Trivia: Largest towns/cities in Great Britain without a direct rail link to London

[Jorge Da Silva]

Lowestoft has had a London service removed and re-installed more times then I can remember. Everything from full on intercity trains to 2/3 car Turbostars have attempted the service over the years.

Does Great Yarmouth still have a direct service to Liverpool Street? Been a long time since I was back over that way.

Not regularly. Apparently there is a number of summer weekend services but other than that no.

Shrewsbury would have been a good answer until a couple of years ago. Wrexham also gets a Virgin Train visiting now and again doesn't it?

Yes

Do Virgin still go to Llandudno?

No. Stopped in December 2008

 

[gord]

Not regularly. Apparently there is a number of summer weekend services but other than that no.



Yes



No. Stopped in December 2008

Thank you. Wow, I really am behind with the times, particularly Llandudno.

 

[Alfonso]

Seeing as this is pedants' corner, is it worth mentioning that the city of Westminster has pretty poor mainline rail links to the city of London? No? I'll get my anorak...

 

[InOban]

Presumably Ive been landing and taking off from Paisley International Airport for the past 2 years without knowing it....
(Despite being a pretty pro Scot Man of Kent I'm ashamed to admit I didn't even know where St Mirren was until I was driven to cheap off site airport parking)

And London Luton, Stansted and Gatwick Airports aren't in London. For obvious reasons very few major airports will be within the conventional boundaries of their city. There is a (narrow) strip of green belt separating Paisley from Glasgow.

 

[BigCj34]

Mansfield does not appear to. Barrow is worth a mention though it is certainly not the biggest.

 

[Scousemouse]

From a ‘local authority’ perspective (rather than individual cities and towns) Wirral must be up there. population around 320,000.

Doesnt Chester count for the Wirral?

 

[Scousemouse]

I don't think anyone has mentioned Dudley and West Bromwich (no rail service at all) or Walsall (soon to get a London service).

Sandwell and Dudley?

 

[paul1609]

And London Luton, Stansted and Gatwick Airports aren't in London. For obvious reasons very few major airports will be within the conventional boundaries of their city. There is a (narrow) strip of green belt separating Paisley from Glasgow.

So presumably it should be Glasgow Paisley Airport?
The Green Belt also appears to have several holes in it according to the OS Maps.

 

[kieron]

Doesnt Chester count for the Wirral?

From a 'local authority' perspective, no. I'm pretty sure it doesn't count from a 'peninsula' perspective, either.

Sandwell and Dudley?

That's not in Dudley according to the ONS map someone mentioned. I have no idea if Cradley Heath is meant to be, though.

 

[Smethwickian]

That's not in Dudley according to the ONS map someone mentioned. I have no idea if Cradley Heath is meant to be, though.

Cradley Heath is in the borough of Sandwell. Stations within Dudley metropolitan borough are Coseley, Lye, Stourbridge Junction and Stourbridge Town.

 

[InOban]

So presumably it should be Glasgow Paisley Airport?
The Green Belt also appears to have several holes in it according to the OS Maps.

And indeed the local authority boundary is much further towards Glasgow (Braehead shopping centre is just inside Renfrewshire)

 

[vlad]

If you're including places without stations, Swadlincote and Newcastle-under-Lyme (though that's kind of the whole Manchester/Salford situation).

You realise Newcastle isn't part of the Manchester/Salford conurbation, right?

 

[route101]

Paisley

Biggest town in Scotland , used to have service to London .

East Kilbride is another .

 

[route101]

So presumably it should be Glasgow Paisley Airport?
The Green Belt also appears to have several holes in it according to the OS Maps.

If you take train from Glasgow to Paisley stations theres farmland but im sure its surrounded by urban development .

 

[bussnapperwm]

I don't think anyone has mentioned Dudley and West Bromwich (no rail service at all) or Walsall (soon to get a London service).

Dudley is the largest town with no railway within its traditional township border.

Dudley is served by Sandwell & Dudley which has 1tph to London.

Sandwell and Dudley?

Both Sandwell and Dudley, Cradley Heath and Rowley Regis are in the borough of Sandwell, not the borough of Dudley.

Stourbridge Town and Junction was built to serve the former Stourbridge borough in Worcestershire (Even though it's now an outpost of the Metropolitan Borough of Dudley.)

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I don't think anyone has mentioned Dudley and West Bromwich (no rail service at all) or Walsall (soon to get a London service).

The Hawthorns, right outside West Bromwich Albion FC has a direct service to London .

 

[kieron]

Cradley Heath is in the borough of Sandwell. Stations within Dudley metropolitan borough are Coseley, Lye, Stourbridge Junction and Stourbridge Town.

Sorry, I realise that wasn't very clear. I wasn't looking at local authority boundaries for that definition of Dudley, but the blobs on the map I gave a link to. That includes the pattern in the attached file, with Dudley and Cradley Heath in blue, but none of the surrounding area highlighted. I don't know how many towns the ONS think are in that blob, though.

If you're including places without stations, Swadlincote and Newcastle-under-Lyme (though that's kind of the whole Manchester/Salford situation).

Actually, I'm wondering about Newcastle-under-Lyme now. The council boundary appears to run along the railway near Longport station, with the Station Street entrance being in Stoke-on-Trent borough, and the Longbridge Hayes Road one in Newcastle-under-Lyme borough. Does the station itself cross the boundary?

Of course, Longport doesn't get London trains very often.

 

[Bevan Price]

Not the largest, but St. Helens (about 102,000 for the traditional borough; more if you include the bits dragged (sometimes unwillingly) into it in 1974 has no direct service to London. Nearby Widnes (60,000) also has no London service.

 

[BluePenguin]

Not really, Croydon is as much part of London as Stratford and Acton are. The London Borough of Croydon doesn't even have city status.

Croydon is not a city it is a town in Surrey which is now considered Greater/South London by many because of the council who now run the area

It is very easy to categorise everywhere inside the M25 as being part of "Greater London" although Croydon, Stratford and Acton will always have those of us who stand by our belives that these towns still remain geographically Surrey, Essex and Middlesex respectively.

 

[USBT]

In the interests of asinine pedantry: I do not believe there is any main line rail connection from the City of Westminster to the City of London.

Yet another great piece of trivia that will be ruined when Crossrail opens.

But true. Since the Thameslink project ended the possibility of the occasional Charing Cross to Cannon Street service I’m pretty sure you’re right.

And, if the “London” in question is the City of London, then the answer must be Birmingham.

 

[A Challenge]

Considering it leaves only a few (non-long-distance) London Terminals in London...

 

[USBT]

Considering it leaves only a few (non-long-distance) London Terminals in London...

Precisely. hehe!

(Blackfriars, City Thameslink, Cannon Street, Fenchurch Street, Liverpool Street and Moorgate).

 

[LeeLivery]

You realise Newcastle isn't part of the Manchester/Salford conurbation, right?

Yes, it's the Potteries conurbation but the same kind of situation...

Sorry, I realise that wasn't very clear. I wasn't looking at local authority boundaries for that definition of Dudley, but the blobs on the map I gave a link to. That includes the pattern in the attached file, with Dudley and Cradley Heath in blue, but none of the surrounding area highlighted. I don't know how many towns the ONS think are in that blob, though.

Actually, I'm wondering about Newcastle-under-Lyme now. The council boundary appears to run along the railway near Longport station, with the Station Street entrance being in Stoke-on-Trent borough, and the Longbridge Hayes Road one in Newcastle-under-Lyme borough. Does the station itself cross the boundary?

Of course, Longport doesn't get London trains very often.

I believe it the river is the boundary so I don't think it does.

Croydon is not a city it is a town in Surrey which is now considered Greater/South London by many because of the council who now run the area

It is very easy to categorise everywhere inside the M25 as being part of "Greater London" although Croydon, Stratford and Acton will always have those of us who stand by our belives that these towns still remain geographically Surrey, Essex and Middlesex respectively.

I'm guessing Strasbourg is still in Germany and Berwick is still in Scotland then. Boundaries change, they always have. At one point Sydenham was in Kent and Peterborough was in Northamptonshire. No one seriously suggests they are still in those counties because they aren't. I don't categorise everywhere inside of the M25 as Greater London - only the places that are factually Greater London. You may not like it, but to suggest otherwise is just wrong and is living in the past.

 

[A Challenge]

Part of Greater London is outside the M25 anyway.

 

[Chris172]

Droitwich Spa

 

[xotGD]

Plenty of towns in the northeast on the list. In addition to those mentioned up-thread add Blyth, Ashington, Washington, Peterlee, Consett, Bishop Auckland, Spennymoor, etc.

 

[AlastairFraser]

You can say what you like about the factual differences in counties (and former county-equivalents), post codes and postal towns which are all true. However international, UK and Scottish bodies including those responsible for statistics and allocation of funding, consider Paisley to be be part of the Glasgow urban area, just as they consider Salford and Bolton to be part of the Manchester urban area. This is a clear difference from Reading which is in a different region, a place from which you cannot get to London without passing through a built up area and without passing through green belt land.

I don't know about that, Reading to London the long way via Bracknell is pretty continuous in terms of urban development and I think Bracknell is actually in the London Urban areas. Paisley is probably a separate satellite town of Glasgow in my mind,like Woking is to London.Or maybe somewhere like East Kilbride but not a New Town for a better comparison

 

[robertclark125]

Someone mentioned East Kilbride. Of the five Scottish "New towns" created after WW2, none of them have a direct rail link to London. Glenrothes doesn't have a railway station, Markinch being the nearest as is Glenrothes with Thornton.

 

[dk1]

Lowestoft has had a London service removed and re-installed more times then I can remember. Everything from full on intercity trains to 2/3 car Turbostars have attempted the service over the years.

Does Great Yarmouth still have a direct service to Liverpool Street? Been a long time since I was back over that way.

Great Yarmouth lost its last direct Summer Saturday services in 2015. These where loco hauled & removed in favour of more frequent & regular fast local services. The last 170 operated weekday service finished around 2011.

Lowestoft also lost its 170 direct trains via the East Suffolk in 2011, however 4 per day are expected to start again using 755 units in either December 2019 or most likely May 2020.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Great Yarmouth lost its last direct Summer Saturday services in 2015. These where loco hauled & removed in favour of more frequent & regular fast local services. The last 170 operated weekday service finished around 2011.

Lowestoft also lost its 170 direct trains via the East Suffolk in 2011, however 4 per day are expected to start again using 755 units in either December 2019 or most likely May 2020.

Yep from what I gather from December 2004 until December 2010 there were direct services between Liverpool Street to Peterborough, Lowestoft, Bury St Edmunds and Cambridge via Ipswich.