Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[route:oxford]

I was at Bo'ness today and rode on the battery 230 and chatted with Vivarail staff. They reckon it is suitable for East Kilbride, Maryhill and Mallaig to start with.

How many paths are available back and forth across the Glenfinnan viaduct in a single day?

Is the bay still rail connected and long enough for a 2 car 230?

 

[Fallen Flag]

not on the Vale yet. The unit has been in the shed so there may be static training ongoing.

The first return trip to Bedford was on the 26th September 2018, followed by two return workings on the 1st October, so far it has been out on the 8th and 9th October and it is out again tonight.

 

[Southsider]

I was at Bo'ness today and rode on the battery 230 and chatted with Vivarail staff. They reckon it is suitable for East Kilbride, Maryhill and Mallaig to start with.

East Kilbride surprises me, it's quite a steep climb at various points from Glasgow.

 

[gingertom]

East Kilbride surprises me, it's quite a steep climb at various points from Glasgow.

surprised me too for that same reason. Also there's not much opportunity for charging the thing at EK but it is more or less downhill all the way back and they make extensive use of regenerative braking.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If all the Scottish hoped-for service routes mentioned in this thread come to fruition for Vivarail, how many Class 230 units would be required in total including spare units needed to be put into production? Would new orders be more likely to come first from the Isle of Wight or from Scotland?

How long is the Vivarail existing order book likely to take up their production scheduling, so when is the likely month in 2019 when production capacity will be available to commence upon any new orders?

 

[InOban]

surprised me too for that same reason. Also there's not much opportunity for charging the thing at EK but it is more or less downhill all the way back and they make extensive use of regenerative braking.

If they would struggle to climb to EK, then they would never get out of QS to get to Anniesland.

 

[Southsider]

If they would struggle to climb to EK, then they would never get out of QS to get to Anniesland.

Possibly although the climb to EK is over an extended distance. Not the sort of thing batteries like.

 

[sannox]

If they would struggle to climb to EK, then they would never get out of QS to get to Anniesland.

The tunnel has wires though so could be charged whilst climbing on OHL? Whereas at EK much of the climb is after wires disappear at Muirhouse Junction.

Note they haven't said about Barrhead services but could they be boosted to 3 car whilst still fitting into the bay platform at Barrhead?

 

[Glenmutchkin]

What sort of gradients are on the East Kilbride line?

Boness to Manuel is pretty much level for the first two miles and then uphill for three with longish sections of 1 in 75 and then 1 in 68. The unit at Boness seemed to cope easily with these.

 

[AMD]

I was at Bo'ness today and rode on the battery 230 and chatted with Vivarail staff. They reckon it is suitable for East Kilbride, Maryhill and Mallaig to start with.

Mallaig?! If that was railway staff suggesting it they would be sent for a medical.

 

[craigybagel]

The tunnel has wires though so could be charged whilst climbing on OHL? Whereas at EK much of the climb is after wires disappear at Muirhouse Junction.

Note they haven't said about Barrhead services but could they be boosted to 3 car whilst still fitting into the bay platform at Barrhead?

What sort of gradients are on the East Kilbride line?

Boness to Manuel is pretty much level for the first two miles and then uphill for three with longish sections of 1 in 75 and then 1 in 68. The unit at Boness seemed to cope easily with these.

They used to work over much steeper inclines on London Underground (IIRC the steepest part of the District was around 1 in 29?) - I assume the fear is more how well their batteries would cope

 

[sprinterguy]

The tunnel has wires though so could be charged whilst climbing on OHL?

I'm fairly confident that Vivarail's plans don't extend to fitting pantographs and heavy 25kV transformers to redundant third rail Underground stock. The impression I get is that the Vivarail option is meant to be a "grass roots" solution.

 

[Mollman]

I was at Bo'ness today and rode on the battery 230 and chatted with Vivarail staff. They reckon it is suitable for East Kilbride, Maryhill and Mallaig to start with.

I would have thought the former two would be inline for electrification once the current schemes finish whilst 230s would be regarded as something of a downgrade for WHL.

 

[gingertom]

I would have thought the former two would be inline for electrification once the current schemes finish whilst 230s would be regarded as something of a downgrade for WHL.

The unit I rode on 230002 had crowd-buster longitudinal seating with lots of standing room and lots of doors for quick access/egress. Not what the WHL needs. I agree with you that electrification for EK and Maryhill would be a superior solution, we don't need a microfleet for those lines but commonality with the rest of the network where possible.

 

[Class37.4]

While Vivarail might think there a need for them doesn't mean to say Scotrail does, given they retaining an additional 13 170's over what was originally planned.

 

[Highlandspring]

While Vivarail might think there a need for them doesn't mean to say Scotrail does, given they retaining an additional 13 170's over what was originally planned.

Interestingly I found out today that the Bo'ness visit has been arranged and paid for by Transport Scotland.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

So do these trains have diesel engines at all or are they 100% battery powered, if so that is quite impressive. How many hp/kw does each car produce at what is the capacity of the batteries.

 

[Highlandspring]

The one presently at Bo'ness is 100% battery powered, no diesel engines in sight.

 

[jopsuk]

The unit I rode on 230002 had crowd-buster longitudinal seating with lots of standing room and lots of doors for quick access/egress. Not what the WHL needs.

They have coaches set up with the mid doors plated up- those are what are shown in the slides posted further up thread showing renderings of units in Scotrail livery. It would be possible for them to be fitted with entirely 2+2 seating, including tables, with accessible loos, with bike storage etc. Don't think they've offered aircon though as an option.

 

[Journeyman]

The one presently at Bo'ness is 100% battery powered, no diesel engines in sight.

Yup. My son got along for a ride and spoke to a Vivarail person while he was there - they explained that the power equipment is entirely modular and can be slid in and out with a forklift. Basically, whatever it is, be it battery, diesel, hydrogen, Mr. Fusion Home Reactor etc., it just needs to produce 750v, and you're sorted.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The one presently at Bo'ness is 100% battery powered, no diesel engines in sight.

To be fair, early battery MUs were used in Scotland back in the 1950s weren't they?

 

[Journeyman]

To be fair, early battery MUs were used in Scotland back in the 1950s weren't they?

Well, one was. It was modestly successful by all accounts, but had nowhere to go once the Ballater branch was closed. It survived in departmental use and made it into preservation, though. It was based on the Derby Lightweight DMU design.

It was designed to be charged using cheaply generated hydro power, so it was forward-thinking and incredibly green for its day.

 

[randyrippley]

Obvious place to trial this sort of equipment is Lancaster-Morecambe.
Cut back the Leeds service to terminate at Lancaster and run a regular interval Lancaster-Morecambe shuttle

 

[Elecman]

To be fair, early battery MUs were used in Scotland back in the 1950s weren't they?

Yes on the Ballater branch wasn’t it?

 

[Elecman]

Also Preston Blackpool South

 

[Elecman]

Wigan Kirby

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yup. My son got along for a ride and spoke to a Vivarail person while he was there - they explained that the power equipment is entirely modular and can be slid in and out with a forklift.

In an earlier posting on this thread, where the line to Mallaig was mentioned as a possibility by Vivarail, but noting what is said above about the power equipment being able to be slid in and out with a forklift, there are certain locations on the West Highland line such as Corrour where such a task as that would be not very easily able to be performed, should an immediate need occur.

 

[GusB]

Why would they want to swap out a powerpack at Corrour?

 

[krus_aragon]

battery, diesel, hydrogen, Mr. Fusion Home Reactor etc., it just needs to produce 750v, and you're sorted

1.21GW at 750v would be interesting to see...

 

[73001]

In an earlier posting on this thread, where the line to Mallaig was mentioned as a possibility by Vivarail, but noting what is said above about the power equipment being able to be slid in and out with a forklift, there are certain locations on the West Highland line such as Corrour where such a task as that would be not very easily able to be performed, should an immediate need occur.

I don't suppose it's particularly easy to swap the engines in a 156 at Corrour either but as they normally tow broken down trains to somewhere more suitable to work on this shouldn't be an issue. In fact, as you'd only need to get them to somewhere suitable rather than a full depot it sort of makes it easier.