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West Lothian buses

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In Focus

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Finally as an driver I see improved growth week on week .for the record im.no fan boy just someone in a position to dispel a few statements
You may indeed be correct about numbers and this cold weather any vehicles with decent heating will be an advantage ,however any extra income LCB are making is most definetly being washed away with the level of service after 7pm when you rarely see a service with more than 3/5 people on board most with no one,I would imagine this is something they will look at going forward,as stated before West Lothian is no Edinburgh when it comes to nightlife and they have certainly over done the levels of vehicles after 7pm,which must be costing a small fortune.
 
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TheEastCoaster

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You may indeed be correct about numbers and this cold weather any vehicles with decent heating will be an advantage ,however any extra income LCB are making is most definetly being washed away with the level of service after 7pm when you rarely see a service with more than 3/5 people on board most with no one,I would imagine this is something they will look at going forward,as stated before West Lothian is no Edinburgh when it comes to nightlife and they have certainly over done the levels of vehicles after 7pm,which must be costing a small fortune.

I think numbers have been going up to a degree, I was on an X18 yesterday afternoon from Corstorphine to the city centre and thinking it’s the rugby the bus would be hooching, the most I saw is 10 people on board, which was of course the busiest I’ve ever seen this service ever
 

overthewater

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Why is the council still paying Bluebus for no20 since it runs on top of X18 IE breaking rules.
 

In Focus

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Why is the council still paying Bluebus for no20 since it runs on top of X18 IE breaking rules.
I'd imagine the contract is still in place as with EM horsburgh operating to Wester Inch and whoever does the tendered journey to Livi South Railway all of which now have commercial services that will see no renewal of the tender .
 

overthewater

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The tenders should be done this August and will save the council a lot.. With no1, no5, no11, no20, no28a, no31, all coming off at least surly?
 

Stef434

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First had made losses on it for years when it run out of Linlithgow depot, that was further compounded when it moved to Livingston and all the complications that went with that idiotic idea .
First Midland did make losses at Linthgow
But FSE made inroads in terms of profit albeit the obscure driver payments ,
these were indeed not complicated or idiotic as the driver was rota were ringfenced,and Deans did make a signifanr profit,..
what killed the route was when UNITE/TG wanted this service to be put on the mainline rota
therefore it was not sustainable through schedule adherence to have a another service arriving into
Edinburgh Waterloo Place changing from say a 27/28 a combined 15 frequency changing into a serve 43.
it was costly and not cost productive...
oh and the customer complaints referring to Quality Street/queensferry road congestion made it a poison chalice
 

TheEastCoaster

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Off topic but does anyone know if the Firsts N23 is limited stop? because most of the bus stops between Sighthill and Haymarket don’t have an N23 sticker on it unless the 23/X23 serve the stop too? not sure why they would make it limited stop, even LCB made the N28 serve all the stops between Fountainpark and Sighthill
 

Darklord8899

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Off topic but does anyone know if the Firsts N23 is limited stop? because most of the bus stops between Sighthill and Haymarket don’t have an N23 sticker on it unless the 23/X23 serve the stop too? not sure why they would make it limited stop, even LCB made the N28 serve all the stops between Fountainpark and Sighthill

......when the 27/28 changed to the 23 and it was still the N2 some bus stops on the section you mentioned only displayed N2 (ie no mention of the 23 serving them either) not sure if that was a mistake or not, but certainly made it look like 23 was Limited Stop as well....
 

In Focus

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First Midland did make losses at Linthgow
But FSE made inroads in terms of profit albeit the obscure driver payments ,
these were indeed not complicated or idiotic as the driver was rota were ringfenced,and Deans did make a signifanr profit,..
what killed the route was when UNITE/TG wanted this service to be put on the mainline rota
therefore it was not sustainable through schedule adherence to have a another service arriving into
Edinburgh Waterloo Place changing from say a 27/28 a combined 15 frequency changing into a serve 43.
it was costly and not cost productive...
oh and the customer complaints referring to Quality Street/queensferry road congestion made it a poison chalice
We ran the 43 from Bathgate for years and it was aligned to other service either a 16 /18 and it worked well ,when it moved from Linlithgow to Livingston the shuttle time back and forward was a massive issue cost wise .
 

In Focus

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Off topic but does anyone know if the Firsts N23 is limited stop? because most of the bus stops between Sighthill and Haymarket don’t have an N23 sticker on it unless the 23/X23 serve the stop too? not sure why they would make it limited stop, even LCB made the N28 serve all the stops between Fountainpark and Sighthill
It is a limited stopping pattern
Leith st (omni centre),Normal stops to Haymarket then Dalry primary (opp),Gorgie city farm ,Stewart Terrace ,Balgreen Road (opp and East off),Chester house (opp),Saughton Prison , then all stops after that .
 

Driver362

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Did Westfield not have a shot of it ? I drove it out of linlithgow ,I'm pretty sure we got 1\2he each way paid in the van ,some dutys were only 3 round trips .it was normally 2 up for break back down an in and out and done if you were lucky enough to get one like that ! Iirc,traffic @bullion rd caused a lot of headaches/lost mileage ,normally due to an incident in the bridge or M90​
 
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Darklord8899

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It is a limited stopping pattern
Leith st (omni centre),Normal stops to Haymarket then Dalry primary (opp),Gorgie city farm ,Stewart Terrace ,Balgreen Road (opp and East off),Chester house (opp),Saughton Prison , then all stops after that .

Probably to discourage pissed city passengers using it :lol::p
 
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Did Westfield not have a shot of it ? I drove it out of linlithgow ,I'm pretty sure we got 1\2he each way paid in the van ,some dutys were only 3 round trips .it was normally 2 up for break back down an in and out and done if you were lucky enough to get one like that ! Iirc,traffic @bullion rd caused a lot of headaches/lost mileage ,normally due to an incident in the bridge or M90​
Yes, it ran from Westfield about 20 years ago. This was probably more sensible than any other depot the service has used, except maybe Central. There was a spell when the 88 (Queensferry - Polton Mill via North Bridge) ran jointly between Westfield and Dalkeith. The Westfield vehicles couldn't show Polton Mill on destination blinds, and Dalkeith ones couldn't show Queensferry. With the new bridge in operation Builyeon Road is no longer a regular headache and using reasonable running times Lothian Country should do OK on this route now. It's quite a different environment compared to other LCB proposals.
 

In Focus

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Did Westfield not have a shot of it ? I drove it out of linlithgow ,I'm pretty sure we got 1\2he each way paid in the van ,some dutys were only 3 round trips .it was normally 2 up for break back down an in and out and done if you were lucky enough to get one like that ! Iirc,traffic @bullion rd caused a lot of headaches/lost mileage ,normally due to an incident in the bridge or M90​
Yes Westfield had it for a short time, the can situation was a killed for sure.
 

herb21

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The running time to parts of Queensferry especial Scotstoun estate is dire.
43 is my regular route, I think most commuter get off on station road and walk 5 minutes rather than loop round south queensferry. In the last year since I have started using it has got progressively busier and the timing isn't bad most days.
 

Observer

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Why is the council still paying Bluebus for no20 since it runs on top of X18 IE breaking rules.
Now you mentioned that they are not long to go before retendering anyway, but I would assume that they just don't want to cancel it when a service has already just started and there's a good chance that LCB will end up changing things about soon after. But it will be interesting to see what gets kept by the council and what doesn't, certain operators will be hurting if they get dropped for sure.
 

In Focus

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Now you mentioned that they are not long to go before retendering anyway, but I would assume that they just don't want to cancel it when a service has already just started and there's a good chance that LCB will end up changing things about soon after. But it will be interesting to see what gets kept by the council and what doesn't, certain operators will be hurting if they get dropped for sure.
Speaking of councils and spending noticed a campaign where Edinburgh City council has "endured 250 million OF budget cuts in last 5 year's ,will face at least 41 million of cuts in coming financial year and a predicted 106 million in the following 3 years " which has lead to amongst other things a nightmare scenario in Edinburgh schools, makes you wonder why then with these types of figures someone has Decided it's a wise move to absolutely spunk millions up on millions of tax payers money on a bus service in an area where ample services already ran and has next to no chance of being a profitable operation.
Makes you wonder if the money being spent could indeed have been used more wisely as it would seem where WL council might benefit from a few million on tenders ,Edinburgh Council is going to be paying the price and possibly denying other more vital services of much needed tax payers money.
 

oldman

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It isn't Edinburgh council tax payers who are funding LCB - it's profits from the rest of the business and against the scale of cuts coming from Holyrood, a few million is not going to make a lot of difference.
 

In Focus

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It isn't Edinburgh council tax payers who are funding LCB - it's profits from the rest of the business and against the scale of cuts coming from Holyrood, a few million is not going to make a lot of difference.
Should be an interesting time then when Lothian drivers go for pay negotiations to discover their profits are being used to fund this venture and management will undoubtedly use the cost of this to try and reduce or delay any pay increase!!
Although I am pretty sure LCB as part of Lothian transport is a publically funded operation .
 

herb21

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Pretty sure its publicly owned, but arms length and only publicly funded in the same way as other comercial operators.
 

Gingerbus1991

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Pretty sure its publicly owned, but arms length and only publicly funded in the same way as other comercial operators.
I'm near certain that infrastructure investments from Edinburgh City Council vastly supports lothian buses, from bus stop information and the likely hood that lothian seem to gather much work from thrid parties, such as operating the x98 special service from queensferry including the likes of private hire contract from school, colleges etc around Edinburgh.

Nothing stops Edinburgh Council making shareholder investments towards Lothian Buses either.
 
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I'm near certain that infrastructure investments from Edinburgh City Council vastly supports lothian buses, from bus stop information and the likely hood that lothian seem to gather much work from thrid parties, such as operating the x98 special service from queensferry including the likes of private hire contract from school, colleges etc around Edinburgh.

Nothing stops Edinburgh Council making shareholder investments towards Lothian Buses either.
The X98 really doesn't have anything to do with City of Edinburgh Council. Lothian charge passengers a premium for the service and it seems to have been quite popular. What the council might consider is re-arranging parking around the Hawes Pier to reflect the popularity of this bus, perhaps at the expense of space for taxis or coaches next year. The council would not offer bus companies money to subsidise services exclusively for the benefit of tourists.

Infrastructure investments by councils are more likely to assist the dominant operators in that council's area - this will help the majority of passengers. There would be something rather suspicious if it worked the other way round.

Lothian can operate successful services around Edinburgh whether private hire or fare-charging because that's where they have the vehicles, depots, drivers and reputation. Not because of a cosy relationship with the council.
 

Gingerbus1991

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The X98 really doesn't have anything to do with City of Edinburgh Council. Lothian charge passengers a premium for the service and it seems to have been quite popular. What the council might consider is re-arranging parking around the Hawes Pier to reflect the popularity of this bus, perhaps at the expense of space for taxis or coaches next year. The council would not offer bus companies money to subsidise services exclusively for the benefit of tourists.

Infrastructure investments by councils are more likely to assist the dominant operators in that council's area - this will help the majority of passengers. There would be something rather suspicious if it worked the other way round.

Lothian can operate successful services around Edinburgh whether private hire or fare-charging because that's where they have the vehicles, depots, drivers and reputation. Not because of a cosy relationship with the council.

I assume that edin urgh city council will be aware of the transport infrastructure including the buses, taxi and any ferry port within Edinburgh City Councils range, seem strange that its always lothian who get the specials and they usually seem very popular.

I very much doubt that Lothian dont regularly confer with the council
 
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Darklord8899

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As far as I am aware the council have nothing to do with the Ingliston special service X98 or cruiselink X99 or the X90 V festival buses
These are services Lothian choose to run and are not awarded... I've seen or heard nothing that would suggest that the council have anything to do with them.
 

overthewater

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The same lot of people also believe the council pays Lothian to operate 43, which again is utter claptrap.
 
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As far as I am aware the council have nothing to do with the Ingliston special service X98 or cruiselink X99 or the X90 V festival buses
These are services Lothian choose to run and are not awarded... I've seen or heard nothing that would suggest that the council have anything to do with them.

Ah yes, it's X99 for Cruiselink - I got it mixed up with the Ingliston X98. Anyway, it was Cruise Forth that dealt with Lothian when the service was set up, definitely not the council. I understand the guy who ran a similar bus service up until last year was something of a chancer - taking return fares but leaving passengers to make their own way back from the city centre for example. He took great exception to Lothian offering an alternative, or muscling in if you prefer, and inevitably blamed Edinburgh Council. Apparently there were some rather ugly scenes in the early days.

The same lot of people also believe the council pays Lothian to operate 43, which again is utter claptrap.

Very difficult to persuade these people otherwise I'm afraid and local politicians don't help matters either. Many live in Kirkliston, look enviously at the 43 and other nearby Lothian Country routes serving West Lothian, and consider they get a raw deal from the council. Maybe it's also due to the history of Lothian taking on the 43 service, as I don't think they'd originally intended it as part of their longer term commercial Lothian Country venture. Just speculation, but as things have worked out perhaps it will be one of their more profitable services!
 

TheEastCoaster

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Very difficult to persuade these people otherwise I'm afraid and local politicians don't help matters either. Many live in Kirkliston, look enviously at the 43 and other nearby Lothian Country routes serving West Lothian, and consider they get a raw deal from the council. Maybe it's also due to the history of Lothian taking on the 43 service, as I don't think they'd originally intended it as part of their longer term commercial Lothian Country venture. Just speculation, but as things have worked out perhaps it will be one of their more profitable services!

It still baffles me that Lothian Country never considered serving Kirkliston back in August, you know they will eventually but it’s a shame its not sooner, the 43 is a great service though I’m bias and never did try the 40 by stagecoach or the 43 by first for that matter, I don’t know what each of them charged compared to Lothian, but being that Lothian are the only prime operator in Queensferry iy’ll Make it easier to suck in all the passengers, and the city ridacard is a good benefit too! I know Kirkliston still have the 63 but they do deserve another Lothian service
 

overthewater

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Lothian country are backwards and are always late to the party.. again there has been upturn in Queensferry passengers using stagecoach service from the bridge tolls. So the only conclusion is people that used the 40/A have switched to other stagecoach service why Lothian has managed to fill the vacuum and more with new passengers.
 

herb21

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Lothian country are backwards and are always late to the party.. again there has been upturn in Queensferry passengers using stagecoach service from the bridge tolls. So the only conclusion is people that used the 40/A have switched to other stagecoach service why Lothian has managed to fill the vacuum and more with new passengers.
I think depending where you live in South Queensferry can also make a massive difference as to which operator you would prefer. Something I have also noticed is concession users who take a morning peak in with me on the 43 but take whichever evening peak comes first to get home.
 
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