Possible plans for Edinburgh Waverley station?

[Waverleystu]

When are the platforms expected to be completed?

 

[och aye]

When are the platforms expected to be completed?

Early 2019 according to NR:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...tland/edinburgh-waverley-platform-extensions/

 

[385001]

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailEGIP/status/1048185566523789312

Platforms 5 & 6 starting to take shape at #Edinburgh #Waverley. Precast units delivered & installed at West end of site & block work walls with brick facing installed at East end. All materials delivered and spoil removed using engineering trains. #EGIP
/

 

[Aictos]

Agreed 15 mph is pitiful, & it also delays main line trains in both directions.
If Chris Green was still in charge in Scotland he would have called in his chief civil engineer & told him to make it 40mph.

Railjock's picture of the junction shows plenty of room for a flyover across the junction at a modern 1 in 35 passenger train gradient.

Every new hillybilly road scheme incorporates many bridges crossing other roads.
Surely just one bridge for rail crossing rail can be provided in the whole of Scotland.
The location looks ideal for it.
It would benefit the ECML as well as Borders trains.

Oh I had forgotten - it's Network Rail in charge.
So 5 years of reports, consultants fees, press releases & then nothing.

I think that's a tad unfair to Network Rail as Network Rail Scotland has actually been more proactive then your bias view of them especially considering how much more has been electrified and at a faster pace then the rest of the UK.

Even under BR, there would have been planning applications to be submitted as would any other organisation would have to do and the fact that you seem to think that Chris Green could just snap his fingers and his will would be done is just silly as if that was the case when he was in charge of NSE then the speed upgrades that Network Rail did on the Southern WCML for example would have happened under his watch as it was, it didn't!

On a more positive note though, it is good to see such progress taking place in Edinburgh.

 

[Trackbedjolly]

Has anyone else noticed that although all the lines through Princes Street Gardens are wired up not all the crossovers have been?
For example there are no wires over the facing crossovers between X Y and Z lines going into Waverley from Haymarket Tunnels; Track maps wrongly show these as electrified.
How much effect will this have on the future flexibilty of movements at the station?

 

[Highlandspring]

All the crossovers in the Gardens are wired.

 

[Trackbedjolly]

Well it does not look like it from the footbridge on the Gardens...

 

[XDM]

I think that's a tad unfair to Network Rail.
Even under BR, there would have been planning applications to be submitted as would any other organisation would have to do and the fact that you seem to think that Chris Green could just snap his fingers and his will would be done is just silly.

I criticised NR for not upgrading the pitiful 15mph speed across the busy ECML to & from the Borders railway when the geometry & location would allow it.
I said Chris Green would have got it raised to a more sensible 40 mph when he was in charge.

The proof;

Chris Green snapped his fingers & a mass of differential higher speed limits appeared in Scotland under his leadership. The chief Engineer did as asked. We still benefit from that.
That task was a lot harder than getting one junction west of Edinburgh
updated to a more sensible 40mph.
The problem now is nobody is Network Rail's master.
It is a monopoly that answers to itself & its poor track record shows the price our railway system pays for that.

 

[Carntyne]

Well it does not look like it from the footbridge on the Gardens...

Well they still are....

 

[najaB]

I criticised NR for not upgrading the pitiful 15mph speed across the busy ECML to & from the Borders railway...

That's not all you posted. I suspect that @Class 403 was referring to this bit:

Surely just one bridge for rail crossing rail can be provided in the whole of Scotland.
The location looks ideal for it.
It would benefit the ECML as well as Borders trains.

Oh I had forgotten - it's Network Rail in charge.
So 5 years of reports, consultants fees, press releases & then nothing.

It's more than a bit disengenuous to pretend that you hadn't written it.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Has anyone else noticed that although all the lines through Princes Street Gardens are wired up not all the crossovers have been?
For example there are no wires over the facing crossovers between X Y and Z lines going into Waverley from Haymarket Tunnels; Track maps wrongly show these as electrified.
How much effect will this have on the future flexibilty of movements at the station?

The entire western throat was remodelled and electrified ahead of the Airdrie-Bathgate scheme, and 334s have used the northern side of the station since the line opened. Before this, the ECML wiring was only for the through platforms and the minimal track required to get to Haymarket South tunnel. The North lines are wired out approximately Haymarket depot now for a handful of peak-time east coast EMU services to Haymarket.

 

[najaB]

The North lines are wired out approximately Haymarket depot now for a handful of peak-time east coast EMU services to Haymarket.

I thought the wires run as far as the crossover to the south lines so that electric services can use platforms 0, 1 and 2 at Haymarket.

 

[Aictos]

When will they fully expect the station to stop looking like a construction site as it has done since 2006 on a continuous basis?

As in everything planned has been fully completed, 2040?

 

[railjock]

When will they fully expect the station to stop looking like a construction site as it has done since 2006 on a continuous basis?

As in everything planned has been fully completed, 2040?

As soon as passenger growth stops, or declines,' I imagine.

 

[Aictos]

That's not all you posted. I suspect that @Class 403 was referring to this bit:
It's more than a bit disengenuous to pretend that you hadn't written it.

Indeed I was, congratulations on seeing it!

 

[Altnabreac]

When will they fully expect the station to stop looking like a construction site as it has done since 2006 on a continuous basis?

As in everything planned has been fully completed, 2040?

I suspect once the current set of works finishes we'll have a pause on works in the station itself for a few years before the Mezzanine works start. The next phase of expansion is likely to focus on Calton tunnels and the eastern approaches rather than the station itself.

But fundamentally if demand keeps growing then Network Rail have to keep trying to meet that demand by increasing capacity. Given usage has increased from 10million passengers per annum to 24 million per annum in the last ten years, imagine what the current user experience would be like if the building works hadn't been carried out?

 

[Highlandspring]

I suspect once the current set of works finishes we'll have a pause on works in the station itself for a few years before the Mezzanine works start.

What are the mezzanine works? There was a period of about a month after they finished the roof and before they started on filming Hollywood blockbusters, moving the escalator and extending platforms 12, 5 & 6 when the place was reasonably complete and presentable!

 

[Altnabreac]

What are the mezzanine works? There was a period of about a month after they finished the roof and before they started on filming Hollywood blockbusters, moving the escalator and extending platforms 12, 5 & 6 when the place was reasonably complete and presentable!

The Mezzanine works are a presumed future phase of capacity expansion at Waverley that might occur in around 5-10 years time. We'll need to see what is proposed by the current Arup masterplanning exercise though and whether the Mezzanine remains as a proposal after that masterplanning.

Basically the idea is that you would move the current shops and circulation area where WHSmith and Boots are up onto a Mezzanine level and have waiting area and circulation space up there as well.

This allows you to extend platforms 14 -17 into the space where WHSmith is to allow longer services and could also allow up to 3 additional through platforms if required.

As I said I expect the next focus of work to be doubling Calton North Tunnel and extra tracks on the eastern approaches to Waverley to improve access from the east. For western throat access improvements at Waverley the next improvement is probably actually the Almond / Dalmeny Chord to better balance demand between the north and south lines at Haymarket. Although it is a good 6 miles from Waverley the works there would directly increase available capacity through the western throat.

Smaller scale improvements could include extending platforms 1, 20, 3, 4 and 10. These simple extensions might be taken forward before the mezzanine works progress.

 

[XDM]

That's not all you posted. I suspect that @Class 403 was referring to this bit:
It's more than a bit disengenuous to pretend that you hadn't written it.

There was no pretence from XDM. Readers would not want a further 6 lines repeated to make the posting even longer, hence omission.

The six lines stated the obvious, the glacially slow progress Network Rail make UK wide, as well as around Haymarket.
Hardly controversial, except to Najab. Many people on the forum lament NR's shocking performance which has been recorded officially in recent reports.

A chance for NR to shine would be to get on with relaying track in the second Waverley east side tunnel, to raise the glacial speed across Portobello junction to the Borders line, & to reinstate the planned Almond/Dalmeny chord which Altnabreac mentions in post 738.

When is the last promised?
My Scotrail colleague tells me it has been withdrawn. Let us hope not true, & that it includes grade separation North of South Gyle.

 

[InOban]

And I don't think they can start on the eastern approaches until they have electrified the Sub to allow trains to come round the back of Edinburgh.

In terms of station facilities, I would hope that the Arup recommend demolition and rebuilding of all buildings on Market St, to provide a proper taxi rank and very-short-stay parking.

 

[47271]

And I don't think they can start on the eastern approaches until they have electrified the Sub to allow trains to come round the back of Edinburgh.

In terms of station facilities, I would hope that the Arup recommend demolition and rebuilding of all buildings on Market St, to provide a proper taxi rank and very-short-stay parking.

Exactly, the current situation with taxis is a shame on the city and should be prioritised above everything else. There's absolutely no point in ever more tourists arriving at ever more platforms if they have to humph their suitcases upstairs because there's only one small lift to cover three levels and then have to deal with the Wacky Races when they reach the street.

Short stay parking is nearly as ridiculous, a 15 minute walk to the basement of the council offices in New Street which risks a £7 charge to pick up someone who didn't qualify me for a disabled badge but was a bit slow - as I discovered last month, I had to get the guy to let me out because a simple pickup took longer than 40 minutes - is hopeless.

 

[route101]

True , been a construction site since at least 2007 at least .

Not seen a 334 on the North side for some time , infact cant remember if i ever have .

XC HST use platform 10.

Only ever seen Virgin trains on 8 and 9 .

XC Voyager in 13 other day .

TPEs 350s often use 14/

 

[NotATrainspott]

True , been a construction site since at least 2007 at least .

Not seen a 334 on the North side for some time , infact cant remember if i ever have .

XC HST use platform 10.

Only ever seen Virgin trains on 8 and 9 .

XC Voyager in 13 other day .

TPEs 350s often use 14/

Here's a Bathgate train using Waverley Platform 20:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G92774/2018/10/09/advanced

And equally, a train using Platform 2 at Haymarket:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G90376/2018/10/09/advanced

Bathgate trains have even used Platform 0 during disruption.

 

[Esker-pades]

True , been a construction site since at least 2007 at least .

Not seen a 334 on the North side for some time , infact cant remember if i ever have .

XC HST use platform 10.

Only ever seen Virgin trains on 8 and 9 .

XC Voyager in 13 other day .

TPEs 350s often use 14/

8 & 9 are used by a lot of services. North Clyde, North Berwick, Virgin Trains, TransPennine, LNER.

 

[route101]

8 & 9 are used by a lot of services. North Clyde, North Berwick, Virgin Trains, TransPennine, LNER.

Often boarded Queen St services there too

 

[route101]

Here's a Bathgate train using Waverley Platform 20:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G92774/2018/10/09/advanced

And equally, a train using Platform 2 at Haymarket:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G90376/2018/10/09/advanced

Bathgate trains have even used Platform 0 during disruption.

I see , come to think it was the Bathgate terminator i saw on that side once

 

[themiller]

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailEGIP/status/1048185566523789312

I've just noticed the steel sleepers in the first photo seem to be spaced at a greater pitch than I remember seeing the concrete ones at the east end. Is this because it's only intended to be occupied by light passenger services at low speed or is it temporary works to get engineering trains in and will be replaced by concrete sleepers in due course?

 

[och aye]

And I don't think they can start on the eastern approaches until they have electrified the Sub to allow trains to come round the back of Edinburgh.

In terms of station facilities, I would hope that the Arup recommend demolition and rebuilding of all buildings on Market St, to provide a proper taxi rank and very-short-stay parking.

The Mezzanine works are a presumed future phase of capacity expansion at Waverley that might occur in around 5-10 years time. We'll need to see what is proposed by the current Arup masterplanning exercise though and whether the Mezzanine remains as a proposal after that masterplanning.

Basically the idea is that you would move the current shops and circulation area where WHSmith and Boots are up onto a Mezzanine level and have waiting area and circulation space up there as well.

This allows you to extend platforms 14 -17 into the space where WHSmith is to allow longer services and could also allow up to 3 additional through platforms if required.

As I said I expect the next focus of work to be doubling Calton North Tunnel and extra tracks on the eastern approaches to Waverley to improve access from the east. For western throat access improvements at Waverley the next improvement is probably actually the Almond / Dalmeny Chord to better balance demand between the north and south lines at Haymarket. Although it is a good 6 miles from Waverley the works there would directly increase available capacity through the western throat.

Smaller scale improvements could include extending platforms 1, 20, 3, 4 and 10. These simple extensions might be taken forward before the mezzanine works progress.

Yup. I don't expect to see any major building work within the station for a good few years after platforms 5 & 6 are completed.

 

[PaulLothian]

I criticised NR for not upgrading the pitiful 15mph speed across the busy ECML to & from the Borders railway when the geometry & location would allow it.
I said Chris Green would have got it raised to a more sensible 40 mph when he was in charge.

The proof;

Chris Green snapped his fingers & a mass of differential higher speed limits appeared in Scotland under his leadership. The chief Engineer did as asked. We still benefit from that.
That task was a lot harder than getting one junction west of Edinburgh
updated to a more sensible 40mph.
The problem now is nobody is Network Rail's master.
It is a monopoly that answers to itself & its poor track record shows the price our railway system pays for that.

As I noted up-thread the reverse cant on the Brunstane line is significant! I used a spirit level app on my phone last week, which showed 3+ degrees of negative cant. It's not just about giving an instruction to increase the speed limit, as I am sure all concerned would recognise. It will be pricey!

 

[railjock]

As I noted up-thread the reverse cant on the Brunstane line is significant! I used a spirit level app on my phone last week, which showed 3+ degrees of negative cant. It's not just about giving an instruction to increase the speed limit, as I am sure all concerned would recognise. It will be pricey!

Presumably it wasn’t always like that?