Expansions for Scotland's rail network proposed

[Altnabreac]

Seems a long time that the East Linton/Reston openings have been talked about. Similar with Kintore, Dalcross & Winchburgh. Winchburgh should be ready to open on time for the December timetable change/electrification but no, still no sound of anything.

Winchburgh as I’ve mentioned before is tied up with a larger package of investment than just the station.

There was agreement to developer fund the station but it needed the schools to be funded before it could go ahead.

There is now a £58m investment in 3 new schools that has been agreed. This needed final parliamentary approval at Holyrood, which it received in September 2018.
https://www.scottishconstructionnow...-to-deliver-three-new-schools-in-west-lothian

Then there is a wider infrastructure investment in Roads, Motorway junction, station etc. Although the station was already agreed, other elements were not and the Council will not go ahead and fund the schools until the full funding package for infrastructure is agreed between the developer and Scottish Govenrment. This is under negotiation at present and is the final agreeemnt needed before work on the station can commence.

My guess is that May or December 2021 is the most likely opening date for Winchburgh station. Again my understanding is that the Stirling - Edinburgh 2tph fast will provide the services and the new timetable already makes allowance for this.

December 2020 may just be possible but I think it will be too tight as no contracts are signed yet, compared to Kintore where a December 2020 opening has seen work commencing in the last few months.

 

[Stopper]

Interesting that Winchburgh is proposed to be served by Edinburgh-Stirling semi-fasts rather than the slower Cumbernauld service. Wouldn’t provide a Glasgow link (directly or via a change at Linlithgow on to a shuttle) or a link for the many residents there that work or go to school in Linlithgow. Although possibly the new high school will be open there by then.

 

[InOban]

I was thinking the same, but it will be dependent on paths through both Newbridge and Haymarket junctions. The Almond Chord can't come soon enough.

 

[Stopper]

The Almond chord absolutely needs to happen soon. I don’t think EGIP can be truly delivered without it.

 

[Altnabreac]

Interesting that Winchburgh is proposed to be served by Edinburgh-Stirling semi-fasts rather than the slower Cumbernauld service. Wouldn’t provide a Glasgow link (directly or via a change at Linlithgow on to a shuttle) or a link for the many residents there that work or go to school in Linlithgow. Although possibly the new high school will be open there by then.

Yes the expectation was that it would be the slow service that would call at Winchburgh but I believe when they did the timetables it just worked better in the fast.

Because the slow was initially for Stirling there has never been an expectation of a Glasgow service. Will be interesting to see if lack of direct Linlithgow service is an issue. For those children already at the Academy the funded bus service will continue. Once the new school opens in 2022 there will be no need to go to Linlithgow for school.

I suspect the key link is from Winchburgh to Edinburgh Park which is still there. Vast majority of housing growth is going to be Edinburgh and West Edinburgh based commuters.

Medium term the Almond chord is going to need to be revisited. It really is the key to the next increase in Edinburgh Waverley western throat capacity.

 

[Stopper]

I think the disappointing thing for Winchburgh long term is the inability to change onto a E-G shuttle to Glasgow, something that Lenzie, Bishopbriggs and Edinburgh Park passengers are able to do.

It makes sense to have Winchburgh & Linlithgow on the same service given the strong links between the two (school, work), especially after the halving of the bus frequency there was potential to pick up passengers there.

However a Winchburgh station is definitely required and 2tph Edinburgh is a decent enough service to begin with, although I expect this may have to increase in time.

 

[och aye]

The Almond chord absolutely needs to happen soon. I don’t think EGIP can be truly delivered without it.

Hopefully it'll be included as part of CP6.

 

[Photohunter71]

The Almond chord works should provide a few decent engineers trains past my flat. Had noted an engineers on Saturday whilst at Edinburgh airport heading north Topped and tailed by Freightliner 66's. Besides that, The Almond chord should provide a much needed boost.

 

[Stopper]

How much extra capacity would the Almond chord realistically provide?

 

[kilonewton]

How much extra capacity would the Almond chord realistically provide?

Resilience as well. Taking 8tph out of Newbridge would help with a bugbear for some.

 

[Stopper]

Resilience as well. Taking 8tph out of Newbridge would help with a bugbear for some.

Hopefully it means the E-G shuttles can be increased to 6tph with Stirling services doubled to 4tph.

 

[Altnabreac]

How much extra capacity would the Almond chord realistically provide?

It would change a 4tph - 8tph flat junction at Newbridge into a 4tph - 2tph flat junction.

Perhaps as importantly it changes a 12tph - 3/4tph flat junction at Haymarket East junction into a 6tph - 3/4 tph flat junction.

It also reduces the number of conflicting moves across the western throat at Waverley by better balancing demand between north and south lines.

If combined with Greenhill it probably allows:

An extra 2tph Glasgow - Falkirk High - Edinburgh. Could either be run non stop for a faster service or could allow things like 4tph Linlithgow - Glasgow and/or direct Lenzie/Bishopbriggs - Edinburgh services.

An extra 2tph Glasgow - Larbert.

More Shotts line services. Could be either an extra semi fast or complete recast. Direct Hamilton and/or Motherwell to Edinburgh services could be part of that recast.

 

[gingertom]

It would change a 4tph - 8tph flat junction at Newbridge into a 4tph - 2tph flat junction.

Perhaps as importantly it changes a 12tph - 3/4tph flat junction at Haymarket East junction into a 6tph - 3/4 tph flat junction.

It also reduces the number of conflicting moves across the western throat at Waverley by better balancing demand between north and south lines.

If combined with Greenhill it probably allows:

An extra 2tph Glasgow - Falkirk High - Edinburgh. Could either be run non stop for a faster service or could allow things like 4tph Linlithgow - Glasgow and/or direct Lenzie/Bishopbriggs - Edinburgh services.

An extra 2tph Glasgow - Larbert.

More Shotts line services. Could be either an extra semi fast or complete recast. Direct Hamilton and/or Motherwell to Edinburgh services could be part of that recast.

yes, it would release capacity as described, but at the expense of capacity over the Forth bridge: Fife Circle and Edinburgh-Aberdeen-Dundee-Perth-Inverness services. Would make squeezing in Levenmouth and St Andrews services a tad's difficult.

 

[Stopper]

Interesting.

Pathing permitted I’d say there is a good case for 6tph on the E-G as follows;

2tph - Haymarket, Linlithgow, Polmont, Falkirk High
2tph - Haymarket, Falkirk High, Croy
(New) 2tph - Haymarket, Linlithgow, Falkirk High

You could fit Edinburgh Gateway and possibly Lenzie into one each of the bottom two services.

All this would satisfy necessary requirements such as Gateway-Glasgow, Linlithgow/Falkirk/Croy-Gateway and 6tph Linlithgow-Edinburgh. There’s also the bonus of 6tph shuttles for Falkirk High, 4tph Linlithgow-Glasgow and a Lenzie-Gateway/Edinburgh link.

If you sent those 6tph plus the 2tph Cumbernauld services via the Almond chord I suspect there’d be possible room for another 2tph via Newbridge alongside the 2tph Dunblane semi-fasts. Possibly doubling the Stirling-Edinburgh frequency to 4tph (using the bays) with another stopper allowing for Linlithgow/Polmont to be taken off the Cumbernaulds to speed them up, but that’s into deeper territory.

 

[Stopper]

yes, it would release capacity as described, but at the expense of capacity over the Forth bridge: Fife Circle and Edinburgh-Aberdeen-Dundee-Perth-Inverness services. Would make squeezing in Levenmouth and St Andrews services a tad's difficult.

Levenmouth services would be likely 2tph extensions of the current Cowdenbeath/Glenrothes terminators rather than extra services so they’d have 1tph via Kirkcaldy and 1tph via Dunfermline. This would double frequency at Lochgelly & Cardenden and retain the Glenrothes frequency (despite swapping 1tph from the Kirkcaldy side to the Dunfermline side).

St. Andrews services aren’t realistic in the near future for me.

It’d no doubt be a struggle with adding 6tph onto a current 7tph (sometimes more) so I think there’s still the possibility of sending 4tph up either way rather than 6tph Almond and 2tph Newbridge.

 

[FS-2-11]

Back to the Edinburgh-Cumbernauld-Glasgow service: I'm curious as to how these will be advertised on the boards at Waverley/Haymarket and Queen Street. Will there be an attempt to direct end-to-end passengers to the Falkirk High route, by the boards showing the trains as terminating at Springburn (westbound) and Edinburgh Park (eastbound)?

Rather like GWR, where stopping services from Paddington and Reading are shown as terminating at Twyford and Ealing Broadway respectively.

 

[snookertam]

Back to the Edinburgh-Cumbernauld-Glasgow service: I'm curious as to how these will be advertised on the boards at Waverley/Haymarket and Queen Street. Will there be an attempt to direct end-to-end passengers to the Falkirk High route, by the boards showing the trains as terminating at Springburn (westbound) and Edinburgh Park (eastbound)?

Rather like GWR, where stopping services from Paddington and Reading are shown as terminating at Twyford and Ealing Broadway respectively.

It would make sense, but it's not something (to my knowledge) that has been done in Scotland before. I think most likely they will be advertised as 'via Cumbernauld', with this featuring prominently on the CIS, maybe even alternating with Edinburgh or Glasgow Queen Street on the main destination line of the board.

EDIT: Actually it has been done in Scotland before. At Glasgow Central, services for the Cathcart Circle are advertised as 'Cathcart' even though they are actually Glasgow Central to Glasgow Central services. So they might do as you suggest, but I think it's more likely the other option.

 

[clc]

More Shotts line services. Could be either an extra semi fast or complete recast. Direct Hamilton and/or Motherwell to Edinburgh services could be of that recast.

I think an extra semi fast combined with new class 385s would encourage more end to end journeys via Shotts. Most of Glasgow’s blue chip employers and all the major new office developments under construction or in the pipeline are west of Central which is the wrong side for passengers arriving at Queen Street. If you had a regular 55 minute journey time between Haymarket and Central there wouldn’t be much point in going to Queen Street if you worked for these companies.

 

[InOban]

Last time I visited Central, the trains to Birmingham were all advertised as London, which is where they terminate. I've always wondered hiw many passengers to London get on the wrong train.

 

[route101]

Last time I visited Central, the trains to Birmingham were all advertised as London, which is where they terminate. I've always wondered hiw many passengers to London get on the wrong train.

Whenever ive been on the 8am fro Glasgow to London via Birmingham theres plenty going to London Euston . Maybe on cheap advances and/or just dont realise the train makes a west midlands detour

 

[route101]

I think an extra semi fast combined with new class 385s would encourage more end to end journeys via Shotts. Most of Glasgow’s blue chip employers and all the major new office developments under construction or in the pipeline are west of Central which is the wrong side for passengers arriving at Queen Street. If you had a regular 55 minute journey time between Haymarket and Central there wouldn’t be much point in going to Queen Street if you worked for these companies.

Is there a place at Hamilton for trains to turn back ? Didnt there used to be Edinburgh to Hamilto services years ago . I know there was a Shotts line service that terminates at Motherwell at peak

 

[snookertam]

I think an extra semi fast combined with new class 385s would encourage more end to end journeys via Shotts. Most of Glasgow’s blue chip employers and all the major new office developments under construction or in the pipeline are west of Central which is the wrong side for passengers arriving at Queen Street. If you had a regular 55 minute journey time between Haymarket and Central there wouldn’t be much point in going to Queen Street if you worked for these companies.

I doubt there would be capacity for that. Queen Street is within easy reach of the entire city centre anyway.

Speaking personally, regardless of where I'm coming from within Glasgow, trains from central don't even enter my thinking if I am en route to Edinburgh.

 

[MadMac]

Is there a place at Hamilton for trains to turn back ? Didnt there used to be Edinburgh to Hamilton services years ago . I know there was a Shotts line service that terminates at Motherwell at peak

Some services (generally early morning and late evening) used to originate and terminate at Hamilton West when there was a DMU depot there. I don’t believe there’s a way to turn back from Hamilton Central.

 

[route101]

Some services (generally early morning and late evening) used to originate and terminate at Hamilton West when there was a DMU depot there. I don’t believe there’s a way to turn back from Hamilton Central.

I see , thats what im thinking of . I seen a picture of the Edinburgh Destination board showing Hamilton West .

 

[SouthSub]

I think the disappointing thing for Winchburgh long term is the inability to change onto a E-G shuttle to Glasgow, something that Lenzie, Bishopbriggs and Edinburgh Park passengers are able to do.

It makes sense to have Winchburgh & Linlithgow on the same service given the strong links between the two (school, work), especially after the halving of the bus frequency there was potential to pick up passengers there.

However a Winchburgh station is definitely required and 2tph Edinburgh is a decent enough service to begin with, although I expect this may have to increase in time.

Living nearby, I have always felt that Winchburgh station would be handy for trips to Glasgow, and would make me more likely to make such trips. I'm sure I'm not alone in this thinking - lack of a Glasgow service (even connecting) would be a bit of a blow, especially considering how long we've waited for the station to be built.

 

[Stopper]

Living nearby, I have always felt that Winchburgh station would be handy for trips to Glasgow, and would make me more likely to make such trips. I'm sure I'm not alone in this thinking - lack of a Glasgow service (even connecting) would be a bit of a blow, especially considering how long we've waited for the station to be built.

I agree 100% but sadly it’s unlikely Winchburgh will be given a Glasgow service, unless it’s via Cumbernauld which wouldn’t really be worth it.

 

[clc]

ORR final determination - Summary of conclusions and route settlement document for Scotland:

http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf...scotland-conclusions-and-route-settlement.pdf

Noticed that there’s £103m of funds available for Carstairs in CP6.

 

[najaB]

Minor project, but is there any chance of a new freight link to Dundee's port given the major investment in both decommissioning and renewables? E.g.:

Major decom project promises 500 jobs and millions in investment for Dundee

Hundreds of jobs and tens of millions in new investment are being promised to Dundee by a decommissioning company behind plans to build Moonraker, the UK’s largest offshore heavy lift vessel.

Offshore Decommissioning Services will set up its new UK headquarters in the city in early 2019 after chief executive Lee Johnson was left hugely impressed by the growing decom hub based around the city’s Port.

He said ODS had scouted a number of locations – believed to include oil capital Aberdeen – before identifying Dundee as the perfect base for its ambitious project following talks with local industry group Dundeecom.

Up to 500 highly skilled jobs will be created over the three years leading up to Moonraker’s maiden campaign, which is expected in 2021.

 

[Southsider]

Contracts starting to be awarded for CP6? Mention of £4bn investment. (Sorry, I don't know how to do the quote bit).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-46457307

 

[mcmad]

Its the start of the rolling 5 year framework contracts for the repair and like for like replacement, in this case for structures, for CP6. Expect more announcements covering further frameworks for other types of works over the next few months. Its not for enhancements work, just run of the mill renewals.