Is Grayling the worst Secretary of State for Transport ever?

[Typhoon]

lol well seeing as though he hasn't managed to muster up a coach and horses yet despite being the Transport Secretary......

Mr Grayling would insist on single driver staffing, while the coachman would insist on someone riding shotgun.
The coach would be held up by mud on the road.
Just when it was approaching the objections, the coach owner would decide it wasn't making enough money and hand back the contract.

 

[Typhoon]

Leyland didn't learn it's lesson that customers didn't want integral vehicles {at that time} and went on to waste most of the 70's designing the Titan... only when their customers went to other suppliers {invariably British} did Leyland hurriedly redesign the Titan to enable it to take outside bodywork and therefore birthing the Olympian.

Where you get the idea that most or even many customers went to foreign suppliers for their buses I don't know...apart from Leyland's models the main DD's during the 70's were the MCW Metrobus and Dennis Dominator {both British} and the Ailsa B55 which was Scottish- though admittedly with Volvo backing... it wasn't until the early 80's that Volvo took over the Ailsa completely.

And NBC were quite happy with the Bristol VR, thank you very much.

Outside of London, operators took Titans in penny numbers.

 

[bnm]

My worst three:

Ernest Marples. Blatantly enriched himself. Hired Beeching.

Barbara Castle. Accelerated rail closures and added more that weren't in the Beeching Report. Some of which were decisions of the upmost folly. Even for the time.

John Macgregor. For ushering in privatisation.

 

[Busaholic]

Grayling was probably the most incompetent Lord Chancellor in the annals of history, though whether that was because of his non-legal background is a moot point. There have been some real stinkers as Lord Chancellor over time, but nasty rather than incompetent. Grayling probably doesn't have it in him to be really nasty..... the problem is he doesn't have it in him to be a real anything. The worst Transport Secretary? If you believe tomorrow's newspapers, indeed so: the Mail and the Guardian find something on which they can agree.

 

[LowLevel]

I think what is certain is that he is presiding over an all round farce. The seeds may not have been sown entirely by him but he certainly is not getting to grips with a solution, whether we are referring to public transport or the roads.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I think what is certain is that he is presiding over an all round farce. The seeds may not have been sown entirely by him but he certainly is not getting to grips with a solution, whether we are referring to public transport or the roads.

well let's be honest he's not even politically competent is he? with the Thameslink farce he hasn't tried to blame the previous Labour Government who sanctioned the project!

 

[LOL The Irony]

As well as many rail cuts Barbara castle also single handedly wiped out the UK bus industry by introducing the 50% grants on new omo (No conductors) buses which increased demand beyond what Leyland and others couldnt meet so enter Volvo scania etc.

Volvo & Scania just made a better product. It's the same reason Siemens won the Thameslink & Tube orders over Bombardier.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Actually, One person operated Double Deckers were legalised in 1966, Bus Grant was introduced with the Transport act 1968 and The Leyland National went into volume production 1971-1972.

To say that Barbara Castle was responsible for the downfall of Leyland is absolute nonsense.... Leyland's problems started because a)it misread what the market wanted and would want and b) then tried to dictate what it's customers could have... eg most customers of the Bristol RE wanted to continue buying them, but because Leyland {with it's NBC} partner had spent so much money designing the National the RE was withdrawn from sale... Leyland didn't learn it's lesson that customers didn't want integral vehicles {at that time} and went on to waste most of the 70's designing the Titan... only when their customers went to other suppliers {invariably British} did Leyland hurriedly redesign the Titan to enable it to take outside bodywork and therefore birthing the Olympian.

Where you get the idea that most or even many customers went to foreign suppliers for their buses I don't know...apart from Leyland's models the main DD's during the 70's were the MCW Metrobus and Dennis Dominator {both British} and the Ailsa B55 which was Scottish- though admittedly with Volvo backing... it wasn't until the early 80's that Volvo took over the Ailsa completely. As for single decks, the main alternatives to the National once Leyland had withdrawn all other citybus layout single deckers were the Leopard and Reliance... both Leyland products.

This entire post hit's the nail on the head. Not even BR could stand Leyland's incompetence to the point that the 143's & 144's now have nothing Leyland in them.

 

[muddythefish]

My worst three:

Ernest Marples. Blatantly enriched himself. Hired Beeching.

Barbara Castle. Accelerated rail closures and added more that weren't in the Beeching Report. Some of which were decisions of the upmost folly. Even for the time.

John Macgregor. For ushering in privatisation.

Castle also introduced the concept of the social railway, which saved many lines that might otherwise have closed.

As for Grayling, he's not known as "failing Grayling" for nothing. Chaos and ineptitude in every department he's worked in.

However even he pales against Marples, who should have been in a court of law both for the blatant corruption in which he planned the wholesale destruction of the rail system while at the same time enriching himself and his friends in the road industry.

He was also a tax cheat.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Castle also introduced the concept of the social railway, which saved many lines that might otherwise have closed.

As for Grayling, he's not known as "failing Grayling" for nothing. Chaos and ineptitude in every department he's worked in.

However even he pales against Marples, who should have been in a court of law both for the blatant corruption in which he planned the wholesale destruction of the rail system while at the same time enriching himself and his friends in the road industry.

He was also a tax cheat.

Well his response to the damning report into the chaotic May timetable change says it all really... "not my fault" oh really? so who's the minister responsible for the railways? who appointed those in the Government quangos that messed up? who was it that didn't ensure proper oversight of Government lead {and tax-payer funded} infrastructure projects? of course it was Mr Grayling.. Minister for Transport.

Still what do you expect from a man that looks like a smug, but startled, Cheshire cat? He certainly has a face that says "please punch me"

 

[muddythefish]

? He certainly has a face that says "please punch me"

Very good. Where do I apply ?

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Very good. Where do I apply ?

lol via Thameslink customer services department... but I warn you now there's a 6 month waiting list for your turn in the queue {so about the same length of time you'll wait for a Thameslink train that's on time and not had it's stopping pattern changed at the last minute}

 

[GrimShady]

Two Jags and Cecil Parkinson weren't very good either.

 

[Busaholic]

Two Jags and Cecil Parkinson weren't very good either.

At least those two had the excuse they were engaged in extra-curricular activities : you can't imagine Grayling ever getting the energy together to emulate them!

 

[mushroomchow]

(Copying over my rant from the previously locked thread - here goes) :

I disagree with a lot of what Lord Adonis says nowadays, but I'd give my left kidney to have him back in the post. At least he actually understood what trains do. Now we've got a man who ignores every consultation and warning that comes to him and pushes ahead with:

• unwanted service route changes including a number of direct London services being cut and other services curtailed or split
• over-engineered and therefore over-budget electrification
• the subsequent cancellation of other much-needed electrification projects
• disastrous timetable changes forced through by the DfT without the slightest consideration of TOC and public concern raised in consultation
• a forced move towards bi-mode rolling stock to gloss over the chronic under-investment in electrification.
• a multi-billion pound cash pit in HS2 which, whether you agree with it or not, has not even begun construction yet despite sucking investment from the rest of the rail budget, a trend which will continue for at least another decade (disclaimer - I actually agree with it's construction, I just think it's disingenuous to claim it's not having an effect on the DfT's spending elsewhere while other much-needed network upgrades are being curtailed or cancelled left right and centre)
• The blind ignorance and failure to acknowledge the Government's complicity in the latest East Coast franchise fiasco.

I'm only in my twenties so I don't have that much to work with in living memory, but there's no contest - Grayling is a joke of a Transport Secretary - not just for rail but roads as well, and comfortably the worst I remember. A few shiny bypasses do not gloss over the complete lack of joined-up thinking and the DfT's abandonment of duty in rolling out the Major Road Network (MRN) then leaving local authorities to clear up the mess and work it out themselves. Hearing him brag about that in particular at the conference and take credit for the MRN's quote-unquote "progress" left a very sour taste in my mouth, because the DfT if anything have hindered the chances of it being a success through - you guessed it - regular dismissal of recommendations and consultation concerns, in doing so defeating the point of creating the joined-up, consistent network they claim to want.

He needs to go and never infect a post of government office again. The man is a tool, and by all accounts (including from those I know in my organisation who work with and regularly meet him) repeatedly ignores the advice of stakeholders, partners and third parties.

 

[furnessvale]

I'm only in my twenties so I don't have that much to work with in living memory, but there's no contest - Grayling is a joke of a Transport Secretary - not just for rail but roads as well, and comfortably the worst I remember. A few shiny bypasses do not gloss over the complete lack of joined-up thinking and the DfT's abandonment of duty in rolling out the Major Road Network (MRN) then leaving local authorities to clear up the mess and work it out themselves.

Nothing in that part sentence marks him out as any different from the majority of transport secretaries in my living memory.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I'd give my left kidney to have him back in the post.

I'd give my left kidney to have him get off twitter. He preached about how he "saved" East Coast despite the fact he forced a worse deal for the Taxpayer on National Express than they were offering because of his "morals".

 

[zuriblue]

Personally I'd add Ridley to the list. The swivel-eyed free market zealot that inflicted bus deregulation on the country and prohibited cross-subsidisy.

 

[matt_world2004]

Isnt he only staying in the position to block sadiq khans manifesto.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Isnt he only staying in the position to block sadiq khans manifesto.

More about maintaining a Brexit balance in cabinet.

 

[Bevan Price]

I know the minister always gets the blame, but I suspect that many of the problems arise from civil service attitudes / stupidity, etc.

 

[Typhoon]

I know the minister always gets the blame, but I suspect that many of the problems arise from civil service attitudes / stupidity, etc.

I don't disagree. However:-

• It is the football manager that gets sacked, not the players. It is the way of the world.
• The Rail Minister has been completely anonymous, all ire has been heaped on the Secretary of State.
• You would think that 'Biggest Timetable Change in a Generation' would have 'Banana Skin' written on it in giant flashing yellow fluorescent lights and ministers would be demanding initially weekly, then more frequent reports of progress and potential pitfalls, and meetings with the TOCs and Network Rail to check they are happy. This affected millions, many in London where the national media would be able to have a field day/ week/ month. Self survival says you make trebly sure everything is OK.
• We don't know that any civil servants haven't quietly been moved so they are now responsible for the distribution of paper clips in Warmington-on-Sea.

 

[si404]

Prescott abolished it as a separate department and put all schemes not under construction 'under review' to keep the department occupied for the next few years not bothering him. He also dumped about 2/3rds of trunk road onto local governments as he didn't want to deal with them. He ideologically ignored improving transport.

Darling blocked pretty much every scheme (that had all gone through Prescott's review process) he could and only let schemes get funding when he'd been promoted to the Treasury as Adonis had made the funding preconditions of taking the job and so Brown stopped Darling blocking it. This one wins as he ideologically was actively against improving transport and competent at implementing that.

Marples (if we ignore the corruption), Castle and Ridley all thought they were improving transport - there are some issues with how they did it - but their problem is that they sought to improve things, ie do their job as Minister and weren't incompetent at implementing their plans (unlike Grayling). Better that than apathetic to the idea of Central Government doing Transport (Prescott), or (in Darling's case) actively against improvement.

 

[TheEdge]

Castle and Marples win the poo poo crown.

 

[DarloRich]

• You would think that 'Biggest Timetable Change in a Generation' would have 'Banana Skin' written on it in giant flashing yellow fluorescent lights and ministers would be demanding initially weekly, then more frequent reports of progress and potential pitfalls, and meetings with the TOCs and Network Rail to check they are happy. This affected millions, many in London where the national media would be able to have a field day/ week/ month. Self survival says you make trebly sure everything is OK.

I suspect that did happen but you are reliant on people giving you the truth in those meetings!

 

[Typhoon]

I suspect that did happen but you are reliant on people giving you the truth in those meetings!

I don't doubt they did happen, but were ministers just happy to hear good news? Maybe I am just naturally paranoid but if I was told All Is Well, I would think that I was being mislead on a large scale. There was just too much to go wrong for all to be well. I would show the civil servants, TOCs and Network Rail footage of passenger's reaction to a recent Christmas overshoot on rail maintenance, encourage my special advisors and consultants (on a decent - but not permanent - salary) to dig for dirt and be insisting on a back-up plan. Maybe trebly sure wasn't enough, quadrupally sure maybe!

 

[yorksrob]

Mrs May has just announced another freeze on fuel duty. Now would be an excellent time for Grayling to announce a fares freeze.

 

[Kite159]

Mrs May has just announced another freeze on fuel duty. Now would be an excellent time for Grayling to announce a fares freeze.

Which he won't. Fuel prices have in general increased in the past year, where fuel duty has stayed the same the government has benefited from the extra VAT revenue.

 

[43096]

(Copying over my rant from the previously locked thread - here goes) :

I disagree with a lot of what Lord Adonis says nowadays, but I'd give my left kidney to have him back in the post. At least he actually understood what trains do. Now we've got a man who ignores every consultation and warning that comes to him and pushes ahead with:

• unwanted service route changes including a number of direct London services being cut and other services curtailed or split
• over-engineered and therefore over-budget electrification
• the subsequent cancellation of other much-needed electrification projects
• disastrous timetable changes forced through by the DfT without the slightest consideration of TOC and public concern raised in consultation
• a forced move towards bi-mode rolling stock to gloss over the chronic under-investment in electrification.
• a multi-billion pound cash pit in HS2 which, whether you agree with it or not, has not even begun construction yet despite sucking investment from the rest of the rail budget, a trend which will continue for at least another decade (disclaimer - I actually agree with it's construction, I just think it's disingenuous to claim it's not having an effect on the DfT's spending elsewhere while other much-needed network upgrades are being curtailed or cancelled left right and centre)
• The blind ignorance and failure to acknowledge the Government's complicity in the latest East Coast franchise fiasco.

I'm only in my twenties so I don't have that much to work with in living memory, but there's no contest - Grayling is a joke of a Transport Secretary - not just for rail but roads as well, and comfortably the worst I remember. A few shiny bypasses do not gloss over the complete lack of joined-up thinking and the DfT's abandonment of duty in rolling out the Major Road Network (MRN) then leaving local authorities to clear up the mess and work it out themselves. Hearing him brag about that in particular at the conference and take credit for the MRN's quote-unquote "progress" left a very sour taste in my mouth, because the DfT if anything have hindered the chances of it being a success through - you guessed it - regular dismissal of recommendations and consultation concerns, in doing so defeating the point of creating the joined-up, consistent network they claim to want.

He needs to go and never infect a post of government office again. The man is a tool, and by all accounts (including from those I know in my organisation who work with and regularly meet him) repeatedly ignores the advice of stakeholders, partners and third parties.

So you’d rather have someone useless back in place of someone who is very useless. It’s a bit like having the choice between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

 

[Edders23]

Earnest Marples and Tom Fraser win easily.

marples was in the job out of self interest but I think Barbara Castle did as much damage to the railways in my opinion