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Was there ever a "first generation" tramway down there? I'm very envious of those European cities (on both sides of the "Iron Curtain") who had the foresight to reject the short-termism that saw all but one of our municipal tramways ripped up.

Tram routes 41 and 42 ran from West Didsbury to slightly different termini in the city centre and were abandoned in February 1939. The route numbers were transferred to replacement bus services and are still in use today for essentially the same route. However, route 42 now deviates at Withington (Red Lion) to run via Didsbury Village to Parrs Wood, following a service redesign in the late 1960s, when the all-day limited stop buses along Wilmslow Road were withdrawn. At the same time, route 41, which had been extended to Southern Cemetery (and at times to Chorlton) on withdrawal of the trams, to cover abandoned circular tram routes 45/46, was diverted to Sale in lieu of former limited stop bus route 50.

The frequency of bus routes 41 and 42 remains very high, in contrast to most former tram routes in the Manchester conurbation. Some now have minimal or no bus services whatsoever - examples include parts of Lloyd Street, Platt Lane, Slade Lane and Seymour Grove, and Deansgate in the city centre.

Wilmslow Road could certainly justify conversion back to a tram route in terms of passenger numbers, but some sections of the route are quite congested and/or narrow, in particular the Khyber pass and the centre of Withington, so I doubt it would be feasible. The planners have not made any provision either at St Peter's Square nor at West Didsbury for such a tram route to be linked to the existing Metrolink network.
 
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rebmcr

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At the same time, route 41, which had been extended to Southern Cemetery (and at times to Chorlton) on withdrawal of the trams, to cover abandoned circular tram routes 45/46, was diverted to Sale in lieu of former limited stop bus route 50.

Are you sure? 46 is still a circular bus route via Southern Cemetary.
 

PR1Berske

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The planners have not made any provision either at St Peter's Square nor at West Didsbury for such a tram route to be linked to the existing Metrolink network.
Which is why there will never be trams along Oxford Road!
 

daodao

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Are you sure? 46 is still a circular bus route via Southern Cemetary.

Circular bus services 46/47, largely mirroring former tram routes 45/46, were introduced about 15-20 years ago by Stagecoach, and were still extant in 2008, but have subsequently been withdrawn. The new tram routes along the former South District line of the Midland Railway, and the route to the airport branching off it at Mauldeth Road West, have had an adverse impact on bus patronage in parts of South Manchester, both north of the River Mersey and in Wythenshawe. This has led to significant service cuts, the latest being the curtailment at Parrs Wood from the end of October of long-established Arriva route 130, formerly NWRCC route 29.
 

Bletchleyite

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Which is why there will never be trams along Oxford Road!

Given that in the 1970s people would have said there would never be trams in Manchester again, never say never. However, I think it is realistically low priority because the people using the bus services are by and large OK with them, so there is not significant political pressure to change things.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Given that in the 1970s people would have said there would never be trams in Manchester again, never say never. However, I think it is realistically low priority because the people using the bus services are by and large OK with them, so there is not significant political pressure to change things.
Though unless electric/battery/hydrogen/bionic duckweed (delete as appropriate) bus technology comes on leaps and bounds in the next few years, the political environment may well change...
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Though unless electric/battery/hydrogen/bionic duckweed (delete as appropriate) bus technology comes on leaps and bounds in the next few years, the political environment may well change...

Noting that Manchester City Council has been a Labour stronghold for many years, I cannot foresee any change in political environment there in the years to come.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Noting that Manchester City Council has been a Labour stronghold for many years, I cannot foresee any change in political environment there in the years to come.
I was referring to the broader political environment in terms of environmental policy with regard to air quality and related health issues, rather than a party political situation (and national rather than local). But I'm fairly certain you knew that anyway- you're a smart fella.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I note that battery power is cited as a traction mode, but also noting worries concerning environmental issues, does the battery manufacturing process and its residual post-manufacturing processes have any environmental concerns that are worthy of discussion?
 

Clip

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I note that battery power is cited as a traction mode, but also noting worries concerning environmental issues, does the battery manufacturing process and its residual post-manufacturing processes have any environmental concerns that are worthy of discussion?

They do indeed and maybe for another thread - I think theres already one on the 230 thread - but id still go for electrified overhead than battery on the road in question
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Let us all be thankful that all the disruption that will be caused by the physical laying down of tram lines along a major Manchester thoroughfare such as Oxford Road (remember what happened during such works on 2CC along Corporation Street and Cross Street) instead of using side roads such as Upper Brook Street seems not to be on the immediate horizon.
 
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