London Terminals - has something changed?

[PeterC]

I was not actually aware you could get to any tube line from any set of gates. Is that right? I was certain that it was one set of gates serving the Piccadilly/Northern/Victoria lines and two sets serving Metropolitan/Circle/Hammersmith & City lines.

As part of the rebuilding the sub surface and tube stations were connected behind the barriers.

 

[Haywain]

I was not actually aware you could get to any tube line from any set of gates. Is that right? I was certain that it was one set of gates serving the Piccadilly/Northern/Victoria lines and two sets serving Metropolitan/Circle/Hammersmith & City lines.

From the 'outside' it actually looks the opposite with two gatelines serving the deep tube lines and one serving the sub-surface lines.

As part of the rebuilding the sub surface and tube stations were connected behind the barriers.

They had been connected behind the barrier lines for a very long time before the rebuilding.

 

[Hadders]

I was not actually aware you could get to any tube line from any set of gates. Is that right? I was certain that it was one set of gates serving the Piccadilly/Northern/Victoria lines and two sets serving Metropolitan/Circle/Hammersmith & City lines.

You've fallen for the signage that sends you via the 'tourist route'.

 

[OwenB]

You've fallen for the signage that sends you via the 'tourist route'.

To be honest, I only ever take the Northern line. Interesting to know though!

 

[greyman42]

I was not actually aware you could get to any tube line from any set of gates. Is that right? I was certain that it was one set of gates serving the Piccadilly/Northern/Victoria lines and two sets serving Metropolitan/Circle/Hammersmith & City lines.

It is the other way around. 1 set of gates serving Metropolitan etc, 2 sets of gates serving Piccadilly etc. You cannot get from Metropolitan to Piccadilly without passing through a set of gates.

 

[Hadders]

It is the other way around. 1 set of gates serving Metropolitan etc, 2 sets of gates serving Piccadilly etc. You cannot get from Metropolitan to Piccadilly without passing through a set of gates.

You most certainly can get from the Met to the Piccadilly without passing through a set of gates. In fact once through any set of gates you can get to any line.

 

[westv]

You most certainly can get from the Met to the Piccadilly without passing through a set of gates. In fact once through any set of gates you can get to any line.

Unless the infamous one way system is in operation!

 

[causton]

It is the other way around. 1 set of gates serving Metropolitan etc, 2 sets of gates serving Piccadilly etc. You cannot get from Metropolitan to Piccadilly without passing through a set of gates.

Enter a crudely drawn map:

 

[Hadders]

Good map. It really does demonstrate how long the 'tourist route' to the Victoria Line is, especially when you consider the signs for the Victoria, Piccadilly and Northern Lines adjacent to the Tube Ticket Hall direct you to the Northern Ticket Hall.

 

[talldave]

IIRC there's one point in the subterranean tourist attraction where the Victoria line is signed in both directions!

 

[greyman42]

The Kings X to Moorgate/Old Street easement for tickets issue on the ECML to London terminals has been in place for many years.

I travelled from York to Kings Cross on the 12/08/20 with a super off peak return.(London terminals) I travelled onto Moorgate via the Circle line and was stopped at the barriers at Moorgate and told that tickets are no longer valid beyond the station that you first arrive at (Kings Cross). Have they changed the route validity?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I travelled from York to Kings Cross on the 12/08/20 with a super off peak return.(London terminals) I travelled onto Moorgate via the Circle line and was stopped at the barriers at Moorgate and told that tickets are no longer valid beyond the station that you first arrive at (Kings Cross). Have they changed the route validity?

I thought that was only for a transitional period after closure of the branch but might be wrong.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I thought that was only for a transitional period after closure of the branch but might be wrong.

That was for Farringdon and Barbican. Interavailability still applies between King's Cross St. Pancras and Moorgate via the subsurface lines or Northern Line (and to/from Old Street in the latter case).

 

[MikeWh]

I travelled from York to Kings Cross on the 12/08/20 with a super off peak return.(London terminals) I travelled onto Moorgate via the Circle line and was stopped at the barriers at Moorgate and told that tickets are no longer valid beyond the station that you first arrive at (Kings Cross). Have they changed the route validity?

Not as far as I know. When they changed the gates at KXSP to reject London Terminals tickets, they acknowledged that people would need to be let through if they confirmed they intended to go to Moorgate.

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought that was only for a transitional period after closure of the branch but might be wrong.

There was a defined transitional period for flows from the MML that had previously been able to travel on Thameslink services through Farringdon into Moorgate. That was done as part of that latter route section’s closure procedure.

It wasn’t supposed to affect the ongoing validity from stations on the GN and ECML, ie coming via Finsbury Park.

 

[westv]

I travelled from York to Kings Cross on the 12/08/20 with a super off peak return.(London terminals) I travelled onto Moorgate via the Circle line and was stopped at the barriers at Moorgate and told that tickets are no longer valid beyond the station that you first arrive at (Kings Cross). Have they changed the route validity?

This is the problem with "hidden" easements although Hull Train's website specifically mention it if you select a relevant ticket.

 

[Hadders]

It most definitely is still valid. We had a huge thread on it last year.

Unsurprisingly the staff are wrong. This inter-available route goes back to at least 1976.

 

[swt_passenger]

It most definitely is still valid. We had a huge thread on it last year.

Unsurprisingly the staff are wrong. This inter-available route goes back to at least 1976.

I actually think it’s this thread, noting when it first started... @greyman42 just reactivated it.

 

[Hadders]

I actually think it’s this thread, noting when it first started... @greyman42 just reactivated it.

Ah yes, so it is

 

[Mag_seven]

It most definitely is still valid. We had a huge thread on it last year.

Unsurprisingly the staff are wrong. This inter-available route goes back to at least 1976.

The fact that such tickets have been inter-available since 1979 and staff are still getting it wrong is nothing short of a disgrace. The industry really needs to get this sorted out. Its not that difficult - just plaster the words "tickets marked London Terminals are valid to Moorgate" (or something similar) all over Moorgate mess room walls!

 

[Ianno87]

The fact that such tickets have been inter-available since 1979 and staff are still getting it wrong is nothing short of a disgrace. The industry really needs to get this sorted out. Its not that difficult - just plaster the words "tickets marked London Terminals from are valid to Moorgate" (or something similar) all over Moorgate mess room walls!

Not too long ago, I had LU barrier staff at Kimgs Cross tell me a ticket with a Cross London Maltese cross was not valid and to "Make sure you buy a Travelcard next time".

To say it boiled my piss would be an understatement.

 

[Haywain]

"tickets marked London Terminals from are valid to Moorgate"

Except, of course, that isn't generally true - only a relatively small subset of London Terminals tickets are valid at Moorgate, even if Moorgate is a London Terminals station in its own right.

 

[jon0844]

The fact that such tickets have been inter-available since 1979 and staff are still getting it wrong is nothing short of a disgrace. The industry really needs to get this sorted out. Its not that difficult - just plaster the words "tickets marked London Terminals from are valid to Moorgate" (or something similar) all over Moorgate mess room walls!

Even better, plaster it all over the ticket halls like that scene from The Shining!

 

[westv]

Except, of course, that isn't generally true - only a relatively small subset of London Terminals tickets are valid at Moorgate, even if Moorgate is a London Terminals station in its own right.

This thread is about tickets into Kings X so it isn't really a small subset is it?

 

[clagmonster]

I travelled from York to Kings Cross on the 12/08/20 with a super off peak return.(London terminals) I travelled onto Moorgate via the Circle line and was stopped at the barriers at Moorgate and told that tickets are no longer valid beyond the station that you first arrive at (Kings Cross). Have they changed the route validity?

Interesting that it has happened at Moorgate. How do they know that you haven't arrived on a Great Northern & City service anyway? Although I suppose on the station assistant's logic that wouldn't be valid beyond Old Street. I really am surprised that the barriers at Moorgate don't accept all London Terminals tickets.

 

[westv]

I travelled from York to Kings Cross on the 12/08/20 with a super off peak return.(London terminals) I travelled onto Moorgate via the Circle line and was stopped at the barriers at Moorgate and told that tickets are no longer valid beyond the station that you first arrive at (Kings Cross). Have they changed the route validity?

There is a non barriered exit at Moorgate.

 

[greyman42]

There is a non barriered exit at Moorgate.

Do you know which one?

 

[mmh]

The notion that London Termi

There is a non barriered exit at Moorgate.

Even where there isn't a non barriers exit, it's not unusual to see an individual barrier left open and used for manual checks. It happens all the time at the busier NR interchanges like Euston.

 

[Haywain]

This thread is about tickets into Kings X so it isn't really a small subset is it?

Of all London Terminals tickets it is a small subset. There are vastly more that are not valid at Moorgate than those that are.

 

[Mag_seven]

Of all London Terminals tickets it is a small subset. There are vastly more that are not valid at Moorgate than those that are.

That might be the case but it doesn't excuse staff refusing to acknowledge that there is inter-availability for some tickets even if that is just a "small subset".