TFL on NYE - free and plenty travel options. Up here? Nothing! *Rant*

[radamfi]

So complain to your local PTE or whoever it is and insist you want to travel - no need to moan about some sort of north south divide considering this costs TfL a lot of money and people pay a lot of money throughout the year towards that cost.

But most of what little TfGM get is from central government and they can only get so much from local taxpayers. So the "beef" is really with central government.

 

[rebmcr]

I believe, given the insider perspective in earlier posts, it is very clear that the NYE free travel would continue even if TfL was 100% funded from fares/advertising/retail. That makes it very difficult to justify arguments about how the taxpayer pot is allocated.

Also, while it's true that London council tax contributes little, the Greater London Allowance — which is an additional payment — makes up a higher proportion. There is even more regional contribution in the form of Congestion Charging, and the new pollution charging. And so, we come back to my initial statement that cities get what they pay for.

 

[Joe Paxton]

...
Also, while it's true that London council tax contributes little, the Greater London Allowance — which is an additional payment — makes up a higher proportion. ...

It's commonly referred to as the Greater London Authority (or GLA) precept - (e.g. on the RBG and LBH websites).

 

[Clip]

But most of what little TfGM get is from central government and they can only get so much from local taxpayers. So the "beef" is really with central government.

Hmm seems you dont know much about Manchesters funding either which shows that most of its funding comes from its council tax levy as set out in this document so again there is no 'beef' with central government and even if they did get most of its funding from central government then it is still up to them how they spend it and if they didnt want to spend it on free travel then its their decision.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93...f6e24458ed61cb3/Council-Tax-Document-1718.pdf

Funding GMCA/TfGM receives the following revenue funding to provide for its expenditure.

The table below shows the figures for the last financial year (2016/17) and the forthcoming one (2017/18): 2016/17 (£ million) 2017/18 (£ million) Total Levy 189.3 103.8* Special rail grant 1.8 1.9 Funding from reserves 33.7 134.6 Other grants 11.0 10.5 Total revenue funding 235.8 250.8 *Total Levy in 2017/18 is net of an adjustment of £91.3 million, largely in relation to the reduction of the Transport Levy as a one off refund of GMCA reserves to the ten district councils. Please note all figures are rounded. GMCA has budgeted to spend £250.8 million in total in 2017/18 on transport activities, excluding capital investment. Total Levy GMCA receives funding from several areas. The largest part comes from a levy on the ten Greater Manchester local authorities via council tax. In total, this accounts for £103.8 million in 2017/18. GMCA will therefore receive an average of £37.69 per person in Greater Manchester from the transport levy on council tax.

Special rail grant The Department for Transport (DfT) provides a rail grant to TfGM, which is budgeted to be £1.9 million in 2017/18. This contributes towards the costs that TfGM incurs on rail activities. Funding from reserves In addition, financial reserves and contributions from third parties will provide a further £134.6 million. As noted above, this includes £91.3 million, largely in relation to the reduction of the transport levy as a one-off refund of GMCA reserves to the ten district councils. This will subsequently be rebuilt by increasing the transport levy in future years. GMCA has approved the use of £13.4 million of reserves in 2017/18 to fund activities in relation to Bus Reform and Rail Station Devolution. The balance of funding from reserves is supporting further investment in transport activities, including through the Greater Manchester Transport Fund. Other grants GMCA and TfGM have been successful in securing capital and revenue funding from a number of sources. A total of £10.5 million of this revenue funding is budgeted to be spent in 2017/18. This includes funding for costs to support scheme development and feasibility work on known GMCA priorities, including the development of potential public transport, cycling and walking solutions that will support the city region’s growth agenda

 

[radamfi]

I thought that council funding from central government has been cut severely in the last few years meaning that councils can hardly afford to subsidise regular bus services never mind run free buses on NYE.

 

[philthetube]

The cost of the “free” travel is not huge. Don’t forget that it is only free from 23.45 to end of service. Everyone attending the NYE celebrations has to pay to get into London. Most would have hit an Oyster cap and have got most of their journey home free anyway. Many on paper tickets will have got a return as it is almost the same cost as a single. Even with free travel home, the extra revenue from all the journeys into London will offset the cost. With the crowds as big as they are, it makes sense to just open the barriers and let everyone through. Safer and simpler.

23.45 to 04.30 only, close of traffic is approx 0100 on the 2nd Jan.

 

[jon0844]

If we had proper joined up thinking, we'd consider the value of providing buses around the UK at New Year (and possibly even Christmas) as a way of discouraging people to drink and drive.

I am sure there would be enough volunteers to drive the buses if pay was sufficient, and I am not even sure they'd need to be free. Just well enough advertised that people would know they could rely on them, which I'm pretty sure that people wouldn't now - and so not even attempt to wait at a bus stop at 1 or 2am.

I was lucky to have a ride home from a party from someone who doesn't drink, but I'd checked the Uber app and it went from £13 before midnight to £68 after (surge pricing at its best).

I'd have happily taken a bus if it was an option. Of course it wasn't, free or not.

 

[Deerfold]

In West Yorkshire, I think there is a bus service over Xmas and boxing day when the trains aren't running, so the buses get NYD off instead. That's how it was explained to me.

In West Yorkshire the only buses on Christmas Day are local free volunteer services which do not use normal vehicles or staff (unless they're enthusiasts who also volunteer).

On Boxing Day there's a skeleton service similar to the daytime Sunday service on main routes. There's no early or late buses.

The last time Metro subsidised bus services on NYD it seemed to be set up to fail. It was 1999. Ripponden, the village I lived in at the time usually had 3 or 4 buses an hour into Halifax on a weekday, 2-3 an hour on a Sunday. On NYD it had 7 all day each way, split between 2 routes. Halifax - Leeds (508) and Halifax - Bradford (576 and 681) routes each ran every 2 hours.

 

[Deerfold]

I don't think it would be viable to axe it in London now, but I can't imagine it would be viable in many places. The costs would be enormous. Also it would encourage a lot more people to travel further afield and put more pressure on city centres. Also it would be extremely difficult to provide sufficient capacity for a sudden surge in demand after midnight. I think people just have to accept London is a special case really.

In the 90s there were significant night bus services on NYE in Nottingham and Leeds, primarily to encourage people to travel into the city centres and not to drive. I don't know how busy they were as they didn't run far enough out to be useful to me.

 

[yorksrob]

In West Yorkshire the only buses on Christmas Day are local free volunteer services which do not use normal vehicles or staff (unless they're enthusiasts who also volunteer).

On Boxing Day there's a skeleton service similar to the daytime Sunday service on main routes. Halifax gets 2 routes (503, 576). There's no early or late buses.

The last time Metro subsidised bus services on NYD it seemed to be set up to fail. It was 1999. Ripponden, the village I lived in at the time usually had 3 or 4 buses an hour into Halifax on a weekday, 2-3 an hour on a Sunday. On NYD it had 7 all day each way, split between 2 routes. Halifax - Leeds (508) and Halifax - Bradford (576 and 681) routes each ran every 2 hours.

Ah yes, it must have been Boxing Day I was thinking of.