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Lineside Photographic Permits

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Flying Phil

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The withdrawal of lineside permits was all the talk at the recent GCR gala. Apparently a permit holder was photographed walking down the middle of the track. So perhaps there we have it - one person has spoilt it for everyone else.

Whilst it may well have been a factor the letter does say the decision was the result of the ROGS Audit.
I suspect also it has been a victim of it's own success - there are now many "linesiders" and many trains in both directions on the GCR - they are also running industry test trains on a frequent, but irregular, basis.
 
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tomatwark

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I would also think that the higher line speed over part of the line will have something to do with it as well.
 

YorkshireBear

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I think it should be a PTS qualification as a minimum for a lineside pass. Which also gives you a way of suspending any lineside photographers viewed to act unsafely and not allow one person to ruin it for all others.
 

Flying Phil

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There is a short article on this in the new (Dec) Railway Magazine. The SDR and GWSR are stopping the issue completely, the GCR will be issuing a strictly limited number of permits to "preferred photographers......over the years and who have conducted themselves safely".
 

43096

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I think it should be a PTS qualification as a minimum for a lineside pass. Which also gives you a way of suspending any lineside photographers viewed to act unsafely and not allow one person to ruin it for all others.
I would tend to agree on PTS, although I don't see why the current scheme doesn't allow suspending of the photographer's pass?
 

YorkshireBear

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I would tend to agree on PTS, although I don't see why the current scheme doesn't allow suspending of the photographer's pass?
It does allow for it, this just makes it easier, which I didn't make clear in my post sorry!
 

xotGD

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Not in my experience. All passholders I know on the Worth Valley behave responsibly and that was also the case on overseas tours when there could be as many as 50 of us lining up for photographs.
50 people taking identical photographs? Why not just have one member of staff take some phots and email them to everyone else?
 

reddragon

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One issue which has understandably caused considerable disappointment, is our decision to stop the issue of lineside photographic passes. The original decision was taken following a ROGS safety audit we arranged to have early in the year. It was strongly recommended then that we withdraw the passes for safety reasons. After receiving a number of heartfelt pleas from various people, we considered the matter again in detail during the year and tried to work out a system which would allow us to maintain all necessary safety procedures whilst allowing unlimited access to photographers. In subsequent discussion with the ORR, we were put on the spot and asked why we were considering reintroducing the passes, when they were such an obvious potential safety risk. It was explained to us in no uncertain terms that the ORR would not look at all kindly on any attempt by us to continue to issue such passes. So, regretfully we have had no option but to maintain our original decision. I hope you understand why we have been obliged to make it. I am very sorry if you feel aggrieved by this necessary decision. There are still a huge number of vantage points to photograph our trains from, without having to go lineside.

A further update
 

Shenandoah

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I am not sure where the 'update' in post 38 came from. Probably F/book or similar. From reading another Forum it appears to be a paste of a letter originating on the G&WSR and not the GCR.
 

eldomtom2

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Presumably it may also affect the private hire charters on heritage lines, where photographers hire - and travel upon - a train, stopping it at a few locations to photograph "runpasts" ?
From looking into it a bit more, the ORR's objection is specifically to photographers on the line on their own without a lookout, so presumably photo charters (if adequate supervision is provided) will be okay.
 

Flipper

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The withdrawal of lineside permits was all the talk at the recent GCR gala. Apparently a permit holder was photographed walking down the middle of the track. So perhaps there we have it - one person has spoilt it for everyone else.

Oh, it was a lot, lot more, than one person. Those of us who routinely work on the track have been attempting to advise and caution permit holders for ten years or more, and have increasingly been met with indifference, mockery and occasionally outright hostility. Traincrew admonishing permit holders have been threatened with violence. Standards have been continually slipping amongst the schemes members, as the bad apples have spoilt the barrel.

I suspect the incident you have heard about was the permit holder who was photographed recently stood on the sleeper ends of the down line, back to traffic, foot on the cess rail, with his headphones in and casually chatting to a fellow photographer. Not the only offender, by any means, but definitely one of the best recorded . . .
 

43096

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Oh, it was a lot, lot more, than one person. Those of us who routinely work on the track have been attempting to advise and caution permit holders for ten years or more, and have increasingly been met with indifference, mockery and occasionally outright hostility. Traincrew admonishing permit holders have been threatened with violence. Standards have been continually slipping amongst the schemes members, as the bad apples have spoilt the barrel.

I suspect the incident you have heard about was the permit holder who was photographed recently stood on the sleeper ends of the down line, back to traffic, foot on the cess rail, with his headphones in and casually chatting to a fellow photographer. Not the only offender, by any means, but definitely one of the best recorded . . .
Ah. The truth is out.

Thanks for posting this. No surprise. No surprise at all.
 

John Edkins

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There is a short article on this in the new (Dec) Railway Magazine. The SDR and GWSR are stopping the issue completely, the GCR will be issuing a strictly limited number of permits to "preferred photographers......over the years and who have conducted themselves safely".
I have heard the reference to "50 preferred photographers" elsewhere and would take issue with the term and how it would be implemented. Firstly, whilst I accept the majority of GCR linesiders are photographers there are also persons like myself who are videographers. I am sure that the estimated 300 non-preferred linesiders would like to see some transparency on the selection process, specifically how the GCR are going to prove that the preferred photographers have not been in breach with lineside regulation in the past. For me it's all or nothing, but the "all" option should include a stringent PTS examination conducted by a third party. The GCR are guilty of issuing lineside passes without a formal test and all I received when joining was a video which I could choose to view or not.
 

eldomtom2

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I strongly suspect the "preferred photographers" business is a way to end permits while not explicitly saying so. I doubt there will be any more after the initial 50.
 

cclass

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A previous thread on this subject is closed.

I've just read that GCR is discontinuing the issue of lineside permits from the start of 2019. Anyone heard this and is there is a particular reason? I believe that Mid Hants and Glos-Warks have also stopped issuing permits. I have a Worth Valley permit and am not aware of any plans to stop them but what other lines issue them now? I remember getting a one-day pass on the Bluebell but that was years ago and I doubt if any railways issue these now.
https://www.national-preservation.c...-that-gap-great-central-railway-news.1272312/
I tried early this year it was no then
 
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