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LNR new WCML timetable, May 2019 (in open data feeds)

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pt_mad

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http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...7/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=LM

Long distance wise, excluding services operating exclusively on the South WCML (not operating North of Northampton):

Looking at a snapshot on RTT at LNR trains at Birmingham International on 27th May 19, the general hourly off peak pattern M - F. Correct if wrong.

[Edit: Have taken previous general hourly pattern out of post due to route planners now showing some trains will join and split at Birmingham New St, to avoid complications and confusions. Further discussion of printed timetables and stopping patterns can be found between posters further in the thread].

Also worth mentioning there are some services starting from or terminating at Coventry.

Quite a drastic change as far as through WCML services go. Could it be the biggest change on the route since the Very High Frequency timetable was introduced into operation by Virgin Trains back in 2008?

Like the idea of less trains starting and terminating at Birmingham New St. Capacity wise. Seems quite innovative. And appears the towns of Walsall and Cannock get their first ever off peak hourly service to London. And it appears Smethwick Galton Bridge and Penkridge do too.
Also by default links the likes of Northampton, Coventry, Birmingham Intl, Marston Green etc directly to Liverpool with no changes.
 
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Jorge Da Silva

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http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...7/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=LM

Long distance wise, excluding services operating exclusively on the South WCML (not operating North of Northampton):

Looking at a snapshot on RTT at LNR trains at Birmingham International on 27th May 19, the general hourly off peak pattern M - F appears to be: (correct if wrong please)

Southbound
1 X Liverpool Lime St to London Euston via Birmingham and Northampton.
1 X Liverpool Lime St to Birmingham Intl.
1 X Crewe to London Euston via Stoke on Trent, Birmingham and Northampton.
1 X Rugeley Trent Valley to London Euston via Cannock, Walsall, Birmingham and Northampton.
(1 X Rugeley Trent Valley to Birmingham Intl via Birmingham New St, WMRailway)
(1 X Crewe to London Euston via Stafford and fast lines from Rugby).

Northbound
1 X London Euston to Liverpool Lime St via Northampton and Birmingham.
1 X Birmingham Intl to Liverpool Lime St.
1 X London Euston to Crewe via Northampton, Birmingham and Stoke on Trent.
1 X London Euston to Rugeley Trent Valley via Northampton, Birmingham, Walsall and Cannock.
(1 X Birmingham Intl to Rugeley Trent Valley via Birmingham New St, WMRailway)
(1 X London Euston to Crewe via Stafford, fastline to Rugby).

Also worth mentioning there are some services starting from or terminating at Coventry, not included.

Quite a drastic change as far as through WCML services go. Could it be the biggest change on the route since the Very High Frequency timetable was introduced into operation by Virgin Trains back in 2008?

Like the idea of less trains starting and terminating at Birmingham New St. Capacity wise. Seems quite innovative. And appears the towns of Walsall and Cannock get their first ever off peak hourly service to London.

This is all from May 2019? It would be the most radical change since 2008 on the WCML. I am looking forward to the changes and a ‘budget’ Liverpool-London service would be welcomed! Thanks for posting the timetable!
 

pt_mad

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This is all from May 2019? It would be the most radical change since 2008 on the WCML. I am looking forward to the changes and a ‘budget’ Liverpool-London service would be welcomed! Thanks for posting the timetable!

Appears to be, from timetables published on Realtime Trains, Open Train Times, which afaik take their data from open rail data feeds. May is of course the major planned timetable change for LNR. And it was expected that less trains would start and terminate from Birmingham New St.
 

Jorge Da Silva

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Appears to be, from timetables published on Realtime Trains, Open Train Times, which afaik take their data from open rail data feeds. May is of course the major planned timetable change for LNR.

It will be a major boost for passengers I suppose. Will they get more class 350’s from TPE by then for the new services as part of the timetable changes.
 

thecrofter

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Yes indeed it is a major change on West Coast and West Midlands. WMT has based their new LNR and WMR timetable on the premise that most existing delays are caused at Birmingham New Street through turnaround times that can be virtually eliminated by passing services through rather than terminating. Walsall - Rugeley Electrification was key to this being a success and without it being ready one can see why DfT chose to postpone the change as it most likely would have been another GTR/Northern fiasco in waiting.
 

ys123

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http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...7/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=LM

Long distance wise, excluding services operating exclusively on the South WCML (not operating North of Northampton):

Looking at a snapshot on RTT at LNR trains at Birmingham International on 27th May 19, the general hourly off peak pattern M - F appears to be: (correct if wrong please)

Southbound
1 X Liverpool Lime St to London Euston via Birmingham and Northampton.
1 X Liverpool Lime St to Birmingham
Hopefully
 

Ianno87

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Just analysing (for personal interest) connections at Nuneaton (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea.../0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=pax-callsℴ=wtt&toc=LM) to/from Stansted Airport services, particularly the Crewe-Euston.

Stansted-bound works out at about 20 minutes or so, so could be competitive for some North West-East Anglia journeys with running direct Crewe-Stafford.

Other way (Crewe-bound) is less competitive, with about 50 minutes at Nuneaton!
 

The Planner

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Is it that radical? if it was a recast with new paths (which is nigh on impossible without a WCML re-write) then fair enough, but it is just gluing services together really.
 

Jorge Da Silva

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Is it that radical? if it was a recast with new paths (which is nigh on impossible without a WCML re-write) then fair enough, but it is just gluing services together really.

You are right. It is basically existing services extended or modified with no new paths but there are many major changes with a Liverpool-London Euston service introduced!
 

DarloRich

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Is it that radical? if it was a recast with new paths (which is nigh on impossible without a WCML re-write) then fair enough, but it is just gluing services together really.

thanks - that is what i thought.

Are there any "new" services? Whats is the impact on most important part of the line into Euston?
 

Bletchleyite

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I think the Brum to Crewe via Stoke one is the only wholly additional service. The rest are joined existing ones.

The Liverpool one doesn't stop at Bletchley - shame, that would actually be useful!
 

Jorge Da Silva

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I think the Brum to Crewe via Stoke one is the only wholly additional service. The rest are joined existing ones.

The Liverpool one doesn't stop at Bletchley - shame, that would actually be useful!

You are right.

  • Liverpool to London via Birmingham and Northampton is a merge between the existing Liverpool to Birmingham New Street service and Birmingham to London
  • Liverpool to Birmingham International is a merge between the existing Liverpool to Birmingham New Street service and the local Birmingham NS-International service
  • Crewe to London Euston via Stoke-on-Trent and Northampton: New Paths between Stafford and Birmingham to replace the existing Crewe to London service which will be diverted to run non-stop between Crewe and Stafford. This would use the second train path an hour between Euston and Birmingham.
  • Rugeley Trent Valley to London service is an extension to the WMR Birmingham NS-Rugeley via Walsall and merged with the the third London-Birmingham service.
Instead of the current:

  • 2tph: London Euston to Tring
  • 1tph: London Euston to Milton Keynes Central
  • 3tph: London Euston to Birmingham New Street
  • 1tph: London Euston to Crewe via Trent Valley and Stoke
  • 2tph: Birmingham New Street to Liverpool Lime Street
To the future:

  • 2tph: London Euston to Tring
  • 1tph: London Euston to Milton Keynes Central
  • 1tph: London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street via Birmingham
  • 1tph: London Euston to Rugeley Trent Valley via Walsall
  • 1tph: London Euston to Crewe via Trent Valley
  • 1tph: London Euston to Crewe via Birmingham and Stoke
  • 1tph: Birmingham International to Liverpool Lime Street
 
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pt_mad

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Just analysing (for personal interest) connections at Nuneaton (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea.../0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=pax-callsℴ=wtt&toc=LM) to/from Stansted Airport services, particularly the Crewe-Euston.

Stansted-bound works out at about 20 minutes or so, so could be competitive for some North West-East Anglia journeys with running direct Crewe-Stafford.

Other way (Crewe-bound) is less competitive, with about 50 minutes at Nuneaton!

Looking at it, it looks a more realistic connection alighting the local Leicester to Birmingham service which looks to arrive at Nuneaton around 43/44 past the hour, and connecting for Crewe services at around 5 to the hour. If traveling from East Anglia,would the journey times be better via the long connection at Nuneaton or Via Birmingham? I suspect with Crewe via the mainline it may still be faster via Nuneaton to say, Liverpool, Scotland or North Wales?
 

Idon'tKnow

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The new timetable is bizzare.
No trains from Lichfield (and Rugeley) to Stafford between 0802 and 0918 (a downgrade from the current morning peak services) but a 2144 (virgin) and new LNR services at 2149 and 2212 from Stafford to the Trent valley stations. I wonder why is there such an intensive service late night?!
 

pt_mad

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Is it that radical? if it was a recast with new paths (which is nigh on impossible without a WCML re-write) then fair enough, but it is just gluing services together really.

I suppose it could be seen as radical that connectivity is improving quite a bit for quite a lot of places. I.e. direct services instead of changing at Birmingham. It links more places to places without new paths, which seems quite a neat plan really. And it can boast new hourly London services for some decent towns, Cannock, Walsall, Smethwick, for the first-time ever. Which is probably quite a thing for them really. Especially considering its all on day one of the timetable, rather than Walsall gets a gradual introduction of daytime London services. It's a brand-new hourly service from the off. Without new capacity, paths, probably huge amounts of train crew being needed. Wonder whether LM planned anything similar with their bid.
 

Bletchleyite

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I suppose it could be seen as radical that connectivity is improving quite a bit for quite a lot of places. I.e. direct services instead of changing at Birmingham. It links more places to places without new paths, which seems quite a neat plan really. And it can boast new hourly London services for some decent towns, Cannock, Walsall, Smethwick, for the first-time ever. Which is probably quite a thing for them really. Especially considering its all on day one of the timetable, rather than Walsall gets a gradual introduction of daytime London services. It's a brand-new hourly service from the off. Without new capacity, paths, probably huge amounts of train crew being needed. Wonder whether LM planned anything similar with their bid.

It’s probably a natural continuation of what LM did - after all the Trent Valley service didn’t even need to go to Euston at all per spec!
 

sufian123

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Do you mean that the Liverpool to Birmingham NS service will be joined to the Birmingham New Street to Birmingham International? In other words no new path

Birmingham Airport to new st shuttle will be extended to Liverpool picking the xx36 path at new st. This happens now 0718 airport-Liverpool service. This from May will happen regularly.
 

pt_mad

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I expect the use of electric stock to Rugeley will free up some diesel units for use elsewhere. Not sure whether these would be used to provide the extra workings on the Shrewsbury Route. Possibly.
 

sufian123

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I expect the use of electric stock to Rugeley will free up some diesel units for use elsewhere. Not sure whether these would be used to provide the extra workings on the Shrewsbury Route. Possibly.

Including Hereford as well desperately needed. Half an hourly service between new st-Shrewsbury both ways. Also hourly Sunday service.
 

pt_mad

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Including Hereford as well desperately needed. Half an hourly service between new st-Shrewsbury both ways. Also hourly Sunday service.
Is there a class 153 sometimes attached to a 170 on the Chase Line currently?
 

pt_mad

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On a slightly related note, when 350s work to Euston in multiples, where does auto Annie announce first class as being located? 'First class is one third and two thirds along the train'???
 

TheBigD

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Will be interesting to see the PPM once these services cross Birmingham services start and late running is transfered on to other routes, especially during times of disruption. I suspect, but hope I'm wrong, that reliability, or rather the lack of, will be a major issue.
 

pt_mad

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Will be interesting to see the PPM once these services cross Birmingham services start and late running is transfered on to other routes, especially during times of disruption. I suspect, but hope I'm wrong, that reliability, or rather the lack of, will be a major issue.
And I wonder what will use the bay platform at New St instead of the Liverpool? Maybe the Shrewsbury's will, with Liverpools requiring a through platform?
 
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