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Trivia: Largest towns/cities in Great Britain without a direct rail link to London

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dk1

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Yep from what I gather from December 2004 until December 2010 there were direct services between Liverpool Street to Peterborough, Lowestoft, Bury St Edmunds and Cambridge via Ipswich.
Yes that's correct except they didn't serve Cambridge. They where the regular 170 operated trains that where an extension of the Peterborough/Lowestoft-Ipswich services. A good idea in practice but the 3-car units where hopelessly too small to carry the number of passengers on the 'stopping' EMU service south of Ipswich that they replaced & also a terrible waste of scarce DMUs. There where 3 operating under the wires at any one time.
 
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ijmad

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Croydon is not a city it is a town in Surrey which is now considered Greater/South London by many because of the council who now run the area

It is very easy to categorise everywhere inside the M25 as being part of "Greater London" although Croydon, Stratford and Acton will always have those of us who stand by our belives that these towns still remain geographically Surrey, Essex and Middlesex respectively.

I think it's easy enough to say the 'traditional' county is Surrey/Middlesex/Essex while acknowledging that it is _now_ part of London as the city has grown. This is the case for plenty of other places too that are now 'London', just long enough ago that it's not in living memory. Croydon is one of the 32 London boroughs and pays part of its council tax to the Mayor, so definitely a part of London right at the minute.
 

driver_m

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Can we please agree that a town/city with a history of its own and the various admistrative purposes such as registry offices, regional identity and such make them towns in their own right and not suburbs of the nearest big city. Too often people on here with no connections to that place, rather loftily decide that we should lose our local identity, and I include you in this @Mojo. Yes it's your opinion, but as it is likely to cause offence, then don''t you think you should use a bit of sensitivity. After all, no one would insult Wales in context to size or relation to England, so for me there's no difference by saying Bolton/Salford are suburbs of Manchester . They aren't. And to say so is insulting. The town I come from is St Helens, and much as I actually love Liverpool, I would take great offence at anyone else trying to say my town is a suburb of Liverpool, it is not. It has its own history and it's priorities are not necessarily Liverpool's. I.E transport connections, sporting interests, dialect, and forms part of the rich difference of this country. Hence why you can walk 25 miles from the Liver Buildings and encounter at least 4 accents .I'm aware this is the largest area without a London link and for me it should be the town itself. Not the borough, which in Wigans case for instance would automatically wipe out a claim for Leigh being one of the biggest places without a station. Just by virtue of being I .Wigan Borough. I know Salford very well, and a couple ofy workmates from Salford would take a very dim view of being called a Manc. As such I think their claim for largest city without a link is a sound one .Just because it is side by side with Manchester makes it less of a place. The BBC and ITV always refer to their home as Salford and a bit of respect for these places is in order. Thank you.
 

SwindonBert

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Strange - it was there last time I looked;)
Hence all this present trouble about a hard border/brexit, etc.
It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so it's not in GB.
It's as accurate to say Belfast is in Britain as saying Glasgow is in England
 

InOban

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Strange - it was there last time I looked;)
Hence all this present trouble about a hard border/brexit, etc.
It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So Northern Ireland is in the uk but not in GB.

And of course the whole of Ireland is part of the British Isles.
 
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Jorge Da Silva

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Strange - it was there last time I looked;)
Hence all this present trouble about a hard border/brexit, etc.

It’s part of the United Kingdom not Great Britain. Difference is in the name, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Great Britain is Scotland, England and Wales, if you add Northern Ireland it’s the UK
Sorry for going off topic.
 

Bookd

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Can we please agree that a town/city with a history of its own and the various admistrative purposes such as registry offices, regional identity and such make them towns in their own right and not suburbs of the nearest big city. Too often people on here with no connections to that place, rather loftily decide that we should lose our local identity, and I include you in this @Mojo. Yes it's your opinion, but as it is likely to cause offence, then don''t you think you should use a bit of sensitivity. After all, no one would insult Wales in context to size or relation to England, so for me there's no difference by saying Bolton/Salford are suburbs of Manchester . They aren't. And to say so is insulting. The town I come from is St Helens, and much as I actually love Liverpool, I would take great offence at anyone else trying to say my town is a suburb of Liverpool, it is not. It has its own history and it's priorities are not necessarily Liverpool's. I.E transport connections, sporting interests, dialect, and forms part of the rich difference of this country. Hence why you can walk 25 miles from the Liver Buildings and encounter at least 4 accents .I'm aware this is the largest area without a London link and for me it should be the town itself. Not the borough, which in Wigans case for instance would automatically wipe out a claim for Leigh being one of the biggest places without a station. Just by virtue of being I .Wigan Borough. I know Salford very well, and a couple ofy workmates from Salford would take a very dim view of being called a Manc. As such I think their claim for largest city without a link is a sound one .Just because it is side by side with Manchester makes it less of a place. The BBC and ITV always refer to their home as Salford and a bit of respect for these places is in order. Thank you.
Although perhaps off topic I claim to live in Middlesex, which is still accepted by Royal Mail as a postal address and by cricket and other sports as a county. People claim that it no longer exists but that is because the county council was abolished when the GLC was formed; the county goes back to Saxon times (land of the middle Saxons) and the administration does not cancel the history. We still have a County Court (in the County Town of Brentford).
Moving to Liverpool I have a book by a scouser bus conductor from the old days, when Liverpool Corporation had a route to Prescot where they met with St. Helens Corporation crews on their service; the St. Helens crews spoke Lancastrian which was almost a different language!
 

FenMan

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Although perhaps off topic I claim to live in Middlesex, which is still accepted by Royal Mail as a postal address and by cricket and other sports as a county. People claim that it no longer exists but that is because the county council was abolished when the GLC was formed; the county goes back to Saxon times (land of the middle Saxons) and the administration does not cancel the history. We still have a County Court (in the County Town of Brentford).
Moving to Liverpool I have a book by a scouser bus conductor from the old days, when Liverpool Corporation had a route to Prescot where they met with St. Helens Corporation crews on their service; the St. Helens crews spoke Lancastrian which was almost a different language!

Guildford is classified as being part of the Greater London Urban Area these days ....

Back to the subject. The East of England has a fair number of sizeable towns/boroughs with no trains to London or, in some cases, any trains at all:-

Great Yarmouth (98,000)
Boston (66,000)
Lowestoft (71,000)
Bury St Edmunds (41,000)
Wisbech (31,000)
Spalding (28,000)
Haverhill (27,000)
Thetford (24,000)
Newmarket (20,000)
 

Bedpan

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What about Sudbury (23,500)? Does it have a direct train to London? If so I wopuld imagine it would have to go to Colchester and then retrace its steps to marks Tey.
 

Whistler40145

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Two large towns I can think of without any services to London surely must be Ayr & Kilmarnock.

Cumbernauld is quite a large town, but does have services to Glasgow, Falkirk and Motherwell.
 

Alan2603

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A City without a direct connection to London?

Up here, we have a City without a railway full stop.

The City of Ripon!

Ok, it is only a small City, but a City never-the-less.
 

Wtloild

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Middlesbrough / Teeside is the standout for me.

Also, the combined boroughs of Blackburn, Hyndburn (Accrington), Burnley, Pendle (Nelson & Colne) form a relatively uninterrupted conurbation & have a combined population of about 400k.
It can require an up to 70min trip just to reach the WCML (Colne-Preston).
 

Whistler40145

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Indeed, East Lancashire is a distance from Preston, Manchester and Leeds by rail for onward connections to London.
 

RLBH

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A City without a direct connection to London?

Up here, we have a City without a railway full stop.

The City of Ripon!

Ok, it is only a small City, but a City never-the-less.
Ah, but the unfortunate city of St Davids not only has no railway, but has never had one. Nor, as far as I know, has there ever been a proposal to give it a railway.
 

delt1c

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Why should everywhere have a direct service to London. It is not the center of the universe. Lets get real and look at logical services
 

FtoE

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Two large towns I can think of without any services to London surely must be Ayr & Kilmarnock.

Cumbernauld is quite a large town, but does have services to Glasgow, Falkirk and Motherwell.
Dunfermline and Livingston too. Both > 60,000 (inc their suburbs)
 

THC

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It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So Northern Ireland is in the uk but not in GB.

And of course the whole of Ireland is part of the British Isles.

That's not how we see it. The term "British Isles", when extended to the whole of Ireland, is viewed by most Irish people as both political and irredentist in nature. You may see it as geographical but we don't, instead referring to "these islands" when talking about B&I.

THC
 

InOban

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Which is why the term is hardly ever used, even in the UK
 

Bedpan

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Ah, but the unfortunate city of St Davids not only has no railway, but has never had one. Nor, as far as I know, has there ever been a proposal to give it a railway.
I was going to post the same thing, but then deleted it when I realised that the thread title was "Largest towns/cities....without a direct rail link to London", as I'm not sure that St Davids, with a population of under 2000, really fits the bill. Fair play to Ripon though in that it's the largest city (or at least the largest city on the list of cities that I found with a population of less than 100,000) with no London service. In between St Davids and Ripon are Wells (about 10.500) and St Asaph (about 3,500).
 

WYSH

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Southport, Barnsley or Barrow-In-Furness I’d say are up there in top 10
 
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