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Scotrail New and Refurbished Stock update

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Looks like the interior refurbishment work for the subsequent Class 320/3 units will have to be done somewhere else I suppose.
 

ScottDarg

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320420 was sat outside Shields depot yesterday afternoon so another one of the future 320/4s has arrived

Thanks for confirming - looks to have been released on 07/12/2018 but not yet in service.

That should bring the number converted and released from Kilmarnock up to 3. Just 2 more to go - 403 and 418.
 
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Altnabreac

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Scotrail have announced they are retaining a further 4 156s beyond the Franchise Agreement
http://www.barrheadnews.com/news/17...-ticket-for-barrheads-fed-up-rail-passengers/

I thought I'd try and work out how much stock Scotrail currently has compared to Franchise Agreement plans:
156
48 x 2 car at Franchise start
Due to have 38 x 2 car in early 2019
Actually have 43 x 2 car (extra 4 from today's announcement plus 156478 leased from Brodies)

158
48 x 2 car at Franchise start
Due to have 40 x 2 car in early 2019
Actually have 40 x 2 car

170
55 x 3 car at Franchise start
Due to have 21 x 3 car in early 2019
Actually have 39 x 3 car in early 2019 - 5 extra sub leased from Southern, 4 x 170/3s and 9 extra 170/4s retained from Porterbrook. The 13 extra were announced in 2016 as being retained for the entire franchise. The 5 sub leased are less clear in the medium term.
http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2016/scotrail-rail-revolution/

HST
None at Franchise start
Due to have 14 x 4 car and 13 x 5 car in early 2019
Actually have 11 x 4 car (1 refurbished) and another 2 training sets

314
16 x 3 car at Franchise start
Due to have 3 x 3 car in early 2019
Actually have 12 x 3 car in early 2019, 3 stored available and 1 scrapped.

318
21 x 3 car at Franchise start
Due to have 21 x 3 car in early 2019
Actually have 21 x 3 car in early 2019

320
22 x 3 car at Franchise start
Due to have 29 x 3 car in early 2019 (although the Franchise agreement refers to 320/4s as 321s)
Actually have 32 x 3 car in early 2019 (with 2 more 320/4s due from Wabtec shortly)

334
40 x 3 car at Franchise start
Due to have 40 x 3 car in early 2019
Actually have 40 x 3 car in early 2019

380
22 x 3 car and 16 x 4 car at Franchise start
Due to have 22 x 3 car and 16 x 4 car in early 2019
Actually have 22 x 3 car and 16 x 4 car in early 2019

365
none at franchise start
none due in Early 2019
Actually have 10 x 4 car in early 2019

385
none at Franchise start
Due to have 33 x 3 car and 24 x 4 car in early 2019 (this interested me as I didn't realise it was always planned for final 13 x 3 car units to enter service in 2019)
Actually have 16 x 3 car and 18 x 4 car in early 2019

Loco Hauled Coaching stock
2 x 6 at franchise start
Due 2019 is unclear but I suspect Franchise would have planned to withdraw them by now
Actually have 2 x 6 in early 2019

So our total by traction type is:
Diesel
Franchise start - 369 coaches
Planned early 2019 - 340 coaches
Actual 2019 - 339 coaches
Possible 2020 stock? - 404 coaches

Electric
Franchise start - 427 coaches
Planned early 2019 - 604 coaches
Actual 2019 - 605 coaches
Possible 2020 stock? - 649 coaches

So you can see that the amount of stock is actually pretty much as planned in the Franchise Agreement but has just had to be different to that planned due to the 385 and HST delays.

To guess what the stock situation might be in about 12-18 months time I've assumed:
2 x 3 car 320s from Wabtec
385s fully delivered
HSTs fully delivered
365s off lease
LHCS removed
314s off lease

That gives a net increase of 65 diesel coaches and 44 electric coaches from the current situation.
 

Southsider

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Scotrail have announced they are retaining a further 4 156s beyond the Franchise Agreement
http://www.barrheadnews.com/news/17...-ticket-for-barrheads-fed-up-rail-passengers/

I thought I'd try and work out how much stock Scotrail currently has compared to Franchise Agreement plans:
156
48 x 2 car at Franchise start
Due to have 38 x 2 car in early 2019
Actually have 43 x 2 car (extra 4 from today's announcement plus 156478 leased from Brodies)

158
48 x 2 car at Franchise start
Due to have 40 x 2 car in early 2019
Actually have 40 x 2 car

170
55 x 3 car at Franchise start
Due to have 21 x 3 car in early 2019
Actually have 39 x 3 car in early 2019 - 5 extra sub leased from Southern, 4 x 170/3s and 9 extra 170/4s retained from Porterbrook. The 13 extra were announced in 2016 as being retained for the entire franchise. The 5 sub leased are less clear in the medium term.
http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2016/scotrail-rail-revolution/

HST
None at Franchise start
Due to have 14 x 4 car and 13 x 5 car in early 2019
Actually have 11 x 4 car (1 refurbished) and another 2 training sets

314
16 x 3 car at Franchise start
Due to have 3 x 3 car in early 2019
Actually have 12 x 3 car in early 2019, 3 stored available and 1 scrapped.

318
21 x 3 car at Franchise start
Due to have 21 x 3 car in early 2019
Actually have 21 x 3 car in early 2019

320
22 x 3 car at Franchise start
Due to have 29 x 3 car in early 2019 (although the Franchise agreement refers to 320/4s as 321s)
Actually have 32 x 3 car in early 2019 (with 2 more 320/4s due from Wabtec shortly)

334
40 x 3 car at Franchise start
Due to have 40 x 3 car in early 2019
Actually have 40 x 3 car in early 2019

380
22 x 3 car and 16 x 4 car at Franchise start
Due to have 22 x 3 car and 16 x 4 car in early 2019
Actually have 22 x 3 car and 16 x 4 car in early 2019

365
none at franchise start
none due in Early 2019
Actually have 10 x 4 car in early 2019

385
none at Franchise start
Due to have 33 x 3 car and 24 x 4 car in early 2019 (this interested me as I didn't realise it was always planned for final 13 x 3 car units to enter service in 2019)
Actually have 16 x 3 car and 18 x 4 car in early 2019

Loco Hauled Coaching stock
2 x 6 at franchise start
Due 2019 is unclear but I suspect Franchise would have planned to withdraw them by now
Actually have 2 x 6 in early 2019

So our total by traction type is:
Diesel
Franchise start - 369 coaches
Planned early 2019 - 340 coaches
Actual 2019 - 339 coaches
Possible 2020 stock? - 404 coaches

Electric
Franchise start - 427 coaches
Planned early 2019 - 604 coaches
Actual 2019 - 605 coaches
Possible 2020 stock? - 649 coaches

So you can see that the amount of stock is actually pretty much as planned in the Franchise Agreement but has just had to be different to that planned due to the 385 and HST delays.

To guess what the stock situation might be in about 12-18 months time I've assumed:
2 x 3 car 320s from Wabtec
385s fully delivered
HSTs fully delivered
365s off lease
LHCS removed
314s off lease

That gives a net increase of 65 diesel coaches and 44 electric coaches from the current situation.
Thanks you for the update. Does this infer that no more electrification is anticipated between now and the franchise end or are the numbers fluid? The above announcement and recent statements in parliament hint at further improvements without specifying them, I wonder if we are being prepared for disappointment.
 

mcmad

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Interesting....

Would be very interested to know out of the 11 HST's shown how many are actually in use daily.
 

Altnabreac

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Thanks you for the update. Does this infer that no more electrification is anticipated between now and the franchise end or are the numbers fluid? The above announcement and recent statements in parliament hint at further improvements without specifying them, I wonder if we are being prepared for disappointment.

I think what they show is that at the point the Franchise was signed there were no more electrification announcements confirmed therefore stock was not included in the Franchise agreement. There are an extra 10 x 3 car 385s from 2023 onwards if the 10 year franchise options is taken up by both sides (doubtful I'd think at this stage).

However looking at the fact that the stock plan from the Franchise Agreement has had multiple temporary stock variations and at least 2 full franchise stock additions (the 16 x 3 170s and the 4 x 2 156s) it seems equally clear that if electrification did take place it should be easy to vary the rolling stock plan to add more EMUs and remove some DMUs.
 

youngac

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Messages
326
Today I noticed 320320 no longer has covers obstructing the use of plug sockets onboard. This is the first time I've seen plug sockets available for use on 318s/320s in well over a year.
 

47271

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Messages
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Have all of the awful old Haymarket 'collapsed seat' 158s been refurbed now, I haven't been on one for months?
 

Mingulay

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Messages
463
Have all of the awful old Haymarket 'collapsed seat' 158s been refurbed now, I haven't been on one for months?

Think you are right. Not been on one for a while. Grim as they were , at least the legroom was a bit more generous given the thinness of the seat cushion. The refurbished ones have the legroom of the rear seat of a Fiat 500 ! Awfull trains to spend any time in. Deep vein thrombosis curtesy of Abellio Scotrail
 

ScottDarg

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Location
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156476 left Glasgow Works on the night of 29/01/2019 following refurbishment. 156450 took it's place.

156474 also in the works at the moment but shouldn't be too far off coming out.

Just 2 active 156s in the Barbie livery now (excluding those that went to Northern) - 156453 and 456.

Vid of the moves for those interested (not mine):
 

47271

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Messages
2,983
I'm posting this here because it seems to be the most appropriate thread.

The piece appeared in Scotland on Sunday at the weekend. Ok, it's Dalton so there could be all sorts of things behind it, not least a lack of fact checking, but SATA appears to be a legitimate organisation.

That said, it seems odd to resign over a the refurbishment of a single train type. I've never been on a Scotrail refurbed 156 - are they really as deficient for disabled passengers as is being made out? I know about the ironing board seats and that space around tables is limited, but what about the rest?

Disabled passengers champion quits in protest at ScotRail trains

https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...quits-in-protest-at-scotrail-trains-1-4878191

The head of a disabled passengers campaign group has quit in protest at ScotRail’s “highly inappropriate” overhaul of its trains on the scenic West Highland Line. Scottish Accessible Transport Alliance (SATA) chair Arthur Cowie has resigned because he claimed the upgrade had made the accessibility of the carriages “even worse”. He said the changes had been “the straw that finally broke the camel’s back” after decades of trying to win improvements for disabled travellers. Cowie said the refurbishment had made it more difficult for passengers with mobility problems to board, manoeuvre their wheelchairs and use toilets on the Glasgow to Oban and Mallaig route. It is ScotRail’s longest route, with journeys taking up to five-and-a-half hours. The trains also operate on lines around Glasgow and to Dumfries and Stranraer.

Cowie told Scotland on Sunday: “The old rolling stock was not accessible before the refurbishment. Somehow they have taken a very poor accessibility situation and made it even worse, which I never imagined possible.” ScotRail insisted the overhaul of the class 156 trains would “improve the on-train experience”. However, Cowie said: “Heaven help the travelling public if they think this refurbishment will do that. “These refurbished units are a major step backwards and have adversely affected travelling conditions, making these carriages almost inaccessible to elderly and disabled passengers.” Cowie said buttons to open doors were one third their previous size, posing problems for people with sight or arm problems. He welcomed the addition of a second wheelchair space, but said in only one of them could the passenger face a travelling companion, and manoeuvring space was constricted by other seats. Cowie said moving the toilet bowl made it difficult for wheelchair passengers, and the toilet door operating instructions were too small for the visually impaired. He described new seating as “very uncomfortable” for elderly passengers and those with back problems and arthritis. Cowie said space between seats and tables had also been reduced, causing problems for larger passengers.

He said ScotRail’s boast to be creating “the best railway Scotland has ever had” had “proved to be totally false with the introduction of these highly inappropriate refurbished carriages”. Cowie said of his decision to step down: “Recent actions by ScotRail and [Scottish Government agency] Transport Scotland have made me realise I have been wasting my time over the last 40 years in trying to achieve accessible travel, and have been played for a fool by the transport authorities over this period.” SATA acting chair Terry Barlow said: “I fully agree with everything Arthur says.” A ScotRail spokesman said: “These trains are fully compliant with accessibility legislation, are more suited to scenic routes with the seats aligned to windows, and have increased toilet and luggage space.” The train operator added that “accessibility was one of the main driving factors for the refurbishment of the fleet, and improving accessibility was at the forefront of the design specifications”. It said the seats were now closer together to create more space to allow wheelchair access to the new accessible toilets and to create space for two wheelchair areas. A Transport Scotland spokesman said: “Transport accessibility is a key priority and we take stakeholder feedback into account when making improvements while also remaining compliant with the relevant legislation and standards. This fleet of trains has been refurbished to a high specification and will bring benefits to a wide range of users.”
 

scotraildriver

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For a start the toilet bowl is the standard UAT type used in every time of train. And the door close buttons are not one third of the size, they haven't even been changed. There is much more space around the new toilet to manoeuvre a wheelchair so not quite sure about this article.
 

JumpinTrainz

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Normally around every 10 years trains start their refurbishment programme is there any plans for the 380s to be refurbished? Normally by this point trains are screaming out for a tidy up but the 380s are in pretty good nick I would say.

Also I may be going crazy but did I really see a 380 on the A-B line today? I’m sure my eyes must have been playing tricks but it looked awfully like a 3 car 380 around about Bathgate at about 2ish
 

Highlandspring

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Also I may be going crazy but did I really see a 380 on the A-B line today? I’m sure my eyes must have been playing tricks but it looked awfully like a 3 car 380 around about Bathgate at about 2ish
Just had a look and it seems your eyes were indeed playing tricks.
 

GrimShady

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I'm posting this here because it seems to be the most appropriate thread.

The piece appeared in Scotland on Sunday at the weekend. Ok, it's Dalton so there could be all sorts of things behind it, not least a lack of fact checking, but SATA appears to be a legitimate organisation.

That said, it seems odd to resign over a the refurbishment of a single train type. I've never been on a Scotrail refurbed 156 - are they really as deficient for disabled passengers as is being made out? I know about the ironing board seats and that space around tables is limited, but what about the rest?



https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...quits-in-protest-at-scotrail-trains-1-4878191

They are definitely worse with regards to seats. Congrats ScotRail, you've managed to make a bad experience worse!
 
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Bletchleyite

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They are definitely worse with regards to seats. Gongrats ScotRail, you've managed to make a bad experience worse!

Matter of opinion there. Personally I like the seats, particularly when they have the ScotRail contoured base. Anyone who has used them on a train in the South East really needs to try this type before assuming they are the same - the change is very small, but the difference it makes is huge. Not dissimilar to the way Class 800 seats would be totally acceptable to me were a very small change made to the headrest contour and a bit of ply placed under the cushion to stop you feeling the support bar. (Doing both of those things would near enough give you a Desiro seat, which is one of my UK favourites).
 

GrimShady

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Matter of opinion there. Personally I like the seats, particularly when they have the ScotRail contoured base. Anyone who has used them on a train in the South East really needs to try this type before assuming they are the same - the change is very small, but the difference it makes is huge. Not dissimilar to the way Class 800 seats would be totally acceptable to me were a very small change made to the headrest contour and a bit of ply placed under the cushion to stop you feeling the support bar. (Doing both of those things would near enough give you a Desiro seat, which is one of my UK favourites).

IMO they are not suitable on an arse numbing experience all the way from Oban.

Northerns 155s have superior seats.
 

43096

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320418 was released from Kilmarnock to Shields Depot last Tuesday (16th). This is the final conversion from 321 to 320 of the current batch of five.
 

59CosG95

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With regards the 156s' refurbishment, I currently have the following units listed as "Fully refurbished with ironing boards":
  • 430-437
  • 439
  • 442
  • 446
  • 450
  • 457
  • 458
  • 474
  • 476-478
  • 492-495
  • 504
  • 510.
I have the following as "Repainted and new toilet fitted but unrefurbished with Ashbourne seats":
  • 462
  • 467
  • 501-503
  • 505-509
  • 511-514.
I have the following as "Repainted, but not PRM compliant"
  • 445
  • 499
  • 500.
And finally, I have the following as "Unrepainted, and certainly none of the other things":
  • 453
  • 456.
Have I got the list relatively accurate?
 

JModulo

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With regards the 156s' refurbishment, I currently have the following units listed as "Fully refurbished with ironing boards":
  • 430-437
  • 439
  • 442
  • 446
  • 450
  • 457
  • 458
  • 474
  • 476-478
  • 492-495
  • 504
  • 510.
I have the following as "Repainted and new toilet fitted but unrefurbished with Ashbourne seats":
  • 462
  • 467
  • 501-503
  • 505-509
  • 511-514.
I have the following as "Repainted, but not PRM compliant"
  • 445
  • 499
  • 500.
And finally, I have the following as "Unrepainted, and certainly none of the other things":
  • 453
  • 456.
Have I got the list relatively accurate?

432 still retains the old seats as does 478 (owned by Brodie, Kilmarnock), and do not have the new ones. 445, 499, 500, 453, 456 are all now fully refurbished and prm compliant. All Scotrail sets are now refurbished with the only exception that some retain Ashbournes.
 

Altnabreac

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So as I understand it the 156 and 320 refurbishments are now totally complete, 385s are down to the last 5 to be delivered and all the relivery / refurb work is complete on 158 / 170 / 318 and 334s.

So as I understand it the only stock Scotrail currently have in works are the 153s, the HSTs and the last 5 385s.

Beginning to look a bit more like their stable long term fleet will all be available before too long.
 
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