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Derby Resignalling - 22 July - 7 October 2018

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The_Engineer

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Cable troughs uncovered, bare cabling everywhere, various pieces of engineering stuff scattered here, there & everywhere...…..
Quite common on projects like these...…. Rather than delay hand-back unnecessarily, and get trains running, a few line possessions (overnight usually) will clear the heavier excess material away and allow for cable tidying, etc., in a timely manner. A lot of the tidying on the eastern side appears to be clear enough from the running lines to allow safe worker and road vehicle access anyway. Heavier stuff could also be craned out of this area over the fence.
 
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The_Engineer

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Now the North Dock has gone where are they planning to stable locomotives?
As far as I can recall, articles I read earlier on this project referred to use of the south dock, accessed from Peartree via St Andrew's siding. They may use Chaddesden sidings or a siding in Etches Park I suppose if the south dock is too fiddley operationally...…… my conjecture though, don't quote me!

On a separate note, I have noted that Chaddesden curve is used daily for some terminating trains from the south to be recessed out of the platforms before returning to a platform for their next journey...

On platforms 3 and 4, the B end is often used by shorter peak terminating DMUs from Nottingham direction, and a lot of the Crewe trains, which allows revering cross-country DMUs from Nottingham and the Birmingham direction to still use the A end. I have been watching the Open Train Times signalling map of Derby in the past few days and so have witnessed it myself in a remote internet way!

In all, to me it looks a really good solution to the previous capacity problems, especially at the south end of the station. Trains towards Belper and Peartree can usually clear the platforms and be held to permit the correct sequence of trains in those directions to be maintained without platform blocking which again eases capacity and time keeping issues.
 

Ploughman

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That sort of statement has been said about many projects over the years.
Yes we will pick it all up later.
Still waiting in many cases after many years and as for collecting in rail from defect removals.
 

The_Engineer

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That sort of statement has been said about many projects over the years.
Yes we will pick it all up later.
Still waiting in many cases after many years and as for collecting in rail from defect removals.

Yes, at stations though it tends to be done much more quickly as it is more visible to our precious customers. The signalling engineers are also very touchy about leaving their cables out of the troughing due to the very high risk of accidental damage and its operational consequences.....
 

LowLevel

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As far as I am aware they should have been removed. Maybe its a temporary thing and it will be taken up properly at a later date. There also seams to be one or two speed restrictions north of the station.

They are done with - their raison d'etre in the form of the factory has been demolished. They'll be pulled up at some point or left to rot.
 

deltic08

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The platforms are also very short on canopies. Nearly every station that has seen "improvement", the canopies are shorter than they were originally. Never mind the fare paying passenger in the snow and rain. This no doubt is due to the bean counters.
A good example are Thirsk and Northallerton. They had canopies on every platform about 9 coaches long. After "modernisation" everything was demolished at platform level and now nothing except a shelter on each platform. In heavy rain you can get a soaking walking to your train and queueing to board especially Northallerton that is now an interchange station for Thirsk.
Similarly on the Leeds bound platform at Harrogate. The entire Queen of Scots Pullman could be platformed under a canopy. Now nothing and even the enclosed footbridge has now been replaced with an open one. Very poor customer care.
 
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DDB

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A letter was sent to nearby residents on the 11th saying there would be "follow up" works on various dates in October and it lists three examples, tamping, materials recovery and canopy works in the station. So there might be more canopy appearing.
 

civ-eng-jim

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The platforms are also very short on canopies.

The extent of the canopies is more than adequate - They're incomplete at the southern end of platforms 3&4, but this is a known issue which will be resolved.

This no doubt is due to the bean counters.

Someone, somewhere decided, and quite sensibly, that there is no need to extend canopies for the full length of the platform or even the length of the longest train which typically uses it. Passengers tend to congregate around the bottom of the stairs and lifts(Where canopies are present) Longer canopies would only provide additional roosting space for the local pigeons for most of the time.
 

The_Engineer

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The drawings deposited with Derby City Council show canopies on platforms 2/3 and 4/5 of approximately the same length as on 6.
Those platforms were demolished at the south end and rebuilt (straightened) to accommodate the new track layout. The existing canopies were removed on the affected platform lengths removed.

As civ-eng-jim said, and also looking at the original imagery shown on the original Network Rail presentations, they would be longer than at the moment. As intimated, this was perhaps work that might have delayed hand-back and was previously done without further line possessions. We'll wait and see what happens! -:)
 
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Those platforms were demolished at the south end and rebuilt (straightened) to accommodate the new track layout. The existing canopies were removed on the affected platform lengths removed.

As civ-eng-jim said, and also looking at the original imagery shown on the original Network Rail presentations, they would be longer than at the moment. As intimated, this was perhaps work that might have delayed hand-back and was previously done without further line possessions. We'll wait and see what happens! -:)

Looking at pohotos taken whilst the works were progressing, there do appear to be bases inserted for canopy support columns; sorry it's not very clear (taken through side windows of the footbridge), but there does appear to be a line of them on platform 3a. Also, the canopy om platform 4/5 does not have a straight "cut"; some supports were left in place (see second image).
DSCN9939.JPG DSCN9915.JPG

In #322, Belperpete suggested that a new platform 0 be created for Crewe services; I think this is very unlikely to happen as - according to the papers deposited with Derby City Council - passive provision has been made during the remodelling works for the extension of platforms 1 and 2 to 400m. Reference is made in the deposited papers to Drg: 132532-JAC-CV-DRG-000007 which covers this, but a copy isn't available of the council's website.

For those interested in railway history, the enabling acts for the Derby station remodelling works are the Birmingham & Derby Juction Railway Act of 1836 and the Midland Railway (Widened Lines) Act of 1891.
 

The_Engineer

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In #322, Belperpete suggested that a new platform 0 be created for Crewe services; I think this is very unlikely to happen as - according to the papers deposited with Derby City Council - passive provision has been made during the remodelling works for the extension of platforms 1 and 2 to 400m. Reference is made in the deposited papers to Drg: 132532-JAC-CV-DRG-000007 which covers this, but a copy isn't available of the council's website.

Even without the platform 1&2 lengthening, the platform 0 would be a long walk to the station exit, and the overbridge for changing trains. Crewe passengers would not be best pleased!

The present arrangement of timetable, whereby the Crewe trains use either 3B or 4B, works well as the XC Nottingham to Birmingham/Cardiff services can still use the A-end of these platforms. And both the Crewe and XC services end up very close to the footbridge!!

On a separate point, most through freight now passes straight through Derby station platforms 1 & 2 at a potentially higher speed, if signals are clear, rather than the blanket 15 mph crawl for everything previously. I wonder if anyone has witnessed a freight get a clear run at these speeds? I think it would be a bit startling at first!!
 

swt_passenger

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Just ‘thinking aloud’, but is it possible that certain parts of the original roof are being recycled/ adjusted, and to do this properly it couldn’t be started until accurate “as built” measurements of the new platforms and foundations were available?
 

The_Engineer

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Just ‘thinking aloud’, but is it possible that certain parts of the original roof are being recycled/ adjusted, and to do this properly it couldn’t be started until accurate “as built” measurements of the new platforms and foundations were available?
Indeed! Very probable, and a prudent measure......
 
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A short film taken at the north end of the station on 11th October 2018; it's interesting to see the apeed at which a pair of class 20s enter platform 4 from the north (at the end of the film).
 

HOOVER29

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The approach speeds now are miles ahead of what the old layout offered. While I was there 66779 passed through working 6M83, the Tinsley to Bardon empties at at least 30 mph.
 

The_Engineer

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I agree that entry and exit speeds are noticeably faster.....]

Yes, impressive!!

I think ALL platforms through Derby station and the approach lines (not crossovers) are cleared for 30 mph, with one of either platforms 1 & 2 cleared for 40 mph! That's why I wondered about those platforms in particular. Freight running on the north-south lines with a clear run could possibly give a startling run through the 40 mph platform...… :)
 

Senex

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Yes, impressive!!

I think ALL platforms through Derby station and the approach lines (not crossovers) are cleared for 30 mph, with one of either platforms 1 & 2 cleared for 40 mph! That's why I wondered about those platforms in particular. Freight running on the north-south lines with a clear run could possibly give a startling run through the 40 mph platform...… :)
I changed twice at Derby yesterday, so experienced in and out and had a chance to take a quick look at the work. I found my two departures, southbound on the Spondon line and northbound from platform 1, very impressive, but both arrivals, southbound into 2 and northbound into 5, were much more cautious than I had expected. I'd be very interested to know whether departures from 5 northbound have to be slightly restrained because of how far out the 60mph crossovers to the main lines are. But the whole layout looks splendid—on a much more generous scale than we've tended to see in this country in the past (almost continental, in fact!), and a world away from the rather uninspiring Nottingham of just a few years ago.
 

edwin_m

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Yes, impressive!!

I think ALL platforms through Derby station and the approach lines (not crossovers) are cleared for 30 mph, with one of either platforms 1 & 2 cleared for 40 mph! That's why I wondered about those platforms in particular. Freight running on the north-south lines with a clear run could possibly give a startling run through the 40 mph platform...… :)
Probably because 1 and 2 are nearly straight towards Birmingham, and the other platforms have more curvature/pointwork that forces a lower speed.
 

Mugby

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I can't yet figure out the line arrangement in the St. Marys area.

On Thursday I stood on Mansfield Road bridge and saw an XC service heading north on what was the old Reception Road/Down Goods alignment.
At the same time, a freight headed north on what was the old Down Main alignment under the middle arch of the bridge.
When I travelled in from Sheffield today, my XC train was on the same line under the middle arch but obviously in the opposite direction.

So are all three lines under Mansfield Rd. Bridge bi-directional? What determines which trains use which lines?
 

swt_passenger

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I can't yet figure out the line arrangement in the St. Marys area.

On Thursday I stood on Mansfield Road bridge and saw an XC service heading north on what was the old Reception Road/Down Goods alignment.
At the same time, a freight headed north on what was the old Down Main alignment under the middle arch of the bridge.
When I travelled in from Sheffield today, my XC train was on the same line under the middle arch but obviously in the opposite direction.

So are all three lines under Mansfield Rd. Bridge bi-directional? What determines which trains use which lines?
There’s a track diagram linked within post #78 of this thread which should explain all:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...uly-7-october-2018.159761/page-3#post-3378111
I expect there are a number of different options for crossing moves.
 

HOOVER29

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That's the reason I heard for it not being realised.

They could’ve done what they’ve done at Doncaster with its platform 0 with an over bridge at the Burton end but that would probably interfere with the sighting of the signalling gantry
 

The_Engineer

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They could’ve done what they’ve done at Doncaster with its platform 0 with an over bridge at the Burton end but that would probably interfere with the sighting of the signalling gantry

It's still a long walk to the station exit though. More passengers are headed into Derby itself than changing trains. An expensive solution for the few passengers who do change trains....
 

Mugby

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It's still a long walk to the station exit though. More passengers are headed into Derby itself than changing trains. An expensive solution for the few passengers who do change trains....

Yes but it wouldn't be as far as the old bay platform 5 was from the exit.
 

The_Engineer

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There’s a track diagram linked within post #78 of this thread which should explain all:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...uly-7-october-2018.159761/page-3#post-3378111
I expect there are a number of different options for crossing moves.

If I may add to the other reply to you, there is probably a more up to date track and signalling plan here - https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/derby

The only inaccuracy I have found is in the carriage line (used as platform 7 in the works) and the loop alongside it) in which I have seen from recent photographs actually has these two lines merging to a single track on the curve and then almost immediately branches into two (or three??) tracks, meaning both lines from the station end curving into Etches Park can access all tracks into the depot.....
 

HOOVER29

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Plus it’ll free up a platform. Even though it’s not as far to walk I bet the planners who thought up the platform 0 at Doncaster didn’t thing of the walk passengers will have to do. It has freed up platform 1 for services to London.
 

The_Engineer

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Plus it’ll free up a platform. Even though it’s not as far to walk I bet the planners who thought up the platform 0 at Doncaster didn’t thing of the walk passengers will have to do. It has freed up platform 1 for services to London.
I agree with the Doncaster arrangement. However, at Derby the Crewe train (1 or 2 cars) occupies platform 3B or 4B - right by the northern stairs to the bridge. All other trains in platforms three and four are short DMU reversing services (stopping by the southern staircase) one of which is timetabled to do so in the Crewe train layover period, plus some peak hour EM terminating sprinters. Therefore it does not free up a platform for any further use!!
 

43055

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I can't yet figure out the line arrangement in the St. Marys area.

On Thursday I stood on Mansfield Road bridge and saw an XC service heading north on what was the old Reception Road/Down Goods alignment.
At the same time, a freight headed north on what was the old Down Main alignment under the middle arch of the bridge.
When I travelled in from Sheffield today, my XC train was on the same line under the middle arch but obviously in the opposite direction.

So are all three lines under Mansfield Rd. Bridge bi-directional? What determines which trains use which lines?
All lines are Bi-Di as fast as Breadsall (north of St Marys). In theory all trains can use any line but the northbound services tend to use 1 line and southbound tend to use the other two depending on the platform they are going to use.
 
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