Northern timetable changes May 2019

[absolutelymilk]

Northern's services have started to be entered in Real Train Times, and because there are likely to be a few big changes, I thought they deserved their own thread.

At this time, there are a couple of Hazel Grove - Blackpool services loaded in which are three minutes quicker between Piccadilly and Preston than the current services, partly because they have one fewer stop - I thought there would be more of a time gain than this! They are pathed as Class 323s.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=NT

 

[agbrs_Jack]

There are also two Stoke-Blackpool North services on Sunday night, they look hourly so I hope the rest appear!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=NT

 

[Jamesrob637]

Sunday hourly on the Chester via Altrincham line yet, or is that scheduled for December? It's already gonna be 18 months late even if May!

 

[NORMAN471]

Northern's services have started to be entered in Real Train Times, and because there are likely to be a few big changes, I thought they deserved their own thread.

At this time, there are a couple of Hazel Grove - Blackpool services loaded in which are three minutes quicker between Piccadilly and Preston than the current services, partly because they have one fewer stop - I thought there would be more of a time gain than this! They are pathed as Class 323s.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=NT

I can't see one stop fewer which is it?

 

[absolutelymilk]

I can't see one stop fewer which is it?

I'm not sure which current service I was comparing it to, but the one I chose (just at random) stopped at Blackrod and Adlington, but skipped Leyland, so one more than the new service.

However, it looks like this current service:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y53723/2019/01/21/advanced
has the same calling pattern as the new one but is two minutes slower.

 

[vlad]

There are also two Stoke-Blackpool North services on Sunday night, they look hourly so I hope the rest appear!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=NT

So you'll finally be able to get a through train from Adlington to Adlington!

 

[RAPC]

I'm not sure which current service I was comparing it to, but the one I chose (just at random) stopped at Blackrod and Adlington, but skipped Leyland, so one more than the new service.

Both the services on your link stop at Leyland. Where is the one that doesn't?

Leyland currently has had a couple that don't stop for some reason in the peak time, despite a regular calling pattern the rest of the time. Entirely possible that there will be similar when all the new times are confirmed.

 

[superkev]

Now that the eastern end Calder Valley resignalling has been completed and trains seem to be arrive at stations early I'm hoping for the promised stop at the £16M Low Moor station as well as some journey time improvements.
K

 

[absolutelymilk]

Both the services on your link stop at Leyland. Where is the one that doesn't?

Leyland currently has had a couple that don't stop for some reason in the peak time, despite a regular calling pattern the rest of the time. Entirely possible that there will be similar when all the new times are confirmed.

I couldn't find it when I looked again, possibly it was one of the peak time ones then.

 

[Chester1]

Sunday hourly on the Chester via Altrincham line yet, or is that scheduled for December? It's already gonna be 18 months late even if May!

I can tolerate most delays but its unacceptable that Northern have been allowed to not introduce new Sunday services that are in the franchise agreement. Its not about rolling stock or paths, its just them not wanting to run services that will lose money.

 

[agbrs_Jack]

I can tolerate most delays but its unacceptable that Northern have been allowed to not introduce new Sunday services that are in the franchise agreement. Its not about rolling stock or paths, its just them not wanting to run services that will lose money.

Same with the Stoke line, promised hourly on Sunday years ago, looking good for May though (I hope!)

 

[notlob.divad]

I can tolerate most delays but its unacceptable that Northern have been allowed to not introduce new Sunday services that are in the franchise agreement. Its not about rolling stock or paths, its just them not wanting to run services that will lose money.

They have been struggling to get drivers to run the existing sunday service. Even if they added them to the timetable, the chances of them actually running are slim to none

 

[Chester1]

They have been struggling to get drivers to run the existing sunday service. Even if they added them to the timetable, the chances of them actually running are slim to none

Again we are back to the issue to 7 day working. It should be compulsory for all new franchise agreements to only recruit new staff on 7 day contracts and to offer deals for existing staff to buy them out of their contracts. There is no point in accepting franchise bids that include extra Sunday services if they are dependent on large amounts of overtime. If the unions choose to pick a fight it won't go well for them.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Again we are back to the issue to 7 day working. It should be compulsory for all new franchise agreements to only recruit new staff on 7 day contracts and to offer deals for existing staff to buy them out of their contracts. There is no point in accepting franchise bids that include extra Sunday services if they are dependent on large amounts of overtime. If the unions choose to pick a fight it won't go well for them.

As discussed in numerous other threads over the years, I think you'll find that both main unions would be quite happy with Sundays inside the working week - it generally works out better for the staff involved to be fair. The companies generally don't like Sundays inside as, whichever way it is achieved, it costs them more money.

 

[Camden]

Both sides of that are conjecture. It is possible that this is simply a problem that no company dare touch, for fear of opening up an opportunity for a dispute.

Likewise it's possible that a union might like for the conversation to be opened simply for that opportunity.

It doesn't make sense to me that employment costs could be materially lower when the same number of services must be run. In fact, the opposite.

 

[agbrs_Jack]

They have been struggling to get drivers to run the existing sunday service. Even if they added them to the timetable, the chances of them actually running are slim to none

I'd rather have a Sunday service that is supposed to run but occasionally doesn't, than one that isn't supposed to but could.

 

[Llama]

Both sides of that are conjecture. It is possible that this is simply a problem that no company dare touch, for fear of opening up an opportunity for a dispute.

Likewise it's possible that a union might like for the conversation to be opened simply for that opportunity.

It doesn't make sense to me that employment costs could be materially lower when the same number of services must be run. In fact, the opposite.

Running services on one day per week which is 'outside' the working week is more cost effective for the TOCs - less annual leave and lower pension/NI contributions for a start if that day's pay is overtime rather than salaried.

 

[YorkshireLad]

Some of the Sheffield-Gainsborough Central services have been added

http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/Y62665/2019-05-20

Going to be a real step down from a class 158 to a pacer for the passengers on the stopping service

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Some of the Sheffield-Gainsborough Central services have been added

http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/Y62665/2019-05-20

Going to be a real step down from a class 158 to a pacer for the passengers on the stopping service

For a few months.

 

[ashworth]

Some of the Sheffield-Gainsborough Central services have been added

http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/Y62665/2019-05-20

Going to be a real step down from a class 158 to a pacer for the passengers on the stopping service

A pacer will be a real step up from a 30 to 45 minute wait on a cold Worksop platform for passengers from the Mansfield area travelling to or from Sheffield. With a wait of only approx 12 minutes for the Robin Hood Line connection Sheffield to Mansfield will be down to just over 1 hour. Hopefully there will also be a similar good connection in the opposite direction instead of the current 45 minute wait.
The only loser will be the fantastic cafe on platform 2 at Worksop where people waiting for connections tend to spend their time during their limited opening times.

 

[Class 170101]

The only loser will be the fantastic cafe on platform 2 at Worksop where people waiting for connections tend to spend their time during their limited opening times.

Might just have to serve a bit faster :P

 

[Glenn1969]

I hope Bradford and Halifax get an improved service in May but fear we may have to wait until December

Sheffield to Huddersfield has now appeared on RTT but not the reverse. Pacers still op on this line. Backward step that I hope won't last long

 

[scrapy]

The units listed are what the route is timed for. This is generally the slowest traction likely to work the route. It doesn't mean that when units are allocated they will be what is listed. Also this is provisional timings and are likely to be tweaked before being finalised.

 

[Glenn1969]

Some Bradford F Sq to Leeds electrics have appeared on RTT today. Hope it wont be long before the whole timetable does

 

[Jamesrob637]

I can tolerate most delays but its unacceptable that Northern have been allowed to not introduce new Sunday services that are in the franchise agreement. Its not about rolling stock or paths, its just them not wanting to run services that will lose money.

Sundays don't usually require more stock, do they? You maybe just have to strengthen a few trains at times where weekday trains would be shorter if there are events on.

 

[Glenn1969]

It may also be about staffing and overtime requirements?

 

[mm333]

Can a change in a freight path imply a (slight) recast of services on the Airedale line?

I ask as there's currently a freight path going through p2 at Shipley at 0731 heading up from Doncaster to Scotland. But in the new timetable that now passes at 0724. But that would send it straight in front of the 0723 from Shipley-Ilkley. Does that mean there's some times changing, or we just now run the risk of the 0723 being delayed regularly?

 

[Bantamzen]

Can a change in a freight path imply a (slight) recast of services on the Airedale line?

I ask as there's currently a freight path going through p2 at Shipley at 0731 heading up from Doncaster to Scotland. But in the new timetable that now passes at 0724. But that would send it straight in front of the 0723 from Shipley-Ilkley. Does that mean there's some times changing, or we just now run the risk of the 0723 being delayed regularly?

Up until a few weeks ago I'd have said that this might be in preparation to splitting out the Aire / Wharfe triangle diagrams to allow for the then planned 6 car 331 formations on the Leeds-Skipton peaks. But with this now in doubt, who knows?

 

[Glenn1969]

How much effect would this path have on a Shipley-Ilkley path that comes from Bradford and then leaves Shipley via the Baildon branch not the main line?

 

[Bantamzen]

How much effect would this path have on a Shipley-Ilkley path that comes from Bradford and then leaves Shipley via the Baildon branch not the main line?

So long as the 07:23 gets away on time towards Baildon it should still get in front of this path, but even getting into Shipley from Bradford half a minute late might mean the freight gets in front & throws the Ilkley bound service back by a few minutes. No great shakes, but at the moment the freight also follows a Leeds-Bradford FS service (2P22 ex 07:12 from Leeds), so this new path puts it just in front which does suggest that a recast was at least planned.