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Train Describer Messages

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IanXC

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When noting a train that is going to be late departing it seems to often be practice to place the delay code as the note, eg -TG- for awaiting driver.
 
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exsignalman

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I've seen **** used when a run round is taking place.
The **** is what is technically known as an N.D.A (No Description Alarm) ...
A no description alarm is where a movement is taking place but no description has been entered into that actual berth etc, so the moment that particular track circuit berth gets shunted (& the track circuit becomes occupied) the signaller will receive an audible warning & a visual **** as an N.D.A. illuminated within that actual berth/section to alert them that a TC berth is showing occupied with no description interposed & to take action/update if required.


Sometimes as a signaller you would update it simply by going to the TD (Train Describer) keyboard & calling up that particular berth then typing.....say....0J00 (for example if it was a light engine going to Newton Heath) then pressing 'Interpose' to enter it onto the system....but in some cases like an unsignalled move or Single Line Working/bang road working it just wouldn't be worth it, as working in the wrong direction the berths wouldn't (in some cases) update themselves & travel in the wrong direction, so you would be forever manually updating the TD berths section by section as the train moved along, so for something like an unsignalled wrong direction move/SLW/loco runround etc you'd often just leave them all as NDAs then clear them all out manually after the movement has taken place.

Back in the 1990s when only we signallers could see them we sometimes (depending on who you were working with) sent our own unofficial messages in the berths

At Christmas it was usual to see MERY XMAS LINE SHUT
But if joking around sometimes we'd enter something like NEED BREW
Or if you couldn't get through to a neighbouring box/fringe box on the phone or something you'd transmit something to them like ANSR FONE

One one memorable occasion back in the 90s we,d had trouble with an ECS 142 that had failed in section between Deansgate Junction & Northenden Junction & after getting it assisted with another ECS (Going to the same destination, Piccadilly) I (after agreeing it with Northenden) changed the train description from something like 5H31 to something more fitting.....it was........5H1T

(Only Northenden Junction & myself could see this description), but for a few minutes & for around 3 miles of travel we had a 4 car ECS for Piccadilly running as "5H1T".

Other times when train failures/incidents have taken place I have seen the TD berths in other PSB boxes updated to........
NAKA (Knackared Failed Train)
JUNK (Same as above)
CRAP (Same as above)
*POS (Piece Of 5h1t....same as above)
*OOO (Out Of Order)
FITR (Fitters Attention)
NOGO (Not To Go/Going Nowhere/Do Not Use)
WATR (Lineside Flooding)
FIRE (Fire Brigade Attendance)
BASH (Bridge Bashed)
 
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exsignalman

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I'm intrigued by this one:



Where does NAKA come from?
NAKA is basically a play on the term a "Knacker" & it dates back to horses & horsepower.
To "Knacker" a horse means to castrate it & to castrate a horse it would obviously have to have it's testicles removed (AKA it's Knackers) & in doing so you would De knacker it (later shortened to "Knackering" it).
In "Knackering" a horse it was said that although it calmed it down, if done badly it would ruin it & remove it's strength thus making it no good & often unable to any real work thus making it useless.

Hence Knackared
 
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4-SUB 4732

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I think it's if a train is occupying a block without a running headcode, the system automatically puts in ****.

I've also seen when the WCML shut down due to high winds, headcodes were removed and replaced with unit numbers, -390 016-, for example.

Correct - if the track circuit occupies with no headcode input it will automatically enter ****.
 

exsignalman

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Because local jargon is well, only known locally. So if a Signaller put in a locally known message that someone else didn't know or understand then it can lead to an incident.

I've heard a few phrases on here that I have no idea about. I've been driving 10+yrs and some posts from other Drivers on here still confuse me. Safety critical communication does not and should not include Jargon.

Personally the use of using a simple 4 character TD berth to store a short personal & local reminder be it jargon or not was (& no doubt still is) only ever used as an ADDITIONAL personal aid often to back up an OFFICIAL REMINDER DEVICE.

The signaller could in effect just use a reminder device & magnetic sign & then do nothing to the berth......leave the description blank...or filled with an NDA **** (Berth Alarm) or with just a reporting number there.

But what is safer??

A reminder device used with a blank berth or NDA ****

Or a reminder device used in conjunction with a short unofficial message interposed into a berth to remind YOU what you have done & why, plus it now shows to others what you are doing also.

As a signaller/signalman you would also inform all concerned of what you were doing, what was going on, agree the course of action in accordance with the rules & regs & then come to a clear & proper understanding with all concerned.

Jargon or not, if it reminds YOU (the signaller working the job) & prevents you from making a mistake......then it can't be a bad thing.
 
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GW43125

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Correct - if the track circuit occupies with no headcode input it will automatically enter ****.
Or *X** as some older Southern region schemes used.

Back in the 1990s when only we signallers could see them we sometimes (depending on who you were working with) sent our own unofficial messages in the berths
There's an old story of a signaller who couldn't get through to the next 'box so typed "BOWL" and "LOKS" in two adjacent berths. This prompted a phone call which was answered with "you're awake then!"
 

Sunset route

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You can also interpose **** via the quick keys, very handy when you want to stop a code from rippling through multi berths in a platform when reversing in a platform. Lewes use it all the time with the Brighton to Lewes terminators in their platform five.

I used to use it on Selhusrt Departure road* on the rear berth if there was a train going into the Depot on the arrival road* at the same as it would take both codes and I’d rather I’ll lose a **** than the outward train ID.

* each exit signal had three TD berths associated with them ie signal T68 had 0068, R068 & RR68
 

WL113

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Often see symbolic messages in TD berths to mark events such as Signal Box closures etc.

today Old Oak Common depot closed with due honours.OOC.jpg OOC.jpg OOC.jpg OOC.jpg
 

AMD

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And a recent one when a 142 decided to die on us.
 

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crosscity

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This is a bit sad.All closed.jpg
This is a screenshot from 'Railcam' taken on Sat 20 Oct 2018 at 00:42. It shows messages from Milner Royd and Halifax signalboxes to York ROC after the very last trains had passed and the L&Y manual boxes closed for good.
 

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AlexNL

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Spotted this one (Local Control?) around West Ealing:

upload_2018-12-10_3-21-5.png
 

TheEdge

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That's not busy, that's a simple station block under a T3 possession.

This is why people need to understand what these are.
 

_toommm_

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That's not busy, that's a simple station block under a T3 possession.

This is why people need to understand what these are.

I perfectly understand what it is - I was referring to the fact that there was a lot of late running if I remember correctly so the station was quite busy.

I know what a T3 is...
 

E_Reeves

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Interesting to see all northbound fasts going through p2 at Nuneaton and stoppers into p3, but looking further up there is KRAC on the fast line, so makes sense to have the platforms swapped so everything can filter onto the slow line.
 

LAX54

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Because local jargon is well, only known locally. So if a Signaller put in a locally known message that someone else didn't know or understand then it can lead to an incident.

I've heard a few phrases on here that I have no idea about. I've been driving 10+yrs and some posts from other Drivers on here still confuse me. Safety critical communication does not and should not include Jargon.

And it does not, the 4 letter entries are just an addition as an additional reminder that something is there, of wrong etc, and of course the general public have no need to know what any of them mean really ! you say if a signaller put a locally known 'mesaage' in....well that is exactly what it is..local :) no one else needs to know...or probably even cares ! LOL
 

spark001uk

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Your forgetting that we have to go through a proper handover at change of shift or for meal breaks, where what has happened, is happening and is going to happen is all explained, with the limits of incidents fully explained, any note left in TD berths would also come under this if not understood. Iffour signallers work in a signalboxe and use codes in certain berths then I can’t see where the confusion would be as it what they themselves have come up with, the same goes at multi panel/workstation locations would still be local to them. The real protection stoll comes from using the signalling reminders as per the rule book, the rest is just a visual aid.
Just wondering, do siggies have a short time limit before breaks, much like air traffic controllers do? (90 mins iirc)
 

E_Reeves

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Merry Christmas everyone :D I wonder if there's any signaller messages left behind? A bunch of T3s out of London...
 

trainmania100

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Newhaven marine shows SOOU presumably sidings out of use
Also seen NOGO for when there's a problem
There's also a 0XED at Sanders year, not quite sure what means
 

tsr

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Newhaven marine shows SOOU presumably sidings out of use
Also seen NOGO for when there's a problem
There's also a 0XED at Sanders year, not quite sure what means

It’s OXED CLSD in the Down and Up berths respectively at Sanderstead... a reminder not to send any traffic further than the crossovers there, as Oxted Signalbox controls south of Upper Warlingham and has been able to shut for Christmas this year (pretty much the only time it ever does).

Sadly, last night’s Oxted signaller has not left the traditional Christmas message on their describers!

Likewise Reigate is REIG CLSD, but also no message. Again, Reigate rarely closes.
 

Pete_uk

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It might be, like ADSB messages from aircraft, that the signalers know people like us are watching so try to make us giggle?
 
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