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First Greater Glasgow

Jordan Adam

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12 Sep 2017
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5,514
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Aberdeen
If First were to go back to Wrightbus stuff again, they’d be best sticking to a B5TL Gemini as they already have a large Cummins/Volvo engined fleet, throwing in a major amount of Daimler engined Streetdecks isnt keeping things as simple as possible, at this moment, I would rather drive a B5TL with a ZF box as opposed to the sluggish Voith fitted 400MMCs Glasgow have, Ive spoken to a few faces recently I knew while working at FiG years ago, and a few said the same that the Voith boxes make the 400s too damn sluggish.

I do think its odd but I do see sense that other areas of glasgow which arent affected by Glasgows LEZ should Be getting new buses as well.

On a side note..

while many talk about a bus being replaced I’d be determined to have more of FIGs large number of 2006 B7RLEs kept and refurbished heavily, FAR more heavily than FiGs current attempts, as Im aware, the Euro3 Engines can be retrofitted to bring them up to Euro6 standards by Eminox or Baumot and its not as if there unreliable to start with...


Considering the amount of troubles operators are having with B5TLs it would be stupid for First to go for them now. Voith E400s are just far too slow, with many drivers disliking them because of that. On the other hand the ZF Ecolife examples are much faster, and in my view the best 2 axle decker on the market.

By the time LEZ comes in those B7RLEs will be 16 years old. To me it makes far more logical sense to move them out of Glasgow rather than refit them, although i agree that a better effort should have been made to at least retrim and deep clean them.

Aberdeen's Platinum vehicles are now all between 10 and 11 years old, but internally and mechanically they're closer to a 4/5 year old bus, while the specification of them is nothing special compared to now. Platinum did what it set out to do and the vehicles are still internally and mechanically superb. Even now that we've just passed 5 years since the Geminis were refurbished i don't think they'll need an internal refurb for quite some time yet, clearly the quality of eLeather used on them was much better than that of vehicles out the factory!
 
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Realistic_Spy

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Joined
31 Oct 2018
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17
DtpWNx8W4AAWl6g.jpg:large


Saw the new 34/34A e200mmc at the hospital today. it looks nice in the green livery

this photo is from the FiG twitter, i didn't take a pic of the bus because my phone doesn't work
 

Gingerbus1991

Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
992
Considering the amount of troubles operators are having with B5TLs it would be stupid for First to go for them now. Voith E400s are just far too slow, with many drivers disliking them because of that. On the other hand the ZF Ecolife examples are much faster, and in my view the best 2 axle decker on the market.

By the time LEZ comes in those B7RLEs will be 16 years old. To me it makes far more logical sense to move them out of Glasgow rather than refit them, although i agree that a better effort should have been made to at least retrim and deep clean them.

Aberdeen's Platinum vehicles are now all between 10 and 11 years old, but internally and mechanically they're closer to a 4/5 year old bus, while the specification of them is nothing special compared to now. Platinum did what it set out to do and the vehicles are still internally and mechanically superb. Even now that we've just passed 5 years since the Geminis were refurbished i don't think they'll need an internal refurb for quite some time yet, clearly the quality of eLeather used on them was much better than that of vehicles out the factory!
As it is at the moment I really, REALLY don‘t understand why there is still B7L and B10BLEs running around glasgow and Ive to believe that many of the 12 year old eclipse urbans should be limited by there age, if it werent for the LEZ, FiG would've done the usual thing that has left Glaswegians with a bad taste in there mouth for litterally coming up on 2 decades, provide old buses for far too long, if those B7RLEs were heavily invested in they could live until 20 yrs old, with some tlc anyways.

Instead of the 34 getting new buses, why not new ones for the 2 etc, then refurb and cascade the then heavily refurbished Enviro 300s to the 34?
This would been a far simpler job whilst being able to put Euro6 buses on the 2’s which tdo go into the Zone.

I said before and Id say it again FiGs latest purchases are certainly an improvement from the stuff there replacing but certainly are nothing special aside from USB charging ports, aside from other extras that wouldve been nice as well, next stop announcment, extra glazing on the roof, wood effect flooring etc etc

Anyways, the purchasing thats being made for the likes of the 241 etc couldve obviously had the B7RLEs facelifted and heavily refurbed and would never had to go near the LEZ zone, meaning that refurb wouldve cost £15000 less, obviously because a new emission system wouldnt have been needed.

I dont know if there would be any success in the 34s traveling the clyde tunnel to the Uni of Glasgow, I simply can’t stand FiGs decisions or most of Firsts decisions anyways, They reek of cheapness, incompletion and while many think mr Jarvis is doing a good job its simple case of an english man doing a half-done job in glasgow.
 
Last edited:

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
As I see this at the moment I really, REALLY don‘t understand why there is still B7L and B10BLEs running around glasgow and Ive to believe that many of the 12 year old eclipse urbans should be limited by there age, if it werent for the LEZ, FiG would've done the usual thing that has left Glaswegians with a bad taste in there mouth for litterally coming up on 2 decades, provide old buses for far too long, if those B7RLEs were heavily invested in they could live until 20 yrs old, with some tlc anyways.

I said before and Id say it again FiGs latest purchases are certainly an improvement from the stuff there replacing but certainly are nothing special aside from USB charging ports, aside from other extras that wouldve been nice as well, next stop announcment, extra glazing on the roof, wood effect flooring etc etc

Anyways, the purchasing thats being made for the likes of the 241 etc couldve obviously had the B7RLEs facelifted and heavily refurbed and would never had to go near the LEZ zone, meaning that refurb wouldve cost £15000 less, obviously because a new emission system wouldnt have been needed.

I dont know if there would be any success in the 34s traveling the clyde tunnel to the Uni of Glasgow, I simply can’t stand FiGs decisions or most of Firsts decisions anyways, They reek of cheapness, incompletion and while many think mr Jarvis is doing a good job its simple case of an english man doing a half-done job in glasgow.

In all fairness the B10BLEs are not too old, most have only just hit 17 years old and they'll be gone soon, buses are designed to have a 15-20 year life span. As i've made clear before, in my view age is irrelevant, it's all about the quality of the vehicles and the B10BLEs are top quality motors, they just needed a refresh and better seats. Although from what i believe and have heard my local B10BLEs are in much better overall condition to that of Glasgows.

Regarding fleet age if you want to moan at anyone direct it at Stagecoach North Scotland who still had a 22 year old B10M along with some other similar aged vehicles in service until recently and still have a 20 year old S reg in service, these significantly outdated anything in service with Glasgow. That said i better take that back as the S reg is in better nick than most of the much younger buses in the fleet :lol:. I believe they still have some P/R reg vehicles in use around Cumbria too.

Investment is investment and First are clearly putting quite a significant amount of cash in to it. Albeit in order to catch up with a lack of investment in recent years. It would have made more sense to go with the same style of interiors on the refurbished Geminis which have proved popular, but perhaps given the size of the Glasgow operation they're wanting to keep stuff as standard as possible. I'm not qualified enough on the Glasgow network to comment on the 34 so i won't reply.

With regard to the last part of your comment, i think most of us on here already are aware you're dissatisfaction with First regardless of what they do. But we'll leave it at that.
 

Gingerbus1991

Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
992
In all fairness the B10BLEs are not too old, most have only just hit 17 years old and they'll be gone soon, buses are designed to have a 15-20 year life span. As i've made clear before, in my view age is irrelevant, it's all about the quality of the vehicles and the B10BLEs are top quality motors, they just needed a refresh and better seats. Although from what i believe and have heard my local B10BLEs are in much better overall condition to that of Glasgows.

Regarding fleet age if you want to moan at anyone direct it at Stagecoach North Scotland who still had a 22 year old B10M along with some other similar aged vehicles in service until recently and still have a 20 year old S reg in service, these significantly outdated anything in service with Glasgow. That said i better take that back as the S reg is in better nick than most of the much younger buses in the fleet :lol:. I believe they still have some P/R reg vehicles in use around Cumbria too.

Investment is investment and First are clearly putting quite a significant amount of cash in to it. Albeit in order to catch up with a lack of investment in recent years. It would have made more sense to go with the same style of interiors on the refurbished Geminis which have proved popular, but perhaps given the size of the Glasgow operation they're wanting to keep stuff as standard as possible. I'm not qualified enough on the Glasgow network to comment on the 34 so i won't reply.

With regard to the last part of your comment, i think most of us on here already are aware you're dissatisfaction with First regardless of what they do. But we'll leave it at that.
I have always saved this in my favorites as it describes perfectly why FiGs ridership has plummeted, it shows by way of others telling the story why not only my own opinion but the opinion of many other Glaswegians do not like FirstBus.

names aside, many Glasgow residents are aware of how much better Edinburgh has it despite Glasgow being scotlands largest city.

Its only the minority in Glasgow who believe first are doing a decent enough job.

https://www.reddit.com/r/glasgow/comments/2ijzh1/i_am_absolutely_sick_of_first_bus/
 

CM

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2010
Messages
667
I've always thought of First Bus as a company that's ran by people who haven't got a clue what they are actually doing. I've watched my local route in Glasgow going from being every 8-9 minutes with reasonably new vehicles to every 20 minutes (apparantly) with vehicles that are now 10-15 years old. You'd have thought that after they lost the ScotRail franchise that they'd try and claw back the passengers from the trains but they seem to have made no attempt whatsoever and instead have continued to alienate customers buy cutting routes and pushing fares up regularly.

Personally, for me, I think that First are now most likely in a state that they can't recover from and it's only a matter of time before someone high up at the company is going to have to admit they've made a complete hash of it.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
19,969
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
I have always saved this in my favorites as it describes perfectly why FiGs ridership has plummeted, it shows by way of others telling the story why not only my own opinion but the opinion of many other Glaswegians do not like FirstBus.

names aside, many Glasgow residents are aware of how much better Edinburgh has it despite Glasgow being scotlands largest city.

Its only the minority in Glasgow who believe first are doing a decent enough job.

https://www.reddit.com/r/glasgow/comments/2ijzh1/i_am_absolutely_sick_of_first_bus/

So you’ve always saved a FOUR year old bit of general complaining to your favourites. I don’t think anything else need be said :rolleyes:
 

lastbus

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9 Sep 2018
Messages
1,001
The 34 buses look smart in the green. Does anyone know what the pink e200s at Blantyre depot are for?
 

JumpinTrainz

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30 Jul 2018
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Taking the whole recession and difficult economic climate into account I have to agree - First seem to have ruined their trust in the general public.

Glasgow is a thriving city and the largest in Scotland yet as an operator I feel they’ve let us all down with high fares and a very poor fleet.

I do have to give Mr Jarvis credit in all this, though. For the first time in many years I would say FiG is heading in the right direction. Buses being refurbished is very unusual for First. They normally run their buses to the ground until they have nothing left to give then send them to the scrappy. So that’s a definite improvement. There’s no ignoring the investment we’ve had in the past year and the further buses which are due for 2019.

I’ve said it before but First ruined it for me about 10 years ago when they introduced this surge of unrefurbished Tridents from London which had been battered down there and arrived on some of our busiest routes in disgusting conditions and ruined them. Routes like the 60, 61, 41, 38 have never recovered from older buses when these routes received never buses at one time. It’s nice to see routes like the 18 receive new buses as it was long overdue.

On the whole I’m glad to see massive improvements and I hope they continue to stay on the ball because there has been a lot of trust lost in First and I can see exactly why.
 

alangla

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11 Apr 2018
Messages
1,178
Location
Glasgow
Routes like the 60, 61, 41, 38 have never recovered from older buses when these routes received never buses at one time.
I’d argue against the 41 - route branded H reg London Dominators?
The 60 (in its previous incarnation as the 40) was the first home of the Toiletboxes IIRC, the 38 was new R plate Darts at some crazy 12+ BPH frequency, then X plate Scanias and the 61 was the first low floor route of the lot, all IIRC
 

route101

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16 May 2010
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I’d argue against the 41 - route branded H reg London Dominators?
The 60 (in its previous incarnation as the 40) was the first home of the Toiletboxes IIRC, the 38 was new R plate Darts at some crazy 12+ BPH frequency, then X plate Scanias and the 61 was the first low floor route of the lot, all IIRC

60 still gets toiletboxes !
Remember the 38 using Darts . 38 was always in my eye the most frequent route in Glasgow .
 

route101

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Agreed any route could be up for grabs with these buses! The city version makes sense for the 500 perhaps slightly cheaper to make up for the higher spec they will no doubt order alongside it. This also comes with a posh looking glass staircase that first tend not to get for their buses unlike Lothian but no doubt would be suitable to the 500.

Are the e400 cities , suited for motorway work?
 

route101

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The most random of routes are being upgraded as of recent so I’m not ruling anything out.

The 38 literally gets anything flung on it. It would be nice to see some new stock for those routes. I always vision Streetdeckers for that route for some reason. I think routes like the 38E and 38B could run as single deck and the 38A and 38C as deckers.

The 38e and 38b still run through the city so deckers will be needed .
 

route101

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The bus i seen wasnt route branding just had the colour at the front of the bus
At first i thought it was buses for the 9. Only 4 of them so would not be enough. Maybe they are on the 2 as other caley E200mmcs are on that route.
 

JumpinTrainz

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At first i thought it was buses for the 9. Only 4 of them so would not be enough. Maybe they are on the 2 as other caley E200mmcs are on that route.

I don’t imagine they’ll be for the 2. Probably just being placed on there just now before being moved elsewhere I’d think. I doubt the 2 will be branded because a lot of the E300s on the 2 can be shared with the 3 Fromm Scotstoun so that would probably end up messy. I’ve noticed a lot of B7RLEs on the 2 as of recent branded for the 9. Also a lot of the ex-Manchester B7RLEs on the 60 too. The 2 would always welcome new buses but seems a bit random perhaps.
 

JumpinTrainz

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With the introduction of new buses to the 75, 18, 65, 241 and 34/34A have any buses started to be withdrawn now or has it allowed more B9TLs to be sent for refurbishment?
 

GaryMcEwan

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20 Aug 2013
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Bridgeton, Glasgow
With the introduction of new buses to the 75, 18, 65, 241 and 34/34A have any buses started to be withdrawn now or has it allowed more B9TLs to be sent for refurbishment?

The B7TL's that were on the 18 have started to go to Caledonia for the ex Parkhead routes. 31787 was on the 60A this afternoon.
 

JumpinTrainz

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30 Jul 2018
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The B7TL's that were on the 18 have started to go to Caledonia for the ex Parkhead routes. 31787 was on the 60A this afternoon.

It annoys me how ex Parkhead routes always get the oldest deckers. The 53 plates are horrid inside. We need more refurbished B9TLs not old B7TLs!!

The 60/60A appears to be getting a lot of old stock on it as of recent. More toilet boxes, B7RLEs and older B7TLs but mainly singles. Not sure why this is. Let’s hope the rumours are true and the route gets an upgrade.
 

route101

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It annoys me how ex Parkhead routes always get the oldest deckers. The 53 plates are horrid inside. We need more refurbished B9TLs not old B7TLs!!

The 60/60A appears to be getting a lot of old stock on it as of recent. More toilet boxes, B7RLEs and older B7TLs but mainly singles. Not sure why this is. Let’s hope the rumours are true and the route gets an upgrade.

Yeah , the older geminis are great buses but let down by there seats . Was on a 54 plate on 57 yesterday and a lot of seats were stained .B7RLES id say too

I thought the geminis and tridents at caley were on a common pool across the depot . Yeah noticed on 60 , 61 and 41 .
 

lastbus

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9 Sep 2018
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Not totally first related but coakley are to cease to operate service 107/109 in January. This was the result of a public inquiry. They are only allowed to do hires. I wonder if first will look to go onto this route.
 

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