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Class 314 Withdrawals

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jazza374

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If these units had 1/2 the motors cut-out, the same a one power car being dead, then it would also have a multi-only restriction.

With DC motors, when only half the motors are working on a unit it accelerates at a lower rate and the train balances at a lower top speed (and higher motor current), it means the motors are drawing the higher currents for a longer period, This is within the short term (one hour) rating limits of the motor, but not the continuous rating. If you exceed the continuous rating for more than one hour, even though you're within the one hour rating, you risk overheating the motors and damaging the insulation, and so lead to potential motor failures.

Operating with another good unit means the train is effectively at 3/4 power instead of 1/2 power, and the motor continuous rating CAN accommodate the extra motor current without damage. Hence the 314s can run multi only, and not singly, with 1/2 motors cut out. This was requirement when BR specified these and similar units at that time.

The half-power situation is specified and designed to give enough time for a single unit to run at least one hour in service to complete its run, before being run or towed back to depot. It was included in the BR specification that a good unit should be able to rescue a dead unit (again 1/2 power) and get it to a siding or depot to clear running lines within the one hour period, as were doing repeated starts of a unit on 1/2 power on a specified incline without motor overheating.

Early in my career, I was present at on-line type testing in 1979 of a very similar build (Class 507 units) for both repeated starts on an incline (northbound out of Moorfield onto the original viaduct) and dead unit rescue from Southport to Kirkdate depot. Not done one after the other of course!! Unit 507.012 was used if I recall correctly...…

Very interesting explanations, thank you for taking the time to explain.
 

youngac

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There was one 314 at Yoker Depot when I passed on the train today.
No idea what number it was.

I’m guessing it was 212 since 303032’s sightings confirm all other units were either in service, at Shields or at Corkerhill. That would seem to suggest that withdrawal has resumed.
 

Dave91131

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I’m guessing it was 212 since 303032’s sightings confirm all other units were either in service, at Shields or at Corkerhill. That would seem to suggest that withdrawal has resumed.

212 never re-entered service, unlike 207 & 213 which were briefly stood down then reinstated.

No re-commencement of further withdrawals yet to my knowledge.
 

MK Tom

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Aiming my Glasgow visit for the last week of November so hopefully I'll be able to catch one on a Paisley Canal working around then!
 

youngac

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It has been posted elsewhere that 204 and 213 have now been withdrawn and are now at Yoker with 212.
 

Bod

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I am not surprised about 213 as it appeared to be coated in graffiti when I was up there recently to get 203 so I couldn't see them using 213 in service. 205 was scrubbed free of graffiti but it is still on the roof parts of the unit and it looked a right state.
 

GLC

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I am not surprised about 213 as it appeared to be coated in graffiti when I was up there recently to get 203 so I couldn't see them using 213 in service. 205 was scrubbed free of graffiti but it is still on the roof parts of the unit and it looked a right state.
I can’t say I’ve ever seen a Scotrail train with graffiti anywhere on it (although I I’ve only recently started travelling on trains), but the last few weeks the 314s seem to be covered in hastily scrubbed off graffiti. A sad epilogue to 40 years of service I think
 

alangla

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I can’t say I’ve ever seen a Scotrail train with graffiti anywhere on it (although I I’ve only recently started travelling on trains), but the last few weeks the 314s seem to be covered in hastily scrubbed off graffiti. A sad epilogue to 40 years of service I think

Happens a fair bit AIUI, but SQUIRE prevents them being used in service until they’re cleaned. Spot-Rail livery seems to be pretty durable in terms of getting graffiti off of it without looking terrible.
 

Fleetwood Boy

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I might have gone completely bonkers but I’m pretty sure I was on 213 last week. Certainly had 205 a couple of times which feels a bit “different” with its leftover graffiti. Runs well though.

314s have been fantastic units, will be sorry to see them go.
 

youngac

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Was told that the withdrawn units now have their pantographs down at Yoker. Does this mean that a scrap move is imminent or can the units still be reinstated if needs be?
 

Bikeman78

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I am not surprised about 213 as it appeared to be coated in graffiti when I was up there recently to get 203 so I couldn't see them using 213 in service. 205 was scrubbed free of graffiti but it is still on the roof parts of the unit and it looked a right state.
You are lucky. 314203 failed on the 17th and hasn't worked since. Could be game over.
 

youngac

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Think another unit may have failed this afternoon. The 1445 Central - Newton was cancelled due to a train failure. This service is usually done by a 314.
 

Highlandspring

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Think another unit may have failed this afternoon. The 1445 Central - Newton was cancelled due to a train failure. This service is usually done by a 314.
211 poor performance/traction motors isolated. Replaced by 207.
 

Fleetwood Boy

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Bit of a strange one because despite the 380s returning from bailing out theE&G etc, I haven’t noticed any 314 diagrams switching to 380s. So what are the 380s doing?
 

snookertam

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Bit of a strange one because despite the 380s returning from bailing out theE&G etc, I haven’t noticed any 314 diagrams switching to 380s. So what are the 380s doing?

Maybe not yet, but a fair few of them may be changing over from Dec 9th.
 

RJMC

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21 Nov 2018
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Bit of a strange one because despite the 380s returning from bailing out theE&G etc, I haven’t noticed any 314 diagrams switching to 380s. So what are the 380s doing?

380s have been operating on the Neilston line on Sunday for at least the last two weekends. Yet to see them on a weekday, still a mix of 314s for the majority of the time though the withdrawals have meant a lot of services usually run by 6 car 314s are now 3.
 

route101

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380s have been operating on the Neilston line on Sunday for at least the last two weekends. Yet to see them on a weekday, still a mix of 314s for the majority of the time though the withdrawals have meant a lot of services usually run by 6 car 314s are now 3.

Service around 5 was booked a 380 when i took it .
 

snookertam

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380s have been operating on the Neilston line on Sunday for at least the last two weekends. Yet to see them on a weekday, still a mix of 314s for the majority of the time though the withdrawals have meant a lot of services usually run by 6 car 314s are now 3.

The 6 car 314 workings are still booked as six cars unless there's a shortage due to maintenance issues.

1703 Glasgow Central to Neilston and return, 1815 Cathcart inner circle, 1905 Glasgow Central to Neilston and return are all a cl380 3 car - there's been morning 380 workings on the Cathcart circle for a number of years now.
 

stantheman

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I was on a rover last Sat
Just one 314 on Gourock 202 , did 0855 , 1055 , and 1255 ex GC
Surprise was 314216 on Wemyss Bay , did 1057 and 1257 ex. GC and earlier workings
Paisley Canal had 314211 and a 380
Neilston and Cathcart all 314
Newton a mixture
Double 314s , looking at my camera times and locations , Mount Florida set dep Cathcart direction at 1415 , set dep MFlorida for Neilston or Newton 1430, think Newton . At least 2 double sets out to play , hope this useful
 

GLC

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Can someone please tell me which services are booked for 6 car class 314's?
Thanks.
IIRC the 1737 Glasgow Central to Neilston is 6 car. Half the set failed 2 evenings ago and it had to depart as a 3 car. Some very squashed looking passengers that night!
 

djpontrack

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IIRC the 1737 Glasgow Central to Neilston is 6 car. Half the set failed 2 evenings ago and it had to depart as a 3 car. Some very squashed looking passengers that night!

Thanks for that, I will try to have a ride on that service next week when I'm in Glasgow.
 

snookertam

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Can someone please tell me which services are booked for 6 car class 314's?
Thanks.

To my knowledge...

1650 Cathcart Outer Circle
1718 Glasgow Central to Neilston and return (Outward is express to Muirend)
1737 Glasgow Central to Neilston and return
1806 Glasgow Central to Neilston and return
1835 Glasgow Central to Neilston and return

There's a few in the morning as well but not sure of departure times from Central. IIRC there's a Cathcart Inner at 0819 (??) that's a six, along with 0845 Glasgow Central to Newton and return.

Think there's some 6 cars on Friday evenings as well to Neilston, as well as on Sundays. Definitely so this Sunday as the League Cup final is on at Hampden.
 

djpontrack

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To my knowledge...

1650 Cathcart Outer Circle
1718 Glasgow Central to Neilston and return (Outward is express to Muirend)
1737 Glasgow Central to Neilston and return
1806 Glasgow Central to Neilston and return
1835 Glasgow Central to Neilston and return

There's a few in the morning as well but not sure of departure times from Central. IIRC there's a Cathcart Inner at 0819 (??) that's a six, along with 0845 Glasgow Central to Newton and return.

Think there's some 6 cars on Friday evenings as well to Neilston, as well as on Sundays. Definitely so this Sunday as the League Cup final is on at Hampden.

Thanks for that snookertam, I will have a look at these next week when I’m in Glasgow :D
 

303032

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I've been in at Glasgow Central on Saturdays a couple of times in the 6 weeks and have seen the 314's on the following workings during mornings / early afternoons

  • xx.20 Glasgow Central - Newton via Queens Park and xx.49 return - tends to be the same unit most of the day (although on 16th November 314201 was swapped for 314210 from the 12.20 journey onwards) the xx.45 - Newton via Maxwell Park and the Cathcart Inner / Outer services are usually either a 318 or 320
  • xx.12 Glasgow Central - Paisley Canal (the xx.42 is usually a 380/1)
  • the xx.05 and xx.35 services to Neilston are all 314 operated and usually at least 2 out of 3 and sometimes all 3 of the diagrams are 6 car
  • the 10.55 and 12.55 to Gourock and the 10.57 and 12.57 to Weymss Bay services
 

JModulo

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17 Nov 2013
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I've been in at Glasgow Central on Saturdays a couple of times in the 6 weeks and have seen the 314's on the following workings during mornings / early afternoons
  • the 10.55 and 12.55 to Gourock

The unit that goes onto this also does the 09.06 Glasgow to Gourock and return, usually 314 operated.
 

SC318250

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4 Jun 2011
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Travelled on 314209 from Bishopton to Glasgow Central.
Passing Shields 314207/211 were stables pan down. Think 207 had wheel chocks on
314208 also present pan up
 
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