Derby to Crewe EMT services

[43055]

The Derby - Crewe service in its own right doesn't really have great traffic potential - Stoke station only serves a small area of the wider 'Stoke on Trent' area, Crewe is usually a destination to access other, long distance services. Between Stoke and Derby there isn't anywhere significant served.

Considering almost every service is well used I would say it could have potential to grow. I do have to agree about Crewe and Stoke on Trent but the stations between Stoke and Derby are at times well used. I don't often go towards the Crewe end of the route. During peak times there can be up to 20 people from Tutbury to Derby and back in the evening and even just as many in the opposite direction and I have seen this much outside of peaks as well at times. Alton towers and Uttoxeter racecourse also helps as the 1442 the other Friday was full and standing at the point of almost leaving people behind with passengers going to Alton towers.

At least until HS2 arrives, if it ever does. I've been following this thread for old times sake, as 40+ years ago my wife and I were users, since she came from Derby and we lived in Glasgow. It was a busy little train then, and I am surprised that it seems to have become poorer over the years. How good are the connections with the Birmingham to Scotland services? I would have thought that an extension to Nottingham would be obvious, but the biggest needis for Stoke to get out of the economic doldrums.

There's good connections at both ends of the route for Scotland services. Crewe has around 6 to 10 minutes each direction and Derby is just over 15 minutes in each direction.

 

[tommy2215]

as the 1442 the other Friday was full and standing

Not exactly difficult given most of the time its only one coach!

 

[Whistler40145]

I used this line from Derby to Crewe last year and unfortunately due to problems with unruly football fans we kept being delayed all the way to Stoke on Trent, where the service terminated, the down side was at no time did the on train staff tell passengers how they were supposed to travel onwards to Crewe, to my knowledge this was left up to the platform staff at British Transport Police officers, doesn't look to good in my opinion.

 

[A0wen]

Considering almost every service is well used I would say it could have potential to grow. I do have to agree about Crewe and Stoke on Trent but the stations between Stoke and Derby are at times well used. I don't often go towards the Crewe end of the route. During peak times there can be up to 20 people from Tutbury to Derby and back in the evening and even just as many in the opposite direction and I have seen this much outside of peaks as well at times. Alton towers and Uttoxeter racecourse also helps as the 1442 the other Friday was full and standing at the point of almost leaving people behind with passengers going to Alton towers.


There's good connections at both ends of the route for Scotland services. Crewe has around 6 to 10 minutes each direction and Derby is just over 15 minutes in each direction.

Up to 20 people between Derby and Tutbury at peak probably explains why 153s (seating capacity 66-72) are rostered for it.

The races are only on certain days. Alton Towers is more of a draw but for the stations up to Stoke that will only be from the Derby end as IIRC the bus for Alton Towers leaves from outside Stoke station.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Up to 20 people between Derby and Tutbury at peak probably explains why 153s (seating capacity 66-72) are rostered for it.

The races are only on certain days. Alton Towers is more of a draw but for the stations up to Stoke that will only be from the Derby end as IIRC the bus for Alton Towers leaves from outside Stoke station.

That’s 20 people getting on/off at Tutbury. There’s already a train full (and more!) from the other stations on the route

 

[43055]

Up to 20 people between Derby and Tutbury at peak probably explains why 153s (seating capacity 66-72) are rostered for it.

The races are only on certain days. Alton Towers is more of a draw but for the stations up to Stoke that will only be from the Derby end as IIRC the bus for Alton Towers leaves from outside Stoke station.

I think the bus does run from the station at Stoke but it is only once a day now since the 32a has been withdrawn? There's always seems to be taxis at Uttoxeter asking if anyone is going to alton towers at the station.

That’s 20 people getting on/off at Tutbury. There’s already a train full (and more!) from the other stations on the route

Yes yesterday morning was standing on arrival at Tutbury at both ends.

 

[Whistler40145]

Is it still the normal practice for services not to run on Sunday mornings?

Does anyone know why?

 

[PHILIPE]

Is it still the normal practice for services not to run on Sunday mornings?

Does anyone know why?

Understand due to signal box costs

 

[Whistler40145]

Thanks for your reply

 

[Deafdoggie]

Supposed to be in the new East Midland franchise...but time will tell. The services do start very late on a Sunday. There’s only the one shift (14:00-22:00) in all the boxes between Stoke & Derby.

 

[edwin_m]

Understand due to signal box costs

Isn't it being re-signalled soon? Like Spalding to Doncaster that may allow a better service in the new franchise.

 

[vlad]

Up to 20 people between Derby and Tutbury at peak probably explains why 153s (seating capacity 66-72) are rostered for it.

There may be more people wanting to travel who can't physically fit on the train.

From experience I'd say standing room only is the norm. Regular travellers from Derby will know that you can only really guarantee a seat by getting on the train when it arrives (20 minutes before it leaves).

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Isn't it being re-signalled soon? Like Spalding to Doncaster that may allow a better service in the new franchise.

2016 was the date stated on another thread. Seems not to have happened!
Very quiet now on the matter.
Talk of singling the track through Meir Tunnel for 'gauge enhancement' reasons, no rumours of how far either side would also be singled. In the current timetable trains cross at Stoke and east of Uttoxeter.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

There may be more people wanting to travel who can't physically fit on the train.

From experience I'd say standing room only is the norm. Regular travellers from Derby will know that you can only really guarantee a seat by getting on the train when it arrives (20 minutes before it leaves).

I've never been left behind but I have been on services where it has happened to others. Saturday race meetings and football fixtures can generate large numbers of passengers at specific times. If the extra capacity is provided at the wrong time of day, people get left behind. One example, a couple of years ago, was the first day of the season and Port Vale were away to Crewe. Single car 153 full and standing leaving Stoke, crammed including the rear cab at Longport (the nearest station to Burslem / Port Vale land) with people left behind (no alternative LM service at Longort remember). Even more left behind at Kidsgrove.
A second example, 1607 EMT service from Crewe cancelled, following 1702 LM service cancelled, 1707 EMT service, a single 153, and I seem to remember counting something like 150 hot and sweaty souls as far as Stoke.

 

[Class 170101]

Supposed to be in the new East Midland franchise...but time will tell. The services do start very late on a Sunday. There’s only the one shift (14:00-22:00) in all the boxes between Stoke & Derby.

Why only an eight hour shift and not a single 12 hour shift then? Is this how the new franchisee will improve the Sunday service on this route?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Why only an eight hour shift and not a single 12 hour shift then? Is this how the new franchisee will improve the Sunday service on this route?

No idea. Currently no trains before 06:00 or after 22:00 between Stoke and Derby Mon-Sat and 14:00-22:00 Sun.
it always has been, is probably the answer.

 

[Trainfan344]

Well 06:00 to 14:00 and 14:00 to 22:00 is two times 8 hours shifts, meaning that they only need 2 sets of signallers and they can alternate Sundays as needed. If you open the boxes longer, this requires more staff training on the boxes...

 

[Trainfan344]

On a seperate note, yesterday's 14:33 ex Stoke was an ex FGW unit. Definitely seemed to be struggling and lost time to Derby.

 

[duffield]

It's always unfortunate and inconvenient for some people to lose a through service, but I do think that *if* you can only have one of them, Nottingham to Matlock is now more useful than Nottingham to Crewe. Also back in the pre-privatisation days there were major data centres and associated IT staff at Nottingham and Crewe, there were a lot of rail IT staff using this route regularly (including me).
The connections for Matlock at Derby from Nottingham used to be appalling.

 

[edwin_m]

A Derby-Matlock shuttle was always a problem because the journey was just too long to do a reliable round trip in an hour, so it tended to have various odd timings and didn't fit well as the longer-distance trains went more clockface. All-stations Derby-Nottingham shuttles didn't feature much in the timetable but if they had they would have had the same sort of problem (which was probably one reason why they didn't). Combining the two meant that putting one extra unit into the circuit allowed enough layover at both ends for the service to be reliable.

Derby to Crewe is about 1hr 21min so is quite tight for a unit to do a round trip in 3hr including layovers both ends. The public timetable layover at Crewe is typically 3min and was similarly short even when it ran through to Nottingham, so I think there must be some pathing reason why it is shorter than the Derby turnaround.

 

[Deafdoggie]

A Derby-Matlock shuttle was always a problem because the journey was just too long to do a reliable round trip in an hour, so it tended to have various odd timings and didn't fit well as the longer-distance trains went more clockface. All-stations Derby-Nottingham shuttles didn't feature much in the timetable but if they had they would have had the same sort of problem (which was probably one reason why they didn't). Combining the two meant that putting one extra unit into the circuit allowed enough layover at both ends for the service to be reliable.

Derby to Crewe is about 1hr 21min so is quite tight for a unit to do a round trip in 3hr including layovers both ends. The public timetable layover at Crewe is typically 3min and was similarly short even when it ran through to Nottingham, so I think there must be some pathing reason why it is shorter than the Derby turnaround.

Pre-sprinter days, the train used to arrive in Crewe around twenty to the hour, and leave at twenty past the hour. It went to all manner of exotic locations, including Lincoln! Then sprinters came and it went Crewe-Skegness, I did do the journey a couple of times, but it was quite wearing! But there was demand for Crewe-Nottingham (and other stations Crewe-Derby to Nottingham of course) but this has slowly been killed off with the loss of the direct service.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Pre-sprinter days, the train used to arrive in Crewe around twenty to the hour, and leave at twenty past the hour. It went to all manner of exotic locations, including Lincoln! Then sprinters came and it went Crewe-Skegness, I did do the journey a couple of times, but it was quite wearing! But there was demand for Crewe-Nottingham (and other stations Crewe-Derby to Nottingham of course) but this has slowly been killed off with the loss of the direct service.

If you catch the early service from Crewe, there is a stampede from the (ex) Crewe train to the Nottingham train. The guard sometime announces the platform number.

When the through service was destroyed, sorry I meant, the customer experience was enhanced, there was an instruction issued from on-high to re-time one of the Derby - Nottingham trains in order to offer a reasonable connection from the Crewe - Derby train.

 

[Deafdoggie]

If you catch the early service from Crewe, there is a stampede from the (ex) Crewe train to the Nottingham train. The guard sometime announces the platform number.

When the through service was destroyed, sorry I meant, the customer experience was enhanced, there was an instruction issued from on-high to re-time one of the Derby - Nottingham trains in order to offer a reasonable connection from the Crewe - Derby train.

The first train of the day from Crewe is often a 158 and forms the service to Nottingham. They will announce this on the train...usually.

 

[thenorthern]

Its mostly run by a single coach Class 153 DMU except as others have pointed out the first service of the day from Crewe is a Class 158 and so are some of the evening services. On Fridays though for most of the day its run by a Class 153, a doubled up Class 153 and a Class 158.

When Central Trains operated the line it was mostly run by Class 170s but they have long since disappeared from the East Midlands.

 

[43055]

If you catch the early service from Crewe, there is a stampede from the (ex) Crewe train to the Nottingham train. The guard sometime announces the platform number.

When the through service was destroyed, sorry I meant, the customer experience was enhanced, there was an instruction issued from on-high to re-time one of the Derby - Nottingham trains in order to offer a reasonable connection from the Crewe - Derby train.

The first train of the day from Crewe is often a 158 and forms the service to Nottingham. They will announce this on the train...usually.

Just to make it even better now the unit in the morning now shuts between platforms at Derby to allow for the Cardiff service to use the same platform.

 

[duffield]

When Central Trains operated the line it was mostly run by Class 170s but they have long since disappeared from the East Midlands.

They might have disappeared from the East Midlands franchise, but they certainly haven't disappeared from the East Midlands!

 

[Mugby]

I travelled from Derby to Stoke and back this afternoon (Saturday) and it was a 3-car set in both directions, 158 + 153.

I was surprised by this because Stoke City were playing away and there wasn't a race meeting at Uttoxeter. However, I was even more surprised on the return journey to learn that 3 cars won't fit in the platform at Blythe Bridge. The 153 was leading and the conductor announced that only the doors on that unit would be opened (due to short platform etc.) I was sitting at the very rear of the 158 and I noticed that the rear door wasn't quite in the platform.

There was no issue at Blythe Bridge on the outward journey and I never knew the Derby platform was shorter and can't accommodate even 3 cars.

 

[bunnahabhain]

I travelled from Derby to Stoke and back this afternoon (Saturday) and it was a 3-car set in both directions, 158 + 153.

I was surprised by this because Stoke City were playing away and there wasn't a race meeting at Uttoxeter. However, I was even more surprised on the return journey to learn that 3 cars won't fit in the platform at Blythe Bridge. The 153 was leading and the conductor announced that only the doors on that unit would be opened (due to short platform etc.) I was sitting at the very rear of the 158 and I noticed that the rear door wasn't quite in the platform.

There was no issue at Blythe Bridge on the outward journey and I never knew the Derby platform was shorter and can't accommodate even 3 cars.

Three fit perfectly, you can't get four in however.

 

[Deafdoggie]

You certainly used to be able to. But I think the signal for the level crossing isn’t cleared till train stopped now, so it has to stop short of where it used to stop, as can’t go past signal.
It’s odd that 158’s we’re out, as that is what EMT are usually shortest of. On race days they usually string 153’s together and put a four car 222 out as that’s the usual spare stock. So sounds like something else wasn’t running and they had the spare stock.
Don’t think they usually strengthen for home games & the cynic in me says that’s because neither Stoke fan would notice

 

[bunnahabhain]

You certainly used to be able to. But I think the signal for the level crossing isn’t cleared till train stopped now, so it has to stop short of where it used to stop, as can’t go past signal.
It’s odd that 158’s we’re out, as that is what EMT are usually shortest of. On race days they usually string 153’s together and put a four car 222 out as that’s the usual spare stock. So sounds like something else wasn’t running and they had the spare stock.
Don’t think they usually strengthen for home games & the cynic in me says that’s because neither Stoke fan would notice

Usually a double yellow at Blythe Bridge to keep the barriers for Caverswall open to road traffic as long as possible, the signal hasn't moved in the 6 years since I first signed the route.