Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[ChiefPlanner]

Exactly, every incident is different I know FCC had a lot of disruption plans to try to cater for every incident but at best they were only a guide to managing the disruption.

As to using certain actions, I used to disregard the no smoking ban whenever there was disruption affecting the station I was working at for the simple reason it prevented staff assaults as it made the atmosphere more calmer, never got criticised for doing that.

Sound words and actions ! , one incident we had where the WCML had a power outage - luckily on a Sunday afternoon - and a 4 car 321 just about coasted into Tring. The delay was about 40 mins to get the OLE recharged so the train crew organised a quick tab in the nearby pub beer garden (soft drinks only) for the passengers. It cost about £50 at 1996 prices - but the goodwill was extensive. Meanwhile I put one of the Bedford - Marston Vale class 31's into the dead section , wrong road (up to the protection) and towed a stranded Virgin 90 and it's down Liverpool to MK and back under the live wires and right away.

Tring booking office meanwhile - got the local coach operator to shuttle to Watford , (paying in advance by cash - with money taken out of the BO till)

 

[Hadders]

Exactly, every incident is different I know FCC had a lot of disruption plans to try to cater for every incident but at best they were only a guide to managing the disruption.

As to using certain actions, I used to disregard the no smoking ban whenever there was disruption affecting the station I was working at for the simple reason it prevented staff assaults as it made the atmosphere more calmer, never got criticised for doing that.

Sound words and actions ! , one incident we had where the WCML had a power outage - luckily on a Sunday afternoon - and a 4 car 321 just about coasted into Tring. The delay was about 40 mins to get the OLE recharged so the train crew organised a quick tab in the nearby pub beer garden (soft drinks only) for the passengers. It cost about £50 at 1996 prices - but the goodwill was extensive. Meanwhile I put one of the Bedford - Marston Vale class 31's into the dead section , wrong road (up to the protection) and towed a stranded Virgin 90 and it's down Liverpool to MK and back under the live wires and right away.

Tring booking office meanwhile - got the local coach operator to shuttle to Watford , (paying in advance by cash - with money taken out of the BO till)

Good work. Sometimes you just have to do the right thing, regardless of what level you’re at and regardless of what the policy might be.

 

[Aictos]

Good work. Sometimes you just have to do the right thing, regardless of what level you’re at and regardless of what the policy might be.

Indeed, I can recall numerous times that I've had to make my own decision regardless of policy.

Always had the full support of my company too regardless of the decision taken.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Indeed, I can recall numerous times that I've had to make my own decision regardless of policy.

Always had the full support of my company too regardless of the decision taken.

Good management will always support (safe) initiatives.

We had the 2340 EUS - Wolves a total failure at BY one evening - not my train , and not my business really. However, we ran an 8 car 321 using the BY night shunt crews to New Street for them. (making all stops they were booked for) , the Control never even rang me at home to tell me what they had done. Absolutely right thing to do.

There is more , but veering well off to the realms of "war stories" ........

 

[Failed Unit]

Exactly, every incident is different I know FCC had a lot of disruption plans to try to cater for every incident but at best they were only a guide to managing the disruption.

I feel that is the crux of the issue. GTR don’t seem to have any.

In this example it is basically loss of the main line between Stevenage and Alexander palace. Happens probably once every other month for various reasons.

Yes. You have more trains in sections in the peak. But the principal should be the same.

For GTR as an example.
Horsham - Peterborough. Turn 1tph at Finsbury Park, divert other via loop.
Brighton - Cambridge turn at London Bridge or Finsbury Park.
London - Cambridge. 1 tph or shuttle WGC - Cambridge
London - Kings Lynn / Ely. 1 tph kings Lynn only.

Whatever it is it should be ready to roll. GTR still may not be able to do this as they still haven’t got control of the failed May 2018 timetable implementation. But until they do have disruption plans their response will be like Monday. A shambles with no communication to staff / customers at stations.

If they do. It clearly isn’t working.

 

[ijmad]

I feel that is the crux of the issue. GTR don’t seem to have any.
Brighton - Cambridge turn at London Bridge or Finsbury Park.

I have a feeling it's harder to do this than it sounds. If you turn a train at London Bridge you'll need to find a southbound path for it to fit in to, and every minute over 3 that it's stopped in the platform it's holding up other Northbound trains behind it. I agree that better plans are needed but what is also needed is better turnback strategy, either using Kings Cross, or Blackfriars, or sidings, essentially places where a train that has to short turn can be stashed in to for a while until an appropriate 'slot' becomes available in the other direction.

 

[Aictos]

Good management will always support (safe) initiatives.

We had the 2340 EUS - Wolves a total failure at BY one evening - not my train , and not my business really. However, we ran an 8 car 321 using the BY night shunt crews to New Street for them. (making all stops they were booked for) , the Control never even rang me at home to tell me what they had done. Absolutely right thing to do.

There is more , but veering well off to the realms of "war stories" ........

Indeed, one unexpected bonus one time was being nominated for a team excellence award for the actions taken during disruption which was a nice way of saying well done guys! I rather have gone with chocs but hey ho!

 

[stut]

GN say - use buses x, y and z.
Reality - Arriva drivers force you to pay and don’t let you on? Why is this GNs fault? It happens to frequently they should have sorted it by now or stop advertising acceptance.

I wonder how keen Arriva are on the arrangement. For example, the 100 Luton-Hitchin-Stevenage service is well used, particularly by airport staff, and is already prone to delays due to the pinch points at the airport, Hitchin and Corey's Mill. It's only relatively recently gone from hourly to half-hourly, too, and Stevenage garage is having a whole load of reliability issues. Add in a whole load of commuters trying to get home across Herts if the ECML is down, and it's a particular joy for those of us trying to get home from the airport area to find our buses sailing past, full up, not to see another bus going for an hour (if that one does indeed stop).

 

[The Box Photter]

I have a feeling it's harder to do this than it sounds. If you turn a train at London Bridge you'll need to find a southbound path for it to fit in to, and every minute over 3 that it's stopped in the platform it's holding up other Northbound trains behind it. I agree that better plans are needed but what is also needed is better turnback strategy, either using Kings Cross, or Blackfriars, or sidings, essentially places where a train that has to short turn can be stashed in to for a while until an appropriate 'slot' becomes available in the other direction.

As has oft been quoted on here, you can't run trains into the bay platforms at Blackfriars from London Bridge - seems like a ludicrous oversight when the layout was planned, but ho-hum, Network Fail.

 

[jon0844]

I am saying the 0750 Cambridge north - London skipped the stop. Despite monitors on the platform saying it was stopping even taking the dispatcher by surprise. Yes they can stop on the fast at a red signal hence why real train times recorded it. But another poster actually used this to try from their armchair say it did stop. Someone decided in control to skip stop. Not tell staff on the ground so we have an empty time skip stopping with no benefit to anyone. You gave reasons why trains skip stop but I will never understand why this was a viewed a good idea. If it was - why not tell the poor staff at knebworth, Welwyn north, wgc and Hatfield who hadn’t had a southbound train stop of circa 2 hours. The mood on the platform change from the situation is unfortunate to anger (remember this kind of thing is common since May). It puts staff at risk as unfortunately some people take it out on them. (We will always condemn them). But as my criticism of GTR goes. They are often not responsible for the initial incident but always have no plan to recover after it. Information provide to staff is poor / wrong but people won’t accept this franchise is rotten at the contract level with respect to the fact DFT can do nothing to get them to improve.

Many poster leap directly to the defence of GTR without even checking the facts first. Not putting you in that category just saying it happens on here.

We had another poster on here (who doesn’t use the service) saying it is all our own fault and we should have got the bus to St Albans. This is tiresome as you personally know it is not possible without paying and takes about 1 hour so unless you know the line is shut for longer than that not worth it.

Of course trains on the fast lines can stop at a red, but there's no platform. If the signaller routes the train incorrectly so it doesn't switch to the slow, the train cannot stop. I know this sounds obvious, but you saying a train can stop at red is being rather pedantic. Point is, it isn't picking anyone up.

Realtimetrains won't know. It gets just as confused when a train diverts via the Hertford Loop. I've heard people say a train ran, and it did, but unaware that it didn't pass the station. It will show as delayed once it diverts at Alexandra Palace and then back on time once it gets to Stevenage. This is when many apps turn out to be useless, and often misleading enough to have people wait for a train that isn't coming.

There are so many things to go wrong. Who knows what happened with this particular train? Control not telling the signaller, a stop order not given on time, the driver refusing a stop order (but control not being aware to cancel the train before it sailed past). The list is endless and you say I am speculating from my armchair - well surely you're doing the same thing by jumping to a conclusion that may or may not be correct.

A fatality is likely to close things for a couple couple of hours so a bus to St Albans might be slow, but you're moving. You obviously know how bad it takes to recover, so I wouldn't stick around personally. Buses were put on at WGC to run to Alexandra Palace and back, but a friend tells me that some people opted to stay on the platform and wait (and wait, and wait) rather than take the bus.

At the end of the day, some people will make decisions for themselves on what to do. Some people will make bad choices. Hindsight sometimes proves that a decision was right after all (like getting a bus and then a train turns up running fast) but often you'll get it wrong. Such is life. God knows we've all been in that situation.

 

[cle]

As has oft been quoted on here, you can't run trains into the bay platforms at Blackfriars from London Bridge - seems like a ludicrous oversight when the layout was planned, but ho-hum, Network Fail.

I think it was completely intentional - separating more of the London Bridge and Elephant traffic, and even the Elephant four tracks into the right pairs - and enabling more conflict free journeys, and thus more reliable (and frequent ones). In theory, but look where we are now.

We've talked about the loop a lot, but that would have doubled in frequency - and so unlocked more London Bridge to core services, negating the need for the bays. Hoping one day a TOC just pulls the trigger and makes the change.

 

[Failed Unit]

Of course trains on the fast lines can stop at a red, but there's no platform. If the signaller routes the train incorrectly so it doesn't switch to the slow, the train cannot stop. I know this sounds obvious, but you saying a train can stop at red is being rather pedantic. Point is, it isn't picking anyone up.

Realtimetrains won't know. It gets just as confused when a train diverts via the Hertford Loop. I've heard people say a train ran, and it did, but unaware that it didn't pass the station. It will show as delayed once it diverts at Alexandra Palace and then back on time once it gets to Stevenage. This is when many apps turn out to be useless, and often misleading enough to have people wait for a train that isn't coming.

There are so many things to go wrong. Who knows what happened with this particular train? Control not telling the signaller, a stop order not given on time, the driver refusing a stop order (but control not being aware to cancel the train before it sailed past). The list is endless and you say I am speculating from my armchair - well surely you're doing the same thing by jumping to a conclusion that may or may not be correct.

A fatality is likely to close things for a couple couple of hours so a bus to St Albans might be slow, but you're moving. You obviously know how bad it takes to recover, so I wouldn't stick around personally. Buses were put on at WGC to run to Alexandra Palace and back, but a friend tells me that some people opted to stay on the platform and wait (and wait, and wait) rather than take the bus.

At the end of the day, some people will make decisions for themselves on what to do. Some people will make bad choices. Hindsight sometimes proves that a decision was right after all (like getting a bus and then a train turns up running fast) but often you'll get it wrong. Such is life. God knows we've all been in that situation.

Don’t understand your point about stop orders. Drivers refusing. Signaller being inept. The train was scheduled to stop. As if does every day. Why would this be confusing because of disruption? I know you need to defend GTRs incompetence (sorry offer a different view point) but this trains stopping pattern was its normal service stopping pattern.

 

[jon0844]

If this was a scheduled service then it must have been a signalling error to go through on the fast. I apologise for thinking you were talking about a stop order on a train, hence my recounting of the issues in the timetable fiasco.

If the train was set to skip stops it should have been announced as cancelled. Even then it would still almost certainly be routed the same way and just come through the platform, much to the annoyance of passengers.

Alternatively there was a reason that the train HAD to use the fast that neither you or I know about. If it was a scheduled service there's no reason for it to be on the wrong line.

I realise I'm guessing here as I wasn't there, but you can surely see there are loads of possible reasons. Neither of us know what they are.

 

[Failed Unit]

If this was a scheduled service then it must have been a signalling error to go through on the fast. I apologise for thinking you were talking about a stop order on a train, hence my recounting of the issues in the timetable fiasco.

If the train was set to skip stops it should have been announced as cancelled. Even then it would still almost certainly be routed the same way and just come through the platform, much to the annoyance of passengers.

Alternatively there was a reason that the train HAD to use the fast that neither you or I know about. If it was a scheduled service there's no reason for it to be on the wrong line.

I realise I'm guessing here as I wasn't there, but you can surely see there are loads of possible reasons. Neither of us know what they are.

There could be. Most likely as it missed its scheduled stops at Knebworth, Welwyn North, WGC and Hatfield was someone in control thought it was a good idea to run an empty train past platforms full of passengers....

It was more than 10 minutes late. GTRs policy in this situation is trains must skip stops. If it inconveniences passengers or makes no difference to getting the train back on time. It doesn’t matter. I doubt it was signalling error a 2Cxx must stand out like a sore thumb.

 

[Firestarter]

Another service went down the wrong road at Blackfriars N.Bound this morning:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W02891/2019/01/16/advanced

Guessing it was sent into P2 in error - they had to reverse back and reset. It's worrying how frequently this seems to be happening.

When was the time before?

 

[Failed Unit]

I will praise where it is due

Tonight the 1726 Finsbury Park - Peterborough service was stood in platform 7 at Finsbury Park with no driver. (Incoming delayed because of a failed class 700)

They moved the 1731 Cambridge service to platform 5 (I assume with relief driver) and it left on time rather than getting stuck behind it.

The Peterborough service is also on the move.

They are learning perhaps? It did amuse me they asked passengers not to run. You have given us 1 minutes notice. The train won’t wait. What do you expect?

 

[jon0844]

Since a lot of trains now dispatch themselves at Finsbury Park, the ability to hold trains has sadly gone.

 

[Failed Unit]

Since a lot of trains now dispatch themselves at Finsbury Park, the ability to hold trains has sadly gone.

Yep. Sadly this isn’t the end of the story tonight. Struggling to get to WGC and not much passing the other way.

 

[jon0844]

Yep. Sadly this isn’t the end of the story tonight. Struggling to get to WGC and not much passing the other way.

Seems to be an object struck (metal, not person) in the Welwyn North tunnel.

That and an earlier broken down train at Knebworth (and, yes, it was a GN service).

 

[Failed Unit]

Seems to be an object struck (metal, not person) in the Welwyn North tunnel.

At WGC we have a HT service on platform 2. (Assume it struck the object as I can’t think of another explanation) and a Cambridge to Brighton on 1. Things are moving north.

 

[jon0844]

At WGC we have a HT service on platform 2. (Assume it struck the object as I can’t think of another explanation) and a Cambridge to Brighton on 1. Things are moving north.

Some metal appears to have done damage to shoegear on 9S49. It was 1A95 that reported a loud bang (Hull Trains) and it is indeed being checked out at WGC.

Metal now moved clear of line.

(One hopes it isn't another issue with the 180s)

 

[Failed Unit]

Some metal appears to have done damage to shoegear on 9S49. It was 1A95 that reported a loud bang (Hull Trains) and it is indeed being checked out at WGC.

Metal now moved clear of line.

(One hopes it isn't another issue with the 180s)

I can see why the may skip WGC southbound tonight now all platforms are full.

 

[jon0844]

I can see why the may skip WGC southbound tonight now all platforms are full.

Is it preventing the use of platform 1? Luckily the points problem immediately south of 1&2 was fixed last Friday, or platform 1 would have been out of use and then it really would be bad.

 

[Failed Unit]

Is it preventing the use of platform 1? Luckily the points problem immediately south of 1&2 was fixed last Friday, or platform 1 would have been out of use and then it really would be bad.

The Cambridge - Brighton is on 1

 

[tsr]

(One hopes it isn't another issue with the 180s)

It is. Sort of. The metal is likely to have fallen off a 180, but whether that was caused by it hitting something else is currently being investigated as I type.

 

[jon0844]

It is. Sort of. The metal is likely to have fallen off a 180, but whether that was caused by it hitting something else is currently being investigated as I type.

Goes to see if Paddy Power allows 'in game betting' on train problem..

 

[700007]

Why does Hull Trains keep striking objects on the line as of late?

 

[Fred26]

Why does Hull Trains keep striking objects on the line as of late?

Apparently a panel fell off the HT and then the following two services hit it.
Moorgate train sat at Stevenage, no driver. Driver who brought it in has left the scene, nowhere to be found. Line blocked until they can find someone to move it.
Now control are trying to get a 365 12 car stopped at Arlesey and Sandy. Clever.

 

[MJG]

When was the time before?

A few weeks ago I was on a TL service due to go through the core that was accidentally sent into P3 (one of the terminating platforms). The driver admitted that 'due to a signalling error' the service was to be terminated there. And then they mess up an SE service today. Not impressive.

 

[Surreytraveller]

A few weeks ago I was on a TL service due to go through the core that was accidentally sent into P3 (one of the terminating platforms). The driver admitted that 'due to a signalling error' the service was to be terminated there. And then they mess up an SE service today. Not impressive.

But it's also the driver's fault for accepting the route, unless they cannot stop before the signal. Which approaching a terminal platform is unlikely