ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[route101]

Yes it was busy but still plenty of seats free .. First class was almost empty, though I guess folk did not appreciate that it was looking really like first class accommodation compared to a 170.
The acceleration and speed impressive too. If it is a reliable train then it is indeed a great improvement.

Is there even first advances ?

 

[najaB]

Is there even first advances ?

There used to be, but I guess they only sell 18 in case a 170 has to sub.

 

[jingsmonty]

We're going off topic but what I would do is improve capacity on Ladybank-Hilton Jn first of all, including an east-west chord at Hilton and stations at Bridge of Earn and Newburgh. This brings value to the greatest number of passengers first. Then when the inevitable Moncrieffe Tunnel and Perth blockade comes, a viable service can still be operated to both Edinburgh and Glasgow with a station (that's needed anyway) close to both Perth and the motorway for easy transfers while remodelling is completed. Then they can electrify north of Dunblane and we get our bimodes.

Nothing so sensible will ever happen of course.

Sounds like a plan..now all we need are bimode trains that can match the comfort & performance of an HST...

 

[Clansman]

We're going off topic but what I would do is improve capacity on Ladybank-Hilton Jn first of all, including an east-west chord at Hilton and stations at Bridge of Earn and Newburgh. This brings value to the greatest number of passengers first. Then when the inevitable Moncrieffe Tunnel and Perth blockade comes, a viable service can still be operated to both Edinburgh and Glasgow with a station (that's needed anyway) close to both Perth and the motorway for easy transfers while remodelling is completed. Then they can electrify north of Dunblane and we get our bimodes.

Nothing so sensible will ever happen of course.

Agree with you there. Bridge of Earn to Dundee buses would be the most ideal for passengers as it's right next to the M90 and A90, so only a 25 minute bus journey at most between the two, easy journey connections to Glasgow and Edinburgh without much time lost, and the logistical convenience of conjoining Edinburgh and Glasgow services together via a new chord at Hilton Junction to avoid having to stretch the fleet as much.

But knowing how things normally pan out during any kind of rail blockade in the area, there'll be all stopper 1.5 hour long bus journeys from Stirling to Dundee instead.

Sounds like a plan..now all we need are bimode trains that can match the comfort & performance of an HST...

How possible would it be to build an exact replica of an Mk3 with modern technology and standards, and accomodate the design into a bi-mode multiple unit?

(Please accept my apology mods!)

 

[weatherman222]

According to Scotrail's website there are no fewer than 4 Aberdeen/Central Belt services this evening which have been changed from 4 carriages to 3 carriages, due to a train fault. All HSTs?

20:09 Aberdeen to Edinburgh due 22:47


Facilities on the 20:09 Aberdeen to Edinburgh due 22:47.
This is due to a train fault.
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 4.


Changes of formations and facilities:

• 19:39 Glasgow Queen Street to Aberdeen due 22:20
• 20:44 Aberdeen to Glasgow Queen Street due 23:19
• 21:40 Glasgow Queen Street to Aberdeen due 00:30
  

 

[jingsmonty]

Agree with you there. Bridge of Earn to Dundee buses would be the most ideal for passengers as it's right next to the M90 and A90, so only a 25 minute bus journey at most between the two, easy journey connections to Glasgow and Edinburgh without much time lost, and the logistical convenience of conjoining Edinburgh and Glasgow services together via a new chord at Hilton Junction to avoid having to stretch the fleet as much.

But knowing how things normally pan out during any kind of rail blockade in the area, there'll be all stopper 1.5 hour long bus journeys from Stirling to Dundee instead.


How possible would it be to build an exact replica of an Mk3 with modern technology and standards, and accomodate the design into a bi-mode multiple unit?

(Please accept my apology mods!)

It would never be done...

Travelled down to Glasgow Today- 158 Inverness to Perth, HST Perth to Glasgow & 170 Glasgow to Inverness.

Most pleasant & comfortable part of the trip? Perth to Glasgow HST. By a country mile. Would have gone through to Edinburgh & taken the 1336 back to Inverness, if a 170 hadn't been substituted!

On another note, I believe a set has been set aside in Inverness to run a dedicated staff training train again (which will help the training considerably) - I presume the same has happened elsewhere?

 

[Clansman]

It would never be done...

Travelled down to Glasgow Today- 158 Inverness to Perth, HST Perth to Glasgow & 170 Glasgow to Inverness.

Most pleasant & comfortable part of the trip? Perth to Glasgow HST. By a country mile. Would have gone through to Edinburgh & taken the 1336 back to Inverness, if a 170 hadn't been substituted!

On another note, I believe a set has been set aside in Inverness to run a dedicated staff training train again (which will help the training considerably) - I presume the same has happened elsewhere?

As you'll be aware it's sadly happened a lot recently. It's just unfortunate that it's not uncommon either, as it's as common to find single 158s working Edinburgh to Aberdeens and Glasgow to Aberdeens as it is 170s. A quick squint at the departure boards at Perth and Dundee will reveal pages of additional apology, no first class, and short form notices underneath at least half of the services listed.

If there is a set in Inverness for training then hopefully that'd at least speed up the process. From what I'm told, the quality of the training sets is appalling, and that has apparently hampered a good number training plans.

Here's hoping the second and third refurbished sets aren't too far away.

 

[jingsmonty]

As you'll be aware it's sadly happened a lot recently. It's just unfortunate that it's not uncommon either, as it's as common to find single 158s working Edinburgh to Aberdeens and Glasgow to Aberdeens as it is 170s. A quick squint at the departure boards at Perth and Dundee will reveal pages of additional apology, no first class, and short form notices underneath at least half of the services listed.

If there is a set in Inverness for training then hopefully that'd at least speed up the process. From what I'm told, the quality of the training sets is appalling, and that has apparently hampered a good number training plans.

Here's hoping the second and third refurbished sets aren't too far away.

I can't speak for other depots, but I've been involved in 4 separate blocks of training & I've only lost 1 run (out of 20) due to a fault. I lost 2 others with maintenance, but this was overdue/over running exams, rather than out & out failures (in fairness, one set failed catastrophically on it's way2eastfield, not long after we took it down to Perth!).

I'd like to think some of the issues with the training trains were due to it being a learning curve for all of us (including maintenance). Maybe wishful thinking on my part! The sets were, in no way, fit for passengers-cosmetically, the coaches were very poor inside, although the Classic I was on today was fine.

I hope to see more refurbished sets very soon - we need them Yesterday....I've not actually been 'close up' to it, but some of my hard bitten & cynical (sorry) colleagues had a look inside it & very pretty impressed.

On another note, I see the 1255 Inverness to Waverley is a 170

 

[380101]

I can't speak for other depots, but I've been involved in 4 separate blocks of training & I've only lost 1 run (out of 20) due to a fault. I lost 2 others with maintenance, but this was overdue/over running exams, rather than out & out failures (in fairness, one set failed catastrophically on it's way2eastfield, not long after we took it down to Perth!).

I'd like to think some of the issues with the training trains were due to it being a learning curve for all of us (including maintenance). Maybe wishful thinking on my part! The sets were, in no way, fit for passengers-cosmetically, the coaches were very poor inside, although the Classic I was on today was fine.

I hope to see more refurbished sets very soon - we need them Yesterday....I've not actually been 'close up' to it, but some of my hard bitten & cynical (sorry) colleagues had a look inside it & very pretty impressed.

On another note, I see the 1255 Inverness to Waverley is a 170

Yes, the solitary refurbished HST set is fantastic! Wabtec have done an excellent job on them. Just jealous we'll never get them at our depot!

Just a pity it'll be a few years till all 26 sets are in service.

 

[47271]

My experience since Friday has been roughly half and half 158s (one of them severely overcrowded) to 170s, all on runs normally booked for 170s, no cancellations and no HSTs.

The only HSTs I've seen have been sat looking gloomy in sidings. There's something particularly grim about that old FGW blue with no proper markings on it, the things almost look like they've been stripped for scrapping.

 

[385001]

Someone snapped the refurbished HST at Waverley this morning.

https://twitter.com/alanmbragg/status/1082549454513864704

 

[connormill]

Scotsman article, so take with pinch of salt

Usual warning of contract stripping etc, but an interesting paragraph about half way down:

Only some ten of the 26 trains have arrived, and only two of these have been refurbished, because of delays by US-owned refitter Wabtec

Has there been a second refurb set delivered, or have the Scotsman jumped the gun?



https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...e-stripped-of-scotrail-contract-1-4853331/amp

 

[Bletchleyite]

US-owned refitter Wabtec

What is it with the Press and the need to be xenophobic about the ownership of any particular given rail firm? I very much doubt ScotRail doing them in house would have gone any better.

 

[Highlandspring]

Has there been a second refurb set delivered, or have the Scotsman jumped the gun?

Only one refurbished set (HA26) has been delivered to ScotRail so far. The usual standard of school newspaper reporting from Alistair Dalton.

 

[Highland37]

Any update on set two? One of 26 due this year.

 

[jingsmonty]

Any update on set two? One of 26 due this year.

Rumour is that the arrival of Set 2 is imminent....

 

[158820]

There was a STP path in for a delivery just before Christmas but it was cancelled on the day.

 

[chuff chuff]

Rumour is that the arrival of Set 2 is imminent....

Ha that rumour almost has enough service to get it's long service award.

 

[Highland37]

26 sets to be delivered in 11 months?

Rumours are nothing without substance

 

[jingsmonty]

Ha that rumour almost has enough service to get it's long service award.

26 sets to be delivered in 11 months?

Rumours are nothing without substance

Quite right - rumours aren't worth the paper they're written on....

I believe I heard that the arrival of 1 or 2 sets is imminent, didn't hear that 26 sets will be delivered in 11 Months, mind....

 

[nicolaboo]

I'm up in the central Scots area in a few weeks.

Does anyone know which of the QS-AB, ED-AB or ED-INV services are likely to get a HST on it?
Or is it just pot luck and see what works on the day?

 

[BRX]

I'm up in the central Scots area in a few weeks.

Does anyone know which of the QS-AB, ED-AB or ED-INV services are likely to get a HST on it?
Or is it just pot luck and see what works on the day?

I'd recommend signing up to scot-rail.co.uk and keeping an eye on their gen or sightings lists.

http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/threads/sightings/page1/

 

[nicolaboo]

I'd recommend signing up to scot-rail.co.uk and keeping an eye on their gen or sightings lists.

http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/threads/sightings/page1/

Thanks

 

[Altnabreac]

Interestingly I've been noticing a few (normal, non enthusiast) people on Twitter messaging @scotrail on Twitter to say they are really impressed with the quality of the new Intercity trains.

When you check out their pictures quite often it is the "Classic" sets they are travelling on so there is a quality upgrade perception from 170s even with the unrefurbished stock.

This doesn't particularly surprise me but worth bearing in mind for any perception that a lack of a full set of refurbished HSTs by December 2019 will be a "crisis".

There will still be several problems from lack of refurbished stock:

• Lack of CET toilets will be an issue with the RMT;
• Need for DfT derogations post Jan 2020 may well be an issue;
• Increased dwell times with slam door stock may prevent some timetable improvements.

But once the training issues are resolved I'm not sure that customer quality perception is going to be an issue with the Classic Stock.

 

[InvHst]

I have it on good source that the 2nd refurb set will be heading north before January is up and is apparently heading for Perth. Perth depot and Inverness now have a training hst for runs to get their staff trained quicker. Inverness have the required amount of drivers but Perth are struggling.

 

[jingsmonty]

I'm up in the central Scots area in a few weeks.

Does anyone know which of the QS-AB, ED-AB or ED-INV services are likely to get a HST on it?
Or is it just pot luck and see what works on the day?

Interestingly I've been noticing a few (normal, non enthusiast) people on Twitter messaging @scotrail on Twitter to say they are really impressed with the quality of the new Intercity trains.

When you check out their pictures quite often it is the "Classic" sets they are travelling on so there is a quality upgrade perception from 170s even with the unrefurbished stock.

This doesn't particularly surprise me but worth bearing in mind for any perception that a lack of a full set of refurbished HSTs by December 2019 will be a "crisis".

There will still be several problems from lack of refurbished stock:

• Lack of CET toilets will be an issue with the RMT;
• Need for DfT derogations post Jan 2020 may well be an issue;
• Increased dwell times with slam door stock may prevent some timetable improvements.

But once the training issues are resolved I'm not sure that customer quality perception is going to be an issue with the Classic Stock.

I would agree with this - as I said Yesterday on this thread, I was down in Glasgow Yesterday, travelling on a 158 (Inverness to Perth), a 'Classic' HST (Perth to Glaagow QS) & a 170 (Glasgow QS to Inverness). The best part of the journey (by a country mile), for me, was the Perth - Glasgow QS HST - the uplift in quality was noticeable! The issues with increased dwell times, lack of CET toilets, etc are there (the dwell times are very noticeable to me when working 'Classic' HST stock), but the perceived quality to the passengers won't be an issue - I think they will actually be an asset come the busier summer months (hopefully we will see some more refurbished sets by then, though).

As for what workings are HST just now, is really is a case of 'Pot Luck' - I was going to go through to Edinburgh Yesterday to catch the 1336 to Inverness (booked for an HST), but checked online & it was a 170...so didn't bother. Only way to tell on the Scotrail website is to check the formation - if it's a 3 carriage, instead of 4, then it's a 170 vice HST. You may be really unlucky & get a 4 car 158, mind...

 

[Mingulay]

As you'll be aware it's sadly happened a lot recently. It's just unfortunate that it's not uncommon either, as it's as common to find single 158s working Edinburgh to Aberdeens and Glasgow to Aberdeens as it is 170s. A quick squint at the departure boards at Perth and Dundee will reveal pages of additional apology, no first class, and short form notices underneath at least half of the services listed.

If there is a set in Inverness for training then hopefully that'd at least speed up the process. From what I'm told, the quality of the training sets is appalling, and that has apparently hampered a good number training plans.

Here's hoping the second and third refurbished sets aren't too far away.

Eeeek! the prospect of a refurbished 158, known as the DVT Express, on a journey longer than half an hour is horrendous . Only fit for very short journey times . I would rather wait for the next service if faced with 2 hours or more on one of those dismal trains. .

 

[Esker-pades]

Eeeek! the prospect of a refurbished 158, known as the DVT Express, on a journey longer than half an hour is horrendous . Only fit for very short journey times . I would rather wait for the next service if faced with 2 hours or more on one of those dismal trains. .

Good luck on the Far North Line!

Honestly, the Inverness-based 158s are not bad. I certainly have nothing against them. It's the overcrowding and lower top speed that means I do not want to see them on InterCity services.

 

[jingsmonty]

Good luck on the Far North Line!

Honestly, the Inverness-based 158s are not bad. I certainly have nothing against them. It's the overcrowding and lower top speed that means I do not want to see them on InterCity services.

They are pretty dismal, it's true - they make a 170 look good! However, it's bearable - I went down to Perth on a Haymarket refurbished 158 &ght it was ok (the seats are not the best for legroom & the trays are far too low on the airline seats - but, I actually thought it was better than an Inverness 158!).

Funnily enough, I found the grammer seats (which I normally detest with a passion) on the 'classic' HST yesterday to actually be ok, despite being the same seat base as the Inverness 158s - the better legroom & better pitch does help...

 

[Highland37]

Great to hear that another HST may soon appear. I am looking forward to travelling on one. Maybe a Saturday morning service from Edinburgh to Inverness might be good as I am coming back from Austria.

As it happens, I got the train from Innsbruck to St Anton on Saturday. Double headed Siemens Eurosprinter locos and ten carriages.

The contrast with the junk 158 the night before was ever so slightly noticeable ..