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County name and abbreviation discussion (e.g. Hampshire -> Hants)

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Bletchleyite

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ForTheLoveOf

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I'm quite surprised that anyone who isn't a tourist from outside of the UK hasn't (a) heard of Hampshire, and (b) isn't aware that Hants is its normal abbreviation, and (c) wouldn't question something they thought wasn't right at the point of purchase.
To be quite honest, until I started learning about railway ticketing abbreviations I would have said that Hamps would be the abbreviation for Hampshire. Hants doesn't make a great deal of sense unless you know what it means.
 

Bletchleyite

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To be quite honest, until I started learning about railway ticketing abbreviations I would have said that Hamps would be the abbreviation for Hampshire. Hants doesn't make a great deal of sense unless you know what it means.

It's not a railway abbreviation, it's in common use. Hampshire County Council's website is called Hantsweb, for example. There are a number of Counties that abbreviate in a way that doesn't directly reflect their full name, though I must admit the other ones escape me at the moment!

Oh, thought of one - Warwickshire -> Warks. And Oxfordshire -> Oxon.

Edit edit...apparently:
"Hampshire" is often abbreviated in written form to "Hants" and which sometimes gives rise to puzzlement. The abbreviated form is derived from the Old English Hantum plus Scir (meaning a district governed from the settlement now known as Southampton) and the Anglo-Saxons called it Hamtunschire.

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/abouthnt.htm
 

Starmill

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It's not a railway abbreviation, it's in common use. Hampshire County Council's website is called Hantsweb, for example. There are a number of Counties that abbreviate in a way that doesn't directly reflect their full name, though I must admit the other ones escape me at the moment!

Oh, thought of one - Warwickshire -> Warks. And Oxfordshire -> Oxon.

Edit edit...apparently:


http://www3.hants.gov.uk/abouthnt.htm

People sometimes refer to Shropshire as 'Salop'. Northamptonshire goes down to 'Northants'. There are lots of similar examples.
 

tiptoptaff

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I'm quite surprised that anyone who isn't a tourist from outside of the UK hasn't (a) heard of Hampshire, and (b) isn't aware that Hants is its normal abbreviation, and (c) wouldn't question something they thought wasn't right at the point of purchase.
I thought the same thing. I thought it was common knowledge that the common abbreviation of Hampshire is Hants.
Certainly the story is a bit suspect as presented. Not to say it isn't 100% true, but it is suspect.
 

Bletchleyite

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I must admit that having looked at a map they would do well to rename the Marston Vale station to Marston Moretaine, which is both (a) nearer to it than Millbrook (to the point that it's vaguely reasonable walking distance, which Millbrook isn't being about 2km away), and (b) quite a lot bigger. That would remove one of these confusing double-ups, at least.
 

Bletchleyite

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I thought the same thing. I thought it was common knowledge that the common abbreviation of Hampshire is Hants.
Certainly the story is a bit suspect as presented. Not to say it isn't 100% true, but it is suspect.

Further to that I know Anytime Day Returns are pricey, but 60-odd quid for a 25 mile journey is well beyond even the most ludicrous fares the railway likes to put out there. I'd have questioned it, and had it been confirmed as correct with a group of 6 would have instead probably taken a minibus-taxi, which would probably have cost around the train fare for one or maybe two people!

OTOH, to Millbrook (Hants) that seems rather good value, particularly given that it is valid via London! :)
 

rpjs

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It's not a railway abbreviation, it's in common use. Hampshire County Council's website is called Hantsweb, for example. There are a number of Counties that abbreviate in a way that doesn't directly reflect their full name, though I must admit the other ones escape me at the moment!

Oh, thought of one - Warwickshire -> Warks. And Oxfordshire -> Oxon.

Edit edit...apparently:


http://www3.hants.gov.uk/abouthnt.htm

I didn't write that copy, although I did mark it up into HTML back in c.1997. I'm fairly sure I wrote the first paragraph on that page though. Amazing it's still there 20+ years later!

I think the traditional county abbreviations were much better known when it was normal practice to include counties in postal addresses. The Royal Mail dropped that back in the early 90s though, so I don't think it's unreasonable OP didn't understand it.
 
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LAX54

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I didn't write that copy, although I did mark it up into HTML back in c.1997. I'm fairly sure I wrote the first paragraph on that page though. Amazing it's still there 20+ years later!

I think the traditional county abbreviations were much better known when it was normal practice to include counties in postal addresses. The Royal Mail dropped that back in the early 90s though, so I don't think it's unreasonable OP didn't understand it.

When I am writing an address on an envelope, I always put the County in the address :)
 

londonbridge

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I suspect the level of geographic knowledge on here is rather higher than the general average across the population as a whole. :D

Put it this way: I worked as a Christmas temp at Royal Mail and was on manual sorting. International mail was divided into three categories: Europe, USA/Canada/South Africa/Australasia/Japan, and rest of the world. In one instance the girl on the next sorting frame asked me if Malaysia was in Europe. Having helped her with that one, a couple of minutesd later ,she called over again and said "what about Colombia, is that Europe"?
 

Starmill

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When I am writing an address on an envelope, I always put the County in the address :)
You can write whatever you like on there though, and it will almost certainly still be delivered as long as you've included some kind of identifying information.
I sent someone a letter not long ago that literally just had their house number and a postcode. That was it. It made it to them without problems.

You can probably just write 'The Prime Minister' on there, and it will still be delivered.

A letter once made its way to me that had my name on it and a house number but no street name.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Regarding some forms of county names, the former shipbuilding town of Dumbarton is situated in the county of Dunbartonshire.

Dumbarton is also famous for being the home town of David Byrne, who was the frontman of the band Talking Heads.
 

Basher

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When did Somersetshire become Somerset? Old maps show Somersetshire
 

krus_aragon

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I'm quite surprised that anyone who isn't a tourist from outside of the UK hasn't (a) heard of Hampshire, and (b) isn't aware that Hants is its normal abbreviation, and (c) wouldn't question something they thought wasn't right at the point of purchase.
The first two might be more accurate if narrowed down to people within England. I'm enough of a geography/language buff to be able to identify most English counties and their abbreviations (but not neccesarily point them all out on a map) but I can think of plenty of old school friends over here that might not pass both of those tests.
 

robbeech

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You can write whatever you like on there though, and it will almost certainly still be delivered as long as you've included some kind of identifying information.
I sent someone a letter not long ago that literally just had their house number and a postcode. That was it. It made it to them without problems.

You can probably just write 'The Prime Minister' on there, and it will still be delivered.

A letter once made its way to me that had my name on it and a house number but no street name.

Mr Beech
Whitwell

Mr Beech
S80

Rob Beech
Worksop


Have all got to me within the last 15 or so years.
 

krus_aragon

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All the historic counties of Wales were "-shire" (Monmouthshire, Brecknockshire), with the exception of Anglesey. I wonder if that's because most of them were relatively modern inventions by the English (1282/1535), as opposed to names from antiquity.

Curiously, while never called a "shire" in English, the county of Anglesey was and is commonly known as "Sir Fôn" (Shire of Anglesey) in Welsh.
 

ComUtoR

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I've lived in Kent for almost 30yrs and I never knew where Thanet was until this year.
 

krus_aragon

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Talking of which, why Brecknockshire and not Breconshire?
The name ultimately derives from the Welsh Kingdom of Brycheiniog. The town of Brecon was known as Brecknock in English around the time of the shire's creation, but that name's now considered archaic (in the same manner as, say, Sarum).*

The town's name in Welsh, Aberhonddu, refers to the local river as opposed to the old kingdom. I presume that the English name was coined at the creation of the county it would administer.

*The name Brecknock is used in Shakespeare's Richard III
 

Calthrop

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Devonshire too (as in Duke of....).

A bit off-topic; but I gather that the title "Duke of Devonshire" is the result of a clerical error in or around the 18th century. The title was meant to be created as "Duke of Derbyshire" (appropriate to the chap's seat of Chatsworth, in that county), but a mess-up with writing-out of appropriate document caused the word "Devonshire" to be written instead. "For some reason or none", the error was allowed to stand.
 

Mojo

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You can write whatever you like on there though, and it will almost certainly still be delivered as long as you've included some kind of identifying information.
On the other hand I regularly (as in, several times a year over the past few years, so it’s not just a one off mistake) get post for a completely different address in another part of London, where the sender has correctly written the intended recipient’s address including postcode. The only similarity in the detail on the post is the door number and first half of the street name.
To be quite honest, until I started learning about railway ticketing abbreviations I would have said that Hamps would be the abbreviation for Hampshire. Hants doesn't make a great deal of sense unless you know what it means.
It isn’t a railway abbreviation. It’s the standard abbreviation for the county.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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On the other hand I regularly (as in, several times a year over the past few years, so it’s not just a one off mistake) get post for a completely different address in another part of London, where the sender has correctly written the intended recipient’s address including postcode. The only similarity in the detail on the post is the door number and first half of the street name.

It isn’t a railway abbreviation. It’s the standard abbreviation for the county.
Well, it's not a railway abbreviation but the first time I came across Hants specificallu was on old-style ticket abbreviations (as shown by BR Fares). I only rarely use counties in letter addresses - unless the village or other place I'm writing to is so small that there's a risk of the letter not finding its way to its destination if I don't include it. Mind you, I like printing the address onto the front of the envelope (if I'm not using an envelope with a transparent address window) anyway, so hopefully that reduces the risk of misreading!
 

Bletchleyite

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I've lived in Kent for almost 30yrs and I never knew where Thanet was until this
year.

One presumes that finding out has not enhanced your life :D

Re postcodes, house number and postcode is indeed plenty enough, and that's all I ever put on as a return address if I'm putting one, as postcodes don't ever contain more than one street. The street name is a kind of "checksum", effectively.
 

Mag_seven

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Well, it's not a railway abbreviation but the first time I came across Hants specificallu was on old-style ticket abbreviations (as shown by BR Fares).

The first time I came across "Hants" was also in a railway context - the direct line from Reading to Taunton referred to as "The Berks and Hants".
 

cactustwirly

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When I am writing an address on an envelope, I always put the County in the address :)

But if you're sending it to somewhere like Leicester or Nottingham, it's kinda obvious what county it's in!
 
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