Former Sleeper Services

[mrcheek]

Ive often come across references to former British Rail sleeper services that no longer run, such as London to Barrow. But does anybody have a list of all of the discontinued sleepers?

 

[flymo]

There are a few listed in my 1975- 1976 that no longer run. (Not withstanding the move from Kings Cross to Euston)

To name a few

Euston - Stranraer Harbour via Dumfries & Ayr
Kings Cross - Newcastle via Eaglescliffe , Hartlepool & Sunderland
Paddington - Milford Haven
Nottingham - Glasgow Central via Derby, Sheffield, Rotherham, Leeds, Skipton, Appleby, Carlisle, Dumfries & Kilmarnock.
Bristol TM - Edinburgh / Glasgow Central.

When I get round to it I'll try to put together a better list of what ran overnight then.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Forgot to mention

Euston - Manchester Piccadilly / Liverpool Lime Street

 

[krus_aragon]

In the film 'The Bank Job', a scene at a London terminal shows a poster of sleeper services in the background behind Jason Statham, with the routes of the 70s shown in red on the map. The quick glance was quite an eye opener for me.

 

[gordonthemoron]

others:

Edinburgh-Inverness
Aberdeen-Glasgow
Monkseaton-London via Newcastle

 

[dk1]

Holyhead was once served from Euston too.

The Bristol-Glasgow/Edinburgh started back at Plymouth towards the end. i remember catching this from Newton Abbot to Glasgow back in the early 90s. Hardly worth getting the berth as we were still supping in the lounge car at New Street!

 

[gordonthemoron]

AFAIR there were two Aberdeen-KX sleepers in the 80's, one of which picked up sleeping cars in Newcastle and possibly Leeds

 

[EltonRoad]

The Plymouth - Scotland Sleeper had a portion from Poole as well. Got discontinued though.

 

[merlodlliw]

Holyhead was once served from Euston too.

it was one way only Holyhead to Euston, one sleeper coach, this connected off the now long gone helicopter service from Dublin. Ex Holyhead 1.15a.m. Irish Mail.

The coach was sent back empty each day connected to the 1.00 p.m. down Euston to Holyhead. middle 1970s.


And of course the Night Ferry into/out of Victoria to Paris.

 

[CallySleeperKid]

Nottingham - Glasgow Central via Derby, Sheffield, Rotherham, Leeds, Skipton, Appleby, Carlisle, Dumfries & Kilmarnock.

Bring it back, please!

 

[delt1c]

Never rember an Aberdeen to Glasgow service, when did that run? One interesting one was the leeds to Kings Cross Sleeper which in the 1970's included 08 haulage , as it was shunted at doncaster onto another service.
Another intersting one was the Edinburgh/Glasgow to Inverness service as this used the triangle avoiding Inverness then reversed in , the front coaches then being used for an early Wick ? Thurso service.
Similairly the fortwilliam service used to detatch from the inverness service at Mossend and be tripped into Queen St and could use anything from a 20 - 27 then at queen st a Restueuant car and passenger coaches were added and this formed the 06.30 (I think) service to fort William and Mallaig, this service had the finest breakfast on any Br service in the 70's

 

[hiddeneurope]

The 1961 Bradshaw shows such gems as

1. 7.15 pm on Friday evenings from Euston to Oban
2. 9.00 pm daily from Perth to Euston *
3. 8.05 pm daily from Plymouth to Manchester
4. 9.30 pm on Sundays Paddington to Carmarthen (via Gloucester).
5. 12.20 am daily Euston to Liverpool Lime St.
6. 12.10 am (SuX) Euston to Preston
7. 10.55 pm (SSuX) Euston to Whitehaven Corkickle
8. 9.25 pm daily from St Pancras to Glasgow St Enoch (via Sheffield)
9. 10.25 pm daily Newcastle to Kings Cross via Sunderland.

* Nos. 2 is in addition to the Inverness to London Euston Royal Highlander Sleeper service which of course also served Perth.

Penzance benefitted from TWO direct trains with sleepers to London, both running all seven days of the week. Departures were at 9 pm and 9.45 pm, with the latter conveying sleeping car passengers only.

Shared use of a two berth second class sleeper compartment in 1961 generally cost an additional fee of just one pound (beyond the regular second class ticket).

I hope this will be of interest.

 

[Turbostar]

No offence, but what, if at all it did run, was the point in a Aberdeen to Glasgow sleeper, seeing that the normal journey time is around 2hrs 30min??? Seems a bit pointless to me. :roll:

 

[Matt Taylor]

There used to be a Liverpool/Manchester to Euston sleeper which attatched and detatched at Stafford, I have some pictures of it taken after alighting at Lime Street as recently as 1990.

 

[Old Timer]

From memory in 1970s

Down WCML

1S07 2045 Euston to Stranraer Hbr
1P46 2250 Euston to Preston
1S09 2300 Euston to Inverness
1S25 2330 Euston to Glasgow (Via GSW)
1S26 2350 Euston to Glasgow
1S27 Euston to Fort William
1S19 Bristol (Later Plymouth) to Edingburgh and Glasgow Via B'ham
1Sxx Nottingham to Glasgow

UP WCML

1A00 2045 Barrow to Euston
1A01 xxxx Liverpool / Manchester to Euston
1A04 0125 Holyhead to Euston (Irish Mail)
1Vxx 2200 Glasgow/Edinburgh to Bristol Via B'ham
1M10 2230 Glasgow to Euston via (GSW)
1M11 2330 Glasgow to Euston r/a ex Motherwell
1M14 xxxx Stranraer Hbr to Euston
1M15 1930 Inverness to Euston (Royal Highlander)
1M16 xxxx Fort William to Euston


Down GW

xxxx Kensington Olympia to St Austell
01 25 Paddington to Swansea
23 30 (?) Paddington to Penzance

Up GW

2250 Penzance to Paddington
xxxx Swansea to Paddington ?


Down GN

KX to Aberdeen
KX to Edinburgh
KX to Newcastle

Up GN

Newcastle to KX
Edinburgh to KX
Aberdeen to KX

Times / Reporting Numbers may be slightly out (against train service) so apologies but it was a long time ago.

 

[ungreat]

I once caught a sleeper from Paddington-Penzance in 1988 to go and see a girlfriend in Newquay...was hauled by a 50 IIRC.

 

[yorkie]

No offence, but what, if at all it did run, was the point in a Aberdeen to Glasgow sleeper, seeing that the normal journey time is around 2hrs 30min??? Seems a bit pointless to me. :roll:

I think this has become a thread about night services...

When I get round to it I'll try to put together a better list of what ran overnight then.

...this would be interesting, but it would be even better if Sleepers & night services that only convey seated accommodation could be distinguished.

In 1987 for example there was an overnight (non-sleeper) 125 service from King's Cross to Edinburgh departing at 2255 on Saturdays, arriving Edinburgh 0827 (plenty of time allowed for possessions), the last train now is 2h25 earlier only to Newcastle! On weekdays there was both a 2320 "Nightrider" 125 service and 2335 Sleeper. Despite going via Leeds the Nightrider arrived in Edinburgh 2 hours earlier. There was also a 2215 sleeper to Aberdeen! This was in addition to numerous sleepers from Euston.

 

[jopsuk]

Which of these had Motorail carriages? I know a lot of those stations did have the facilites (such as St Austell and Kensington Olympia!)

 

[Helvellyn]

Buried somewhere I may still have a late 1980s Sleeper leaflet.

The main Sleeper services at this time, after the withdrawal of ECML services were: -

Euston-Inverness (Royal Highlander)
Euston-Aberdeen (Night Aberdonian)
Euston-Edinburgh (Night Scotsman)
Euston-Glasgow (Night Caledonian)
Paddington-Plymouth/Penzance (Night Riveria)

In addition though there were such gems as: -

Euston-Fort William (which survived privatisation)
Euston-Carlisle (2 coaches attached/detached from Night Caledonian)
Euston-Stranraer
Euston-Barrow
Euston-Liverpool/Manchester
Glasgow/Edinburgh-Plymouth
Glasgow/Edinburgh-Poole

Only Fort William and Carlisle survived on the WCML into the early 1990s (alongside the main four), the Poole service also went too, though Plymouth lasted a bit longer.

I can't recall the internal Scottish Sleeper routes, but I believe it was Glasgow-Inveress and Glasgow-Aberdeen, perhaps with some seated coaches too. Certainly ScotRail had some Mk 3 SLEPS allocated to it in the late 1980s, and the last Mk 1 Sleeping Cars survived into 1984 for the Inverness services.

Of course it was an even bigger network in the 1970s, with some routes having multiple trains, portions to various places, etc. BR hoped even in the early 1980s to keep that traffic, with a fleet of 210 Mk 3 Sleepers built, though the last two SLEs never entered public traffic and both builds of SLEPs and SLEs were curtailed, and some vehicles were withdrawn with less than ten years of service.

Interestingly, though the five Anglo-Scottish services survived privatisation the Motorail service that was offered on all five did not. I don't know if it made money or not, and it was likely extremely seasonal, but it would have contributed a couple of sleeping cars worth of passengers at busy times on say the Royal Highlander. Of course where there five Anglo-Scottish Sleepers operated by InterCity, ScotRail now has two that split/join on route.

 

[Pegasus]

The 1961 Bradshaw shows such gems as
3. 8.05 pm daily from Plymouth to Manchester

This actually started back at Penzance and was routed via the North & West via the Severn Tunnel and Shrewsbury. There was also a corresponding service in the opposite direction.

 

[theblackwatch]

Must dig out the old timetables of my dads from the 1970s that my mum was going to chuck out but me and my brother hid in a cupboard to prevent them from being disposed of - I think I told her I'd kept some after I'd moved out and had them safely away from the house!

 

[the sniper]

Which of these had Motorail carriages?

If your taking into account Motorail sleeper services then no one has mentioned the services originating from Sutton Coldfield station in the West Midlands. I got my information from this site, which has now unfortunately died. If my memory serves me correctly, in the 70's there were Sleeper/Motorail services from there to Newton Abbot and somewhere in Scotland, maybe Stirling. Feel free to correct me on this though.

When passing through Sutton Coldfield station today it's hard to believe that it once dealt with such services.

 

[jopsuk]

Stirling certainly had a motorail terminal (gone now), I can remember seeing it (though not in use)

 

[djw1981]

What happened to the 210 Mk3 sleepers, given FSR use 4x16 IIRC and FGW - 2x8????

 

[Old Timer]

The Stirling Motorail services as far as I recall ran daytimes each way.

The St Austell ran overnight returning in the day so as to form that night's working.

 

[87031]

Shame so many of the sleeper services have gone i remember doing some crackin overnight 87 bashes 1S18 to Preston then 1M16 to Euston for 1S47 was a favourite. Back then you could board at Carlisle, Crewe and Preston instead of now where there set down and pick up only, 1M16 was 0323 off Preston used to bail on and crash in the luggage comaprtment under the seats in the old Mk2fs declassified. Do think Scotrail should do a Fort William/Oban sleeper spltting at Craienlarich as well as the exsisting Aberdeen/Inverness one. Suppose considering the way things are now we should be glad that the ones now are still running and long may they continue to run as well.

 

[90019]

What happened to the 210 Mk3 sleepers, given FSR use 4x16 IIRC and FGW - 2x8????

FSR have 53 and FGW have 50 IIRC, and I think there are a few others in various charter rakes.
I think there are quite a few on preserved railways (Not all operational, some in quite bad condition), but I don't think that accounts for all of them.

 

[flymo]

Just for interest I cobbled together some of the night services on the ECML in the 75/76 timetable. These just show the Monday - Friday services as well as I can make them out. I included the late night services as well as the overnight services to better show the range of services available.

Hope this is of interest.

Edit: Changed the layout of the photos to put in the arr & dep times as much as I can find. No doubt there are a few errors here and there but this is just an example of what there was running back then.