TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[mikemcniven]

Additional update:

It’s done the run to Carlisle. It’s then heading down to Bletchley and then returning to Longsight MID this evening, getting in around 500 miles today by my calculations using RailMiles and the schedules on RealTime Trains.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Additional update:

It’s done the run to Carlisle. It’s then heading down to Bletchley and then returning to Longsight MID this evening, getting in around 500 miles today by my calculations using RailMiles and the schedules on RealTime Trains.

500 Miles? Is one of the Proclaimers driving it?

 

[66Yorks]

Nice photo.

Two Yorkshire diagrams a day now with light engine 68s between York and Scarborough.

Pic of 0B67 arriving in York at 16:07

View attachment 57801

 

[mikemcniven]

Today's run from Carlisle halted at Crewe and returned back to Manchester International Depot as a VSTP schedule via Stockport.

Not sure what happened, seems to have ran early so not the old issue returning (I hope) maybe down to driver hours or something, I will try and find out and post when I know more.

 

[SP Man]

No real issue, a couple of little tweaks to do before a full week next week. Decision taken to get it back to allow this to be done today then wait until it gets back at 1730.

 

[mikemcniven]

So I have heard suggestions that for fault free running they need 2,000 miles, which when you consider today it did around 500 miles is only 4 days of run out to MID - Carlisle - Bletchley - MID

When they've completed fault free running for each set, do we know what then happens, are they handed over for training or what?

 

[59CosG95]

Any news on further deliveries by the way?
AIUI, the following sets have been delivered:

• TP01
• TP02
• TP03
• TP04
• TP05
• TP06
• TP09; which puts us over halfway.

Therefore,

• TP07
• TP08
• TP10
• TP11
• TP12
• TP13

and spare DT 12814 have yet to be delivered.

 

[Suraggu]

So I have heard suggestions that for fault free running they need 2,000 miles, which when you consider today it did around 500 miles is only 4 days of run out to MID - Carlisle - Bletchley - MID

When they've completed fault free running for each set, do we know what then happens, are they handed over for training or what?

The first two sets required around 4500 miles of fault free running then the rest at 2000.

 

[Ben Bow]

The first two sets as in TP01 & TP02, or any two random sets which happened to be tested first?

 

[Ben Bow]

Today's run from Carlisle to Bletchley was caped at Crewe due to a "problem with the train". Heading back to Longsight now.

 

[BeHereNow]

So I have heard suggestions that for fault free running they need 2,000 miles, which when you consider today it did around 500 miles is only 4 days of run out to MID - Carlisle - Bletchley - MID

When they've completed fault free running for each set, do we know what then happens, are they handed over for training or what?

Then you have to wait until TransPennine want to actually get them in service, which given the cost of leasing extra trains is likely to be as late as possible.

 

[Jozhua]

Then you have to wait until TransPennine want to actually get them in service, which given the cost of leasing extra trains is likely to be as late as possible.

Hopefully they introduce them soon, even if it's not the full fleet because they desperately need the capacity. Whilst the cost of leasing extra trains will be there, I can't imagine the severe overcrowding on many of their routes is doing them much good. I certainly try to avoid using them as much as possible.

 

[BeHereNow]

Hopefully they introduce them soon, even if it's not the full fleet because they desperately need the capacity. Whilst the cost of leasing extra trains will be there, I can't imagine the severe overcrowding on many of their routes is doing them much good. I certainly try to avoid using them as much as possible.

Me too. However, even before the May 2018 disaster, First Group was expecting to lose £106m through the TransPennine contract. They need the extra carriages on the books like a hole in the head.

That's why this technical modification is being milked as the reason for an 18 month delay into service. Not their fault, see?

 

[Jozhua]

Me too. However, even before the May 2018 disaster, First Group was expecting to lose £106m through the TransPennine contract. They need the extra carriages on the books like a hole in the head.

That's why this technical modification is being milked as the reason for an 18 month delay into service. Not their fault, see?

I can certainly see that... I'm sure if they pushed CAF they'd work on a solution quickly, however they certainly seem to be taking their sweet time.

How have they managed to lose £106 million? Every single one of their trains is full to the point of overcrowding 7 days a week so they must have minimal track charges/fuel per passenger. Methinks someone is fiddling the books to get some extra cash out the DaFT...

Meanwhile, as always, the average paying customer suffers!

 

[keith1879]

Every single one of their trains is full to the point of overcrowding 7 days a week so they must have minimal track charges/fuel per passenger.

I try to avoid being argumentative but this really cannot go unchallenged. I have used Transpennine a great deal over the past 10 years or so. Travel from Leeds to Manchester in the peak and your statement is fair comment - but travel off-peak during a weekday and there are always spare seats - I did this on a Tuesday and Wednesday in December and paid very low advance purchase prices. Trans Pennine have peaks and troughs to face just like other companies.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I can certainly see that... I'm sure if they pushed CAF they'd work on a solution quickly, however they certainly seem to be taking their sweet time.

How have they managed to lose £106 million? Every single one of their trains is full to the point of overcrowding 7 days a week so they must have minimal track charges/fuel per passenger. Methinks someone is fiddling the books to get some extra cash out the DaFT...

Meanwhile, as always, the average paying customer suffers!

Not lost it yet. That is the estimated loss over the course of the franchise.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Then you have to wait until TransPennine want to actually get them in service, which given the cost of leasing extra trains is likely to be as late as possible.

But there will be penalties for not introducing more capacity into major cities as per the franchise agreement.
I don't know what the leasing costs are, but it is entirely possible that the cost of the new trains is less than the Desiros (per vehicle).
In the same way that WMT has dumped the 350/2s for new Aventras.

 

[BeHereNow]

But there will be penalties for not introducing more capacity into major cities as per the franchise agreement.
I don't know what the leasing costs are, but it is entirely possible that the cost of the new trains is less than the Desiros (per vehicle).
In the same way that WMT has dumped the 350/2s for new Aventras.

But the 13x 6-vehicle loco sets are simply additional, and no 185s are offleased until the Class 802s are delivered.

What penalties should apply do you think?

 

[Suraggu]

Me too. However, even before the May 2018 disaster, First Group was expecting to lose £106m through the TransPennine contract. They need the extra carriages on the books like a hole in the head.

That's why this technical modification is being milked as the reason for an 18 month delay into service. Not their fault, see?

What an absolute load of rubbish. CAF have built a product that is lacking on quality. They built them quick and then find out about the problems with these sets which has been numerous. As this forum is open to the public to view I won't be divulging what issues they have had but CAF really should look at better build quality checks before the sets leave the factory.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

But the 13x 6-vehicle loco sets are simply additional, and no 185s are offleased until the Class 802s are delivered.
What penalties should apply do you think?

The details are of course redacted, but TPE's commitment is to introduce additional capacity at peak times into Manchester and Leeds (and elsewhere) by certain dates.
DfT isn't bothered how TPE do it, or what it costs, but it will be a commercial target.
Just deferring the new trains (or additional old ones, like the Mk3s) doesn't meet the commitment.
DfT tends to apply penalties by forcing cheap fare offers on affected routes, or offering extra passenger benefits.
LM repeatedly had to do this on its routes out of Euston because of performance issues.

 

[MisterT]

It is strange to read about so many build quality issues with the CAF trains.
We have received quite a good product in the Netherlands and so far it outperforms every other new train in terms of reliability, even the Stadler FLIRT did worse in the first few months.
I have to admit though, that the first trains that were built for testing purposes had a few build quality issues too. This was noticed by NS before the trains were finished, and CAF changed quite a few things in the production line for the final product.

 

[Tazman72]

Haha, that's the first time I've ever been close to PR (or PC).yes quite fatal, it's a little bit more than fatal but not as much as definitely fatal!

I take it your a driver at Crewe SP MAN

 

[Northhighland]

What an absolute load of rubbish. CAF have built a product that is lacking on quality. They built them quick and then find out about the problems with these sets which has been numerous. As this forum is open to the public to view I won't be divulging what issues they have had but CAF really should look at better build quality checks before the sets leave the factory.

Or maybe the purchaser would do what most engineering firms would do and carry out some factory acceptance testing before they were shipped?

 

[SP Man]

I take it your a driver at Crewe SP MAN

Of sorts...

 

[BeHereNow]

What an absolute load of rubbish. CAF have built a product that is lacking on quality. They built them quick and then find out about the problems with these sets which has been numerous. As this forum is open to the public to view I won't be divulging what issues they have had but CAF really should look at better build quality checks before the sets leave the factory.

I'm not saying there haven't been technical faults.

What I'm saying is that by the time this fault was found and announced, TransPennine don't appear to completed the staff training, depots and platform extensions required to get the Nova 3 trains and 6-Car class 185 sets in operation. As others have said they don't appear to be in any hurry at all.

 

[BeHereNow]

The details are of course redacted, but TPE's commitment is to introduce additional capacity at peak times into Manchester and Leeds (and elsewhere) by certain dates.
DfT isn't bothered how TPE do it, or what it costs, but it will be a commercial target.
Just deferring the new trains (or additional old ones, like the Mk3s) doesn't meet the commitment.
DfT tends to apply penalties by forcing cheap fare offers on affected routes, or offering extra passenger benefits.
LM repeatedly had to do this on its routes out of Euston because of performance issues.

That is exactly what should happen, yes

 

[MalaiseForever]

Whatever the issue is with these new trains they are desperately needed, because I’m not sure how much longer people can take the overcrowding at peak times. This leads to significantly increased dwell times in places like Leeds, causing a cascading effect if delays.

 

[mikemcniven]

3H22 ran over 365 minutes early again today after the run from Carlisle terminated early at Crewe for the third day in a row, I caught up with it at Gatley as it returned to Manchester International Depot. It was again 68032 along with set TP09, I will add in more images shortly when I've edited and uploaded them.

(Seems the forum is having a few issues, if you press on the photo title below each one it will take you to Flickr to see the photo there)

Transpennine Express 68032 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

Transpennine Express 12809 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


The New and The Old by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

 

[Buspilot]

The fault isn't the matter of the destination display on the driving trailer being upside down is it?

Check the photo of 12809.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fault isn't the matter of the destination display on the driving trailer being upside down is it?

Check the photo of 12809.

That shows a quite outrageous lack of attention to detail!