Derby Resignalling - 22 July - 7 October 2018

[43055]

Handed back in the early hours of this morning... well done

Thank you! I have been working on the project for just over a year now and it is nice to see the final result and it being finished early.

Now there's a fault with the signalling system meaning no trains but rail replacement buses between Matlock and Derby for the time being and also delays of upto 30mins to trains between Derby and Chesterfield until 11:00

Looks like it's something around Ambergate. The cancellations on the Matlocks are due to leaves on the line so maybe it is two separate issues??

 

[Dr Hoo]

It was slightly disappointing to be at Derby Station this morning with cancellations towards Matlock, Sheffield and Newark on the board. To cap it all they had just run out of celebratory cupcakes. Even Thameslink seemed to have enough of those on their first day.

But the new layout looks great and I am sure that it will serve the network well once it has settled down.

 

[tommy2215]

All of today, delay after delay after delay for trains going through Clay Cross.... a very poor start. How have network rail improved the line exactly? Also when arriving into Derby this evening I was told only some of the platforms there were in use because of a signalling fault at the station!

 

[Spartacus]

All the platforms are in use, it's just that due to an axle counter failure not all are useful as they might be. So be fair, an axle counter, like a track circuit, can almost go at any time.

During the day it's not been helped by a points failure at Clay Cross and that during early autumn there's been nothing but engineers trains on the line and fallen leaves between Derby and Clay Cross, with almost inevitable consequences. There has been an RHTT diverted over the section though and things have improved since.

 

[Qwerty133]

Axle counters may be able to go at any time but its rather poor that no-one thought that it may be an idea to check the heavily tree lined Matlock branch which had been closed for a number of weeks during the start of leaf fall season to ensure the rails were clear of leaves.

 

[Spartacus]

Axle counters may be able to go at any time but its rather poor that no-one thought that it may be an idea to check the heavily tree lined Matlock branch which had been closed for a number of weeks during the start of leaf fall season to ensure the rails were clear of leaves.

The main lines have been affected too. It's probably more a matter of being unable to allocate people to the job in the numbers that would be required, I'm guessing quite a few could be needed for so much line, and with such a level of contamination as I'd expect, they'd not shift it quickly.

 

[Foggycorner]

Rail head contamination by leaf mulch is one reason all trees should be cleared back from the line side to the boundry fence or twenty feet whichever is the greater
it would be safer for the staff working/walking line side being able to see and be seen
it would also aid signal sight lines

 

[dk1]

Sunday morning was the first really bad morning for railhead contamination this year. Add that to the route through to Clay Cross which has had very little traffic for weeks & I can see why there where serious issues yesterday. With hindsight a RHTT should've been sent across first thing but there you go.

 

[Mordac]

Rail head contamination by leaf mulch is one reason all trees should be cleared back from the line side to the boundry fence or twenty feet whichever is the greater
it would be safer for the staff working/walking line side being able to see and be seen
it would also aid signal sight lines

Don't even suggest that, the enviromental taliban will call the copse on you.

 

[sprinterguy]

With hindsight a RHTT should've been sent across first thing but there you go.

There was a fault with the water jets on the RHTT which meant it couldn't run.

 

[louis97]

Looks like it's something around Ambergate. The cancellations on the Matlocks are due to leaves on the line so maybe it is two separate issues??

All sort of connected, there was never any reported issues (from what I saw) with the Matlock branch itself, there were however many issues of poor rail adhesion between Clay Cross and Breadsall. This combined with an issue with a track circuit in the morning (caused by contaminated rail head) and the issues with clearing the rail heads of said contamination resulted in the implementation of revised method of working between Stretton (Just the Derby side of Clay Cross Tunnel) and Breadsall. This reduced capacity and although initially Matlock trains were withdrawn because of issues with the token on the branch, poor rail head conditions around Duffield and Belper stations and route setting issues onto the Branch, this was extended until the rail heads could be cleared to a satisfactory level which allowed the revised method of working to be withdrawn.

 

[swt_passenger]

Don't even suggest that, the enviromental taliban will call the copse on you.

They probably wood.

 

[dk1]

There was a fault with the water jets on the RHTT which meant it couldn't run.

Didn't realise that. Thanks for the info.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Today EMT have to cope with a derailed Pacer at Sheffield. It isn’t turning out to be a good week, sadly.

 

[Bald Rick]

They probably wood.

I was confused by the typos, but then I twigged.

 

[43055]

All sort of connected, there was never any reported issues (from what I saw) with the Matlock branch itself, there were however many issues of poor rail adhesion between Clay Cross and Breadsall. This combined with an issue with a track circuit in the morning (caused by contaminated rail head) and the issues with clearing the rail heads of said contamination resulted in the implementation of revised method of working between Stretton (Just the Derby side of Clay Cross Tunnel) and Breadsall. This reduced capacity and although initially Matlock trains were withdrawn because of issues with the token on the branch, poor rail head conditions around Duffield and Belper stations and route setting issues onto the Branch, this was extended until the rail heads could be cleared to a satisfactory level which allowed the revised method of working to be withdrawn.

I was just going of National Rail, thank you for the information. I presume the reduced method of working allows for a straight run though the affected area and no breaking is needed as trains could slide to a halt or possibly go past a red signal.

 

[martinr1]

Managed to resume my perambulations from Whatstandwell today and observe the completed project. It is of great credit to all involved that trains run through Derby as normal although the parallel running will take some getting used to!

 

[RichmondCommu]

Now the North Dock has gone where are they planning to stable locomotives?

 

[Belperpete]

I am concerned that the lack of flexibility in how the platforms can be used will be a big draw-back during perturbed working, such as I witnessed yesterday. I saw a Cardiff-Nottingham service held outside the station for I think the best part of 15 minutes. Before it could be brought into the already-occupied platform 4, it first had to wait for a train in platform 3 to depart. Then another train was routed into platform 3 from the north, unfortunately this blocked the move into platform 4 from the south until the train coming into platform 3 had been timed to a stand and released the overlap through the scissors. Previously, a Birmingham-Nottingham train could have been brought into virtually any platform, but now they can only use platforms 3 & 4.

Later on, it was necessary for a Sheffield train to overtake a late-running Matlock train, so with the Matlock occupying platform 5, it was necessary to route the Sheffield train through platform 4. As platform 3 was occupied by a Crewe service, this again meant that the only two platforms that can be used by Nottingham and Cardiff trains were then unavailable.

I wait with trepidation to see what happens when something fails, blocking either platform 3 or 4, so that the Nottingham, Cardiff and Crewe services all have to share just one platform. Or when say the line to Birmingham is blocked for any time, and numbers of trains have to be held at Derby waiting for a path.

 

[edwin_m]

I am concerned that the lack of flexibility in how the platforms can be used will be a big draw-back during perturbed working, such as I witnessed yesterday. I saw a Cardiff-Nottingham service held outside the station for I think the best part of 15 minutes. Before it could be brought into the already-occupied platform 4, it first had to wait for a train in platform 3 to depart. Then another train was routed into platform 3 from the north, unfortunately this blocked the move into platform 4 from the south until the train coming into platform 3 had been timed to a stand and released the overlap through the scissors. Previously, a Birmingham-Nottingham train could have been brought into virtually any platform, but now they can only use platforms 3 & 4.

Later on, it was necessary for a Sheffield train to overtake a late-running Matlock train, so with the Matlock occupying platform 5, it was necessary to route the Sheffield train through platform 4. As platform 3 was occupied by a Crewe service, this again meant that the only two platforms that can be used by Nottingham and Cardiff trains were then unavailable.

I wait with trepidation to see what happens when something fails, blocking either platform 3 or 4, so that the Nottingham, Cardiff and Crewe services all have to share just one platform. Or when say the line to Birmingham is blocked for any time, and numbers of trains have to be held at Derby waiting for a path.

Sounds as if they have a bit more thinking to do on platforming.

Are they making much use of 3b and 4b? Would seem the ideal place to park such things as Crewe terminators and Matlocks being overtaken, and still allow the reversers to use the A ends.

 

[DDB]

The XC to Nottingham often arrive slightly delayed and in my experience get further delayed waiting for a platform. The Crewe terminators use 3B I think which I've seen cause problem as the XC to Nottingham is booked for 3A and held outside the station to let the Crewe escape.

A couple of days ago me and my fellow passengers who can see our train held outside the station were made to wait for our already delayed train while the "flying banana" came through on our platform which struck me as the wrong priority being given.

I wonder if a swap of the Crewe from 3 to 4 or swapping the platforms of the XC to/from Nottingham services would help as the train from Nottingham is not delayed into Derby as often in my experience, presumably as there is last chance of picking up delay having only started in Nottingham.

DDB

 

[Belperpete]

A couple of days ago me and my fellow passengers who can see our train held outside the station were made to wait for our already delayed train while the "flying banana" came through on our platform which struck me as the wrong priority being given.

I saw the same thing happen yesterday. I put it down to them wanting to get the banana out of the way of something else, such as an East Midlands or XCountry mainline service. Unfortunately, I think that anything going into or out of the Carriage Works and Research Centre yard have to go through platforms 3&4, along with the Crewe, Cardiff and Nottingham services. Platforms 3&4 look to be a real pinch-point. Perhaps the old van siding could be re-instated as a bay platform 0 for the Crewe trains?

Are they making much use of 3b and 4b? Would seem the ideal place to park such things as Crewe terminators and Matlocks being overtaken, and still allow the reversers to use the A ends.

When I arrived from Crewe, we were put in 4B. I presume that they were doing a set-swap, as the return working to Crewe was a 2-car set already sat in 3A, while the 1-car set I arrived on sat in 4B for about half-an-hour before forming a service for Nottingham. This set-swap therefore occupied both platforms 3 and 4 for a considerable time, leaving just 4A available for reversers.

Using 3B and 4B may help when things are running to time. But what happens if a service that is scheduled to use the B end arrives late, after the train that is scheduled into the A end of the platform? You either delay the other train's arrival outside the station until your train has got in, or you put the trains into the platform in reverse order, in which case you block the other train's departure until your train has left. With the old layout, there was usually another empty platform somewhere you could put the late-running train into. With the new layout, there is much less flexibility.

 

[satisnek]

Ever since Operation Princess (from when I've been forced to use the infernal things, which are quick off the mark but have no other positive attribute) I've timed the run from Derby to New Street when I've caught the 1954 or 2053 services on Saturday evenings, trying to achieve a start-to-stop journey time of less than 30 minutes. So many times it's been tantalisingly close, with the clock ticking over the 30 minute mark when entering New Street station! The annoying thing is, I'm sure I once did it but didn't have the stopwatch running so there was no proof.

Now, with the high speed exit from Derby (Platform 2) I reckon that it should be more easily do-able. No such luck last night, though. Although my watch decided to throw a wobbly and reset itself when I started the stopwatch , going by the platform clocks it was still just slightly over the magic figure and within 31 minutes!

 

[louis97]

Now, with the high speed exit from Derby (Platform 2) I reckon that it should be more easily do-able. No such luck last night, though. Although my watch decided to throw a wobbly and reset itself when I started the stopwatch , going by the platform clocks it was still just slightly over the magic figure and within 31 minutes!

I did Birmingham to Derby in 29.5 minutes on an HST a couple weeks ago. That was coming into Platform 3 at Derby too.

Before the re-modelling started I did do 30 minutes on an HST on a Sunday morning from Derby to Birmingham.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

I did Birmingham to Derby in 29.5 minutes on an HST a couple weeks ago. That was coming into Platform 3 at Derby too.

Before the re-modelling started I did do 30 minutes on an HST on a Sunday morning from Derby to Birmingham.

I've also experienced timings of 30 minutes before remodelling, but always between Birmingham and Derby and on Voyagers coming into platform 1.

I used to have a Blackberry phone, and if you opened the map you could see where you were and what speed you were going; it seemed to be pretty accurate (I remember being on a train when I was sitting facing forward on the left side and my phone showed that I was do mile after mile at line speed) and on one trip back to Derby on a HST it got up to 128mph just before Wichnor.

Is that common?

 

[louis97]

I've also experienced timings of 30 minutes before remodelling, but always between Birmingham and Derby and on Voyagers coming into platform 1.

I used to have a Blackberry phone, and if you opened the map you could see where you were and what speed you were going; it seemed to be pretty accurate (I remember being on a train when I was sitting facing forward on the left side and my phone showed that I was do mile after mile at line speed) and on one trip back to Derby on a HST it got up to 128mph just before Wichnor.

Is that common?

Just sounds like typical GPS inaccuracy.

 

[satisnek]

Can be done then - certainly in the northbound direction which is presumably downhill, although there's no noticeable gradient. It's just that I've always used the non-stop services on Saturday evenings when the toilet retention tanks are full. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

 

[DDB]

Does anyone know what the plan is for the siding next to Spondon level crossing? It has been disconnected but only by removing bits of the points rather than replacing them completely with plain track.
It hasn't been removed and I think some of the buffers have been freshly placed. Also therre is still road/rail equipment there as if work is being carried out on it.
I took the photo below this morning.

DDB

 

[43055]

Does anyone know what the plan is for the siding next to Spondon level crossing? It has been disconnected but only by removing bits of the points rather than replacing them completely with plain track.
It hasn't been removed and I think some of the buffers have been freshly placed. Also therre is still road/rail equipment there as if work is being carried out on it.
I took the photo below this morning.

DDB

View attachment 53918

As far as I am aware they should have been removed. Maybe its a temporary thing and it will be taken up properly at a later date. There also seams to be one or two speed restrictions north of the station.

 

[HOOVER29]

Went to Derby today to have a nosey at the work that’s been done. Can I assume that work is still to be completed?
Cable troughs uncovered, bare cabling everywhere, various pieces of engineering stuff scattered here, there & everywhere & I think someone needs to look at the plumbing on platform 6 as at certain times of the day the smell was, erm different. Sounds like a moan & an excuse to pull apart all the hard work that’s been done but it’s not. It’s greatly improved approach & departure speeds. I’ve been to Derby station on & off for nearly 40 years & the station layout is the best it’s been.