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TPE Class 397 ('Nova 2') construction and updates

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driver9000

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These EMUs do look smart from the exterior and should be much better than the Class 350/4s used presently. Not sure if capacity will be enough though.
So after static tests, it'll be more training for freight drivers to test the Class 397, Stoke to Kidsgrove I believe initially like with the Class 350, then more training for TPE drivers, which I presume is a different link to the Tans-Pennine drivers so should not interfere with each other's training.
Hopefully no brake problems on these units.

The 397 software is future proof to allow them to be extended as 'plug and play' should it be authorised later. There is no crossover of work for train crew between mk5A and 397 fleets so the training of one type will not interfere with the training on another.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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The 397 software is future proof to allow them to be extended as 'plug and play' should it be authorised later. There is no crossover of work for train crew between mk5A and 397 fleets so the training of one type will not interfere with the training on another.

It's worth noting that the 397 procurement is the only TPE one which has enhancement options built into the franchise agreement (ie more/longer trains).
It remains to be seen if DfT will ask TPE to acquire more units.
Given that the franchise agreement was anticipating TP electrification during its term, it may not be invoked.
 

SP Man

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These EMUs do look smart from the exterior and should be much better than the Class 350/4s used presently. Not sure if capacity will be enough though.
So after static tests, it'll be more training for freight drivers to test the Class 397, Stoke to Kidsgrove I believe initially like with the Class 350, then more training for TPE drivers, which I presume is a different link to the Tans-Pennine drivers so should not interfere with each other's training.
Hopefully no brake problems on these units.
Freightliner Drivers already trained up on the 397s. Initial SPZ was planned to be between Stoke and Macclesfield but that may move location.
 

whhistle

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Why Class 397?
Why not 361 (IE, carrying on from 360?) Or Class 351 (IE, carrying on from 350?)

I always thought the higher 39x were for more "express" EMUs rather than local units?
 

TBSchenker

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397s are express units. So far away from the Class 350 ‘suburban’ units they are replacing. (The 350s were a tag-on to a London Midland order to get new EMUs quickly).
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I always thought the higher 39x were for more "express" EMUs rather than local units?

They are 125mph units, so as fast as anything you can see in GB off HS1.
They lack tilt, though, so will only do 110mph on the WCML.
Which begs the question as to where they will be tested at 125mph (+10% overspeed).
There is one 10-mile stretch of the WCML passed for 125mph MU non-tilt - Bushbury to Rickerscote (Wolverhampton-Stafford).
 

SP Man

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They are 125mph units, so as fast as anything you can see in GB off HS1.
They lack tilt, though, so will only do 110mph on the WCML.
Which begs the question as to where they will be tested at 125mph (+10% overspeed).
There is one 10-mile stretch of the WCML passed for 125mph MU non-tilt - Bushbury to Rickerscote (Wolverhampton-Stafford).
Do not need to do the 10% over speed in UK. Permission is being sought (and expected to be granted) to use certain EPS speeds between Preston and Oxenholme.
 

Railperf

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They are 125mph units, so as fast as anything you can see in GB off HS1.
They lack tilt, though, so will only do 110mph on the WCML.
Which begs the question as to where they will be tested at 125mph (+10% overspeed).
There is one 10-mile stretch of the WCML passed for 125mph MU non-tilt - Bushbury to Rickerscote (Wolverhampton-Stafford).
Given the length of WCML likely to be used - it seems crazy that tilting EMU's were not ordered to protect capacity and slot in between Pendolino's without using up additional paths.
 

EE Andy b1

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They could've ordered the Avelia Pendolino's that have recently come about.

Would be very surprised if any tilting rolling stock is ever ordered again!
HS2 classic compatible trains will be non-tilt.

If they get Hybrid trains to replace Class 221, they would be non-tilt.
 

Sleeperwaking

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Would be very surprised if any tilting rolling stock is ever ordered again!

I agree - I think tilting trains have a lot of associated maintenance and reliability baggage (plus would be more expensive to design and manufacture), so there would need to be a clear benefit from getting the extra 15 mph. If you can have heavy freight using the WCML during the day, I can't see that limiting the 397 to 110 mph would pose too many problems in terms of paths.
 

Bletchleyite

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Would be very surprised if any tilting rolling stock is ever ordered again!
HS2 classic compatible trains will be non-tilt.

If they get Hybrid trains to replace Class 221, they would be non-tilt.

I'm inclined to agree. The Pendolino was right for its time, but once HS2 is built the WCML will be about slower, clockface-timetabled inter-regional trains and not about fast IC. I could even see a reduction to 110mph, to be honest.
 

Sleeperwaking

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Is there a reason why 397s need to be tested in a SPZ, whereas the CAF 331s seemed to do their first mainline testing straight off Edge Hill without a SPZ?

I suspect the Class 331s were tested in an SPZ first - if it was only one or two paths, it may not have been clocked by anyone on here. It's pretty standard for new EMUs to verify what the EM footprint looks like on NR infrastructure, in an attempt to ensure it won't wreak havoc with the signalling when let loose in traffic (although as can be seen from the IEP / ECML problems, SPZ testing won't necessarily pick up all potential issues).
 

Sleeperwaking

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I'm inclined to agree. The Pendolino was right for its time, but once HS2 is built the WCML will be about slower, clockface-timetabled inter-regional trains and not about fast IC. I could even see a reduction to 110mph, to be honest.

Hahaha "inclined" - I see what you did there! :lol::lol::lol:
 

Bertie the bus

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I suspect the Class 331s were tested in an SPZ first - if it was only one or two paths, it may not have been clocked by anyone on here. It's pretty standard for new EMUs to verify what the EM footprint looks like on NR infrastructure, in an attempt to ensure it won't wreak havoc with the signalling when let loose in traffic (although as can be seen from the IEP / ECML problems, SPZ testing won't necessarily pick up all potential issues).
A 331 was dragged to St Helens Central in the dead of night a couple of times before mainline testing began.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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These trains have been tested on the Velim test circuit - I don't know what the UK involvement was in this.
Approvals are also supposed to be EU-wide. Thus NR should not be starting with a blank sheet of paper with the 397.
If they are, it renders the EU TSI compliance worthless.
I'm not sure what traction package the 397s use.
The 331s (which must have a degree of approval to run in normal traffic) have TSA electrics (Traktionssyteme Austria).
If 397s have the same package, it should make approval easier.
 

mallard

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Why Class 397?
Why not 361 (IE, carrying on from 360?) Or Class 351 (IE, carrying on from 350?)

I always thought the higher 39x were for more "express" EMUs rather than local units?

Don't expect logic in the TOPS numbering system...

Originally Cl370+ were "express" units (i.e. Cl370 APT, Cl373 Eurostar...) then we somehow ended up with Electrostars in the 375-9 range (presumably based on the numbering of the unbuilt networkers allocated 371?) and Desiros on 380 (why Desiros were allocated 3/4x0 instead of a more logical scheme such as 3/450-4 I don't know, presumably Siemens paid well for "marketing-friendly" numbering...). At this point, it would make much more sense for any new express EMU to be in the 8xx range.
 

themiller

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Don't expect logic in the TOPS numbering system...

Originally Cl370+ were "express" units (i.e. Cl370 APT, Cl373 Eurostar...) then we somehow ended up with Electrostars in the 375-9 range (presumably based on the numbering of the unbuilt networkers allocated 371?) and Desiros on 380 (why Desiros were allocated 3/4x0 instead of a more logical scheme such as 3/450-4 I don't know, presumably Siemens paid well for "marketing-friendly" numbering...). At this point, it would make much more sense for any new express EMU to be in the 8xx range.
Just to complicate matters, does anyone know what the European Vehicle Numbers (EVN) are for these trains?
 

43096

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Just to complicate matters, does anyone know what the European Vehicle Numbers (EVN) are for these trains?
AFAIAA it's only the car number that have EVNs allocated; the set numbers don't. Standard (i.e. not high-speed) vehicles will be 94 70 00nnnnn-x where nnnnn is the current car number and x is the check digit calculated in the usual way.

Eurostar class 373 (refurbished) and 374 carry their EVN car numbers.
 

AndrewE

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A video of the 397 on test including at its top speed and stop/start.
Very nice, thanks for the video - it must have been cold taking it! I'm glad to see a cover over the front gubbins at last, it looks much better now.
It's just a pity that TPE have got so few routes it can use them on.
 

driver9000

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Nice video, pity it looks like its been vandalised when it passes at 1:34.
 

Bletchleyite

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Very nice, thanks for the video - it must have been cold taking it! I'm glad to see a cover over the front gubbins at last, it looks much better now.
It's just a pity that TPE have got so few routes it can use them on.

It's a pity the Mk5s weren't based on these rather than the CS coaches, they are a metre and a bit longer per vehicle and have much bigger windows.
 

Antman

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Nice video, pity it looks like its been vandalised when it passes at 1:34.
Yep. at 3:00 dead it's clear the entire rear car has been vandalised (and then it looks like some of the graffiti sprayed over with a beige spray as well).
 
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