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The problems with using the Eurostar trains.

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Why do Eurostar make it so difficult and inconvenient to use their services! Its like they forget that they are a train company running short two hour train rides and are just trying to run their operations like an airline instead!

These are some of the major problems:

1. Extortionate walk on fares. - The walk on fares that Eurostar charge are ridiculous. If you just turn up at the station just before your train and buy a ticket then it will normally cost around between £150.00 to £200.00 for a Single (or double for a Return as they seem to be priced the same as two Single tickets). This is extortionate. Do they not realise that many people don't plan in advance or are unable to plan in advance. Many people need to just be able to turn up and buy a ticket and board their train.

2. Seat reservations required and no extra standing passengers allowed. - It is ridiculous that they require seat reservations for all passengers and that they only sell the same amount of tickets as seats. This means that as soon as all of the seats are sold they will not let anyone else board even though there is a huge amount of standing room available. This is a big inconvenience during busy times as you may not be able to travel on a certain train despite plenty of standing room being available. The journey is only about two hours long so its no problem standing if necessary (people stand for that long on domestic trains every day). Seat reservations should be optional and they should sell an unlimited amount of tickets for each train.

3. Tickets are only valid for a specific train. - Another problem is that you can't just get a normal "Any Permitted" ticket that will allow you to travel on any train on the day. All tickets are for a specific train. This is another thing to inconvenience passengers.

4. Very messy timetable. - Their timetable is a complete mess and very confusing. Have a look here - https://content-static.eurostar.com...etables Core destination_Issue 82_UK EN_0.pdf - at their current timetable. They have lots of random trains that only run on certain random days or random trains that don't run on certain random days. I don't know why it is so hard for them to have a consistent timetable with the same times every day (or at least the same times for Monday to Fridays and then different times for Saturdays and Sundays).

5. Their trains don't run late enough. - One of their many problems is how early the trains finish. These are currently the times of the last trains of the day:

Northbound - Brussels to London:
• 20:22 Brussels - London 21:33 (Daily)

Northbound - Paris to London:
• 20:13 Paris - London 21:43 (Saturday)
• 21:13 Paris - London 22:39 (Mon to Fri & Sunday)

Southbound - London to Brussels:
• 19:34 London to Brussels 22:38 (Daily)

Southbound - London to Paris:
• 20:01 London to Paris 23:17 (Mon to Fri & Saturday)
• 20:31 London to Paris 23:47 (Sunday)

This is far too early. Surely they could at least have later trains departing both Brussels and Paris just after 23:00 (European Time) which would arrive in London just after 00:00 (British Time). It makes it rather annoying for passengers who have to leave earlier than they would like to (especially those travelling on day trips). It also makes it harder to connect from other trains at Brussels or Paris if travelling longer distances from other places in Mainland Europe. Later trains are really necessary.

6. Having to arrive at the station 30 minutes before your train. - I understand that passport checks are necessary but 30 minutes is way too early. Its just another thing to inconvenience passengers. Personally i would prefer if each train stopped twice in each direction (at Cheriton [UK exit] and Coquelles [FR entry] for Southbound trains and at Coquelles [FR exit] and Cheriton [UK entry] for Northbound trains) to do border control. Although this would mean a longer journey time it would be made up for the fact that you could just arrive at the station a couple of minutes before your train.

7. Security checks. - It is ridiculous that you have to go through security checks to board Eurostar trains. You don't have to for domestic trains so what makes the international trains different. It is nothing but a security theatre. Completely pointless and just something else to annoy and delay passengers.

8. Awful delay repay. - The amount of delay repay that Eurostar give is appalling. You can only claim for a minimum of 60 minutes delay and even then they will only give you 25% refund. This is a joke considering that our domestic train companies will give you 25% refund for just a 15 minute delay and will give you 100% refund for a 60 minute delay.

These are just some of the problems with Eurostar. I am sure there is many more.

Eurostar is so inconvenient to use that i (and probably many other people) always just use the ferry (and slower local trains on both sides) instead. Far simpler and easier than using Eurostar.

What do you think? I am interested to hear others views on this?
 
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306024

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Well since you ask, I use the ferry more than Eurostar. But then Harwich to Hoek Van Holland suits me from this part of the world.

As for Eurostar itself, none of the 8 points mentioned bother me at all. No different to a plane except this one can’t fly.
 
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But it is a train. That is what Eurostar seem to forget. So why make it like a plane? Aren't trains suppose to be easier and simpler than flying? Its like they have tried to incorporate all the features of air travel. This is what i don't like.
 

Starmill

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£150 for walk up single on the 1716 London St P to Brussels M is pretty favourable - I'm not convinced they're really charging so little. LNER would be asking you to pay £160 for a single to Newcastle. Virgin Trains would be asking you to pay £175 for a single to Manchester.

It's also not true that flexible tickets aren't available - they are. They're just more expensive. It's remarkably similar to long-distance rail transport in the UK.

This is a joke considering that our domestic train companies will give you 25% refund for just a 15 minute delay and will give you 100% refund for a 60 minute delay.

It depends on what type of ticket you have, who you were travelling with, and in some cases what caused the delay. None of what you've said is a given. Some British train companies break the law and refuse to pay compensation to holders of certain types of tickets, or claim other exceptions to which they aren't entitled.

Eurostar offer the minimum compensation in line with the relevant EU Directive as adopted by the UK and other countries they serve. There is a proposal for the next one to be much broader in terms of passenger rights, but some people in the UK decided they didn't want to guarantee those rights for the rest of us in the recent plebiscite.

I agree that on the whole their service is quite poor, and could be much improved. But on the whole that's true of railway travel throughout Europe, including the British Isles.
 
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Bletchleyite

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£150 for walk up single on the 1716 London St P to Brussels M is pretty favourable - I'm not convinced they're really charging so little. LNER would be asking you to pay £160 for a single to Newcastle. Virgin Trains would be asking you to pay £175 for a single to Manchester.

It's the lack of walk up off peak type fares that put me off doing random day trips, FWIW. If you could get a walk-up Saturday return guaranteed for about £100 I'd almost certainly have done quite a lot of them. I very often get up on a Saturday morning and decide to go somewhere - the domestic railway gets a fair few quid off me for this, Eurostar get nowt.

As to the timetable, compulsory reservations etc - that's classic Romance-style high speed operation. It's a TGV in basically every way.

As for security, the Government have imposed it because the tunnel is a high profile target. It was aimed at the IRA, but would you sign off removing it?
 

superalbs

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It's the lack of walk up off peak type fares that put me off doing random day trips, FWIW. If you could get a walk-up Saturday return guaranteed for about £100 I'd almost certainly have done quite a lot of them.
That's true, I'd certainly be interested.

There is that old 'Eurostar SNAP' thing, but uhhhhh...
 

306024

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But it is a train. That is what Eurostar seem to forget. So why make it like a plane? Aren't trains suppose to be easier and simpler than flying? Its like they have tried to incorporate all the features of air travel. This is what i don't like.

What’s not simple about flying? Buy ticket, go to airport, get on plane. What have I missed? For sure security is an annoyance for some, but that’s the world we live in. Don’t let it annoy you.
 
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But i believe those UK fares are anytime fares. Those examples in the UK do have cheaper off peak and super off peak fares. Where as on Eurostar they charge these extortionate fares to travel at any time of the day.

At least on the TGV trains you can still board without a ticket or reservation and just buy one onboard (with a surcharge). Still not ideal but it is more convenient than Eurostar.

I am not a fan of the France / Italy / Portugal / Spain style of high speed operations. I think Germany does it a lot better with their ICE trains. They seem to have gotten it right.
 

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But i believe those UK fares are anytime fares. Those examples in the UK do have cheaper off peak and super off peak fares. Where as on Eurostar they charge these extortionate fares to travel at any time of the day.
This is simply moving the goalposts. You didn't say this before.

Realistically both LNER and Eurostar are overpriced operations struggling to offer value for money and hopelessly uncompetitive in the budget end of the market. Are they bothered? Probably not! I doubt they mind if you think they're too expensive and use Ryanair or Flixbus instead.
 
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Well i wouldn't exactly call flying simple. You can't really turn up on the day just before your flight and buy a ticket. You have to plan in advance. You have to arrive at the airport and check in quite a while before your flight departs. Most airports are located far out and often have very expensive rip off transport to get in to the city centre. This is why i am surprised that Eurostar don't make it easier to use their trains (ideally it should be as easy as using our domestic trains) in order to compete with the airlines.
 

Starmill

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We've discussed why they don't run later trains many times before. Crucially it's almost certainly because they're not obliged to by any government, as LNER / Virgin Trains and others are. When you have a train with 1000 seats how do you fill a 2200 departure? With great difficulty if you want to operate profitably.
 

causton

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Well i wouldn't exactly call flying simple. You can't really turn up on the day just before your flight and buy a ticket.

I decided at 12:10 I wanted to fly home to London from Glasgow. I bought a ticket and was on a train to the airport by 12:25 and in the air at 13:40. It was £35. Hardly extortionate!
 

306024

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Try London City Airport. Comparatively cheap to get to, usually wizz through security quite quickly (apart from Friday evenings which are busy). Good choice of destinations in Europe, BA’s 13.15 to Berlin suits me fine.
 

farci

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Eurostar fares reflects the competion-airlines. It’s demand led. As far as passengers are concerned, just as on a trip to Marbella, we evaluate a combination of convenience, comfort and price. It’s simply a competitive transport option. Not a train to be compared with other rail services. Same with Thalys
 

Starmill

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I don't know why it is so hard for them to have a consistent timetable with the same times every day (or at least the same times for Monday to Fridays and then different times for Saturdays and Sundays).
Because levels of demand are not the same on a Tuesday as on a Friday. They could potentially be forced to run a standard pattern timetable but then this would compromise some of their yeild management. A memorable pattern is also inhibited by their availabile train slots through the tunnel.
 

Starmill

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I notice you haven't focused any criticism on the inferior quality of their new rolling stock, which is another favourite here. I found it amazingly mediocre, with totally useless WiFi, cheap interior and poor quality fittings and fixtures. Ride quality was also remarkably poor on LGV Nord but I suspect that has less to do with Eurostar's train.
 

AlexNL

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1. Extortionate walk on fares.
Eurostar have to make a profit (that's what their shareholders want), they've got a 900 seat train to fill, and using the Channel Tunnel is expensive. It is eye-wateringly expensive.

Those "I have to travel now!" tickets help pay for the costs of running the service, the cheap tickets sold 6 months in advance on standard class are mainly there to get bums on seats.
2. Seat reservations required and no extra standing passengers allowed.
That's for safety reasons, mostly. The Channel Tunnel is one of the longest tunnels in the world and has particular needs when it comes to emergency evacuation. Evacuating a train carrying 900 passengers is a challenge on its own, but Eurostar and Eurotunnel have procedures in place to deal with this. If there were 1300 pax on the train, getting all of them out to safety is going to take much longer.
3. Tickets are only valid for a specific train.
This follows out of the previous point. However, all Eurostar tickets are flexible: you can change your train if you wish (for a fee).
4. Very messy timetable.
Once again a consequence of Eurostar being a fully open access operator. They have to make ends meet, and they run a service which is rather different from the usual commuter/franchise stuff. Their services are led by demand.
5. Their trains don't run late enough.
See #4.
6. Having to arrive at the station 30 minutes before your train.
The time is needed for immigration and security checks. While Eurostar say you must be 'checked in' at least 30 minutes prior to departure, in my experience this is more of a recommendation than it is a requirement. If you arrive 20 minutes prior to departure on a quiet day, you're unlikely to be denied boarding.

Doing the immigration checks en route, as you propose, would be a major nuisance to everyone on board. Instead of relaxing, you'd have to go dig out your passport halfway through the journey...

And what would you do if you're on a London -> Paris train, and during the check in Coquelles find out that someone is persona non grata in France? By having all checks done in the departure station, the operator and the passengers can be confident of a smooth onward journey.
7. Security checks.
These are required by Eurotunnel to ensure a safe crossing. The Channel Tunnel is a highly interesting target for bad people. Lorries and cars which use the shuttle trains also undergo extensive security checks, but they are less visible.
8. Awful delay repay
Agree, compared to Delay Repay 15 the compensation scheme set out by Eurostar is rather poor. Eurostar adhere to the minimum set by the European Union's passenger rights directive.
 

30907

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These are some of the major problems:

1. Extortionate walk on fares. - The walk on fares that Eurostar charge are ridiculous. If you just turn up at the station just before your train and buy a ticket then it will normally cost around between £150.00 to £200.00 for a Single (or double for a Return as they seem to be priced the same as two Single tickets). This is extortionate.
What do you think? I am interested to hear others views on this?

It's the lack of walk up off peak type fares that put me off doing random day trips, FWIW. If you could get a walk-up Saturday return guaranteed for about £100 I'd almost certainly have done quite a lot of them. I very often get up on a Saturday morning and decide to go somewhere - the domestic railway gets a fair few quid off me for this, Eurostar get nowt.

User1234 mentioned DB so I did a quick comparison between ES and Brussels-Frankfurt (high-speed line, similar distance and frequency) for a same day return.
ES today £318, Saturday £208 upwards
DB EUR258 (walk-up), Saturday EUR190/210 (the cheaper fare is non-refundable, the other is refundable less an admin fee, and both are Advances with no seat reservation).

So - DB is a good bit cheaper today but not on Saturday.
(Offpeak Returns at single fare are one of the distinctive features of UK ticketing, and I can't think of any European mainland equivalent for inter-city travel).
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Various government regulations mean that Eurostar, like an airline or ferry, has to have an accurate passenger list.
Hence the personalised check-in procedure and no last minute changes.
Thanks to Brexit, you can look forward to registering in advance (with fee) to comply with the "third country" EU rules for passenger information (similar to ESTA for the USA).
Passport checks are likely to be enhanced (currently you just need to show one).
The security rules were defined by the original Eurotunnel intergovernmental agreement, and are unlikely to be relaxed in this new terrorism age.
If you travel on high speed trains in Spain, you and your bags have to go through a scanner, so it's not unique to the UK.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Well i wouldn't exactly call flying simple. You can't really turn up on the day just before your flight and buy a ticket.

You can (subject to enough check-in time). It'll just cost you, the same as it does on Eurostar.

FWIW, Luton to Amsterdam at 13:20 today is going for a more than reasonable 43 quid at the moment.
 

anme

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I think the OP's post is a joke, satirising the usual discussions here about Eurostar.

1. Extortionate walk on fares.

Eurostar is a commercial service and this is how they maximise their revenue, just like an airline. It's not subsidised and regulated like domestic services. If you would like tax payers' money to be used to subsidise Eurostar services, write to your MP. I'll sign the letter too.

2. Seat reservations required and no extra standing passengers allowed.

Is this really a problem? Trains don't often sell out. I am a regular user of Eurostar and I don't remember ever not being able to get on the train that I wanted.
Anyway, I think standing passengers are not allowed by the Channel Tunnel safety regulations. And I'm not very keen to stand up for a two hour journey, even if that does happen in the UK.

3. Tickets are only valid for a specific train.

Given that seat reservations are mandatory, tickets have to be associated with a reservation on a specific train. All Eurostar tickets are changeable (usually for a fee).

4. Very messy timetable. - Their timetable is a complete mess and very confusing.

This is matching supply to demand - run more trains when people want to use them. This is a commercial service. What is the problem?

5. Their trains don't run late enough.

I have some sympathy with this, although I can't actually think of a time when it caused me a problem. I also don't see late flights between these cities.
The solution is to lobby your MP for the government to subsidise later services.

6. Having to arrive at the station 30 minutes before your train. - I understand that passport checks are necessary but 30 minutes is way too early. Its just another thing to inconvenience passengers. Personally i would prefer if each train stopped twice in each direction (at Cheriton [UK exit] and Coquelles [FR entry] for Southbound trains and at Coquelles [FR exit] and Cheriton [UK entry] for Northbound trains) to do border control. Although this would mean a longer journey time it would be made up for the fact that you could just arrive at the station a couple of minutes before your train.

I quoted the whole of this complaint because it's the most obvious sign that the OP's post is satirical.
The check in time is necessary because passport control (two) and a security check (one) are legally required. It is far more efficient to do them at the originating station than en route or on arrival. It's very easy for passengers - just turn up 30 minutes early!
Stopping the train and getting everyone and their luggage off the train twice, at either side of the tunnel, is not a good idea. This is done (once) already at Lille for trains coming from the south of France and takes 1 hour 15 minutes. If we were to follow the OP's proposal, it would add 2 and a half hours to the journey and be unpleasant and inconvenient for passengers. It would be madness.

I would love to be able to walk up to a train between the UK and the mainland. I would love the UK to join Schengen. Sadly, that's not looking likely at the moment. Don't like it? March for another referendum.

7. Security checks.

See above. Required by Channel Tunnel regulations. Typically only takes a couple of minutes. It's not as restrictive as at an airport, for example there are no restrictions on liquids. Don't like it? Write to your MP.

8. Awful delay repay.

This is an advantage of the Eurostar over domestic trains. Less of my fare gets redistributed to people who have suffered a minor delay. I don't like this compensation culture.

Eurostar is so inconvenient to use that i (and probably many other people) always just use the ferry (and slower local trains on both sides) instead. Far simpler and easier than using Eurostar.

Could you give some examples of practical journeys which are simpler, easier and more convenient using ferries and local trains rather than the Eurostar?
 
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Starmill

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I don't like this compensation culture.
'Compensation Culture' is a term used to describe a pervasive litigious attitude resulting in claims which are either extreme in frivolity or are downright fraudulent i.e. they involve either exaggeration or breaking the law.

Compensation according to a Delay Repay scheme is merely a contractual payment. It's 'compensation' only in the way that me buying a ticket is 'compensation' to the train company for their expenses in running the train, or someoe paying their Sky television subscription monthly is compensation to Sky for their services. By definition, contractual payments, pre-arranged and specific to certain circumstances, are not part of 'Compensation Culture', because they were mutually agreed upon at the time the ticket was bought and aren't litigious. Further discussion on this point would warrant a new thread.
 

anme

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'Compensation Culture' is a term used to describe a pervasive litigious attitude resulting in claims which are either extreme in frivolity or are downright fraudulent i.e. they involve either exaggeration or breaking the law.

Compensation according to a Delay Repay scheme is merely a contractual payment. It's 'compensation' only in the way that me buying a ticket is 'compensation' to the train company for their expenses in running the train, or someoe paying their Sky television subscription monthly is compensation to Sky for their services. By definition, contractual payments, pre-arranged and specific to certain circumstances, are not part of 'Compensation Culture', because they were mutually agreed upon at the time the ticket was bought and aren't litigious. Further discussion on this point would warrant a new thread.

Whatever definition you want to use of "compensation culture", the effect is the same. The compensation costs us all money that could be better spent on lowering fares or investing in services.
 

SHD

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This is why i am surprised that Eurostar don't make it easier to use their trains (ideally it should be as easy as using our domestic trains) in order to compete with the airlines.

How on Earth do you think that it would be possible to make Eurostar as easy to use as a Thameslink servce, when the former is an international train between countries that are not part of the Schengen area!?

Regarding late-night Eurostar trains, please remember that in France, high-speed lines are often closed at night, especially for maintenance. A departure from London after 2230 local time would certainly "hit" the closure window in France.

As to the much maligned "Romance" high-speed rail operating model, held in eternal contempt of many posters here, please do consider that it has proven commercially and operationally successful for more than 30 years in France, where the high-speed rail network is centered around point-to-point O/D services. This is consistent with France's economic and geographical profile -- very different from Germany's, which has an extensive network of strong cities and economic centers. And, in that perspective, London-Paris and London-Brussels are in essence point-to-point operations.

I notice you haven't focused any criticism on the inferior quality of their new rolling stock, which is another favourite here. I found it amazingly mediocre, with totally useless WiFi, cheap interior and poor quality fittings and fixtures. Ride quality was also remarkably poor on LGV Nord but I suspect that has less to do with Eurostar's train.

I do subscribe to the idea that Siemens' Velaro is a significantly inferior train compared to Class 373s and other TGVs in terms of dynamic and acoustic comfort (both of which are objectively measurable, as opposed to seat comfort, which boils down to personal preferences).
 
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43096

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Whatever definition you want to use of "compensation culture", the effect is the same. The compensation costs us all money that could be better spent on lowering fares or investing in services.
It does, though, provide a financial incentive for the operator to deliver the service as advertised. To downgrade or abolish it just removes the penalty, likely leading to poorer service in the long term.
 

anme

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It's the lack of walk up off peak type fares that put me off doing random day trips, FWIW. If you could get a walk-up Saturday return guaranteed for about £100 I'd almost certainly have done quite a lot of them. I very often get up on a Saturday morning and decide to go somewhere - the domestic railway gets a fair few quid off me for this, Eurostar get nowt.

I don't think Eurostar see cheap short notice enthusiast day trips as an interesting market. Guaranteed availability of tickets on the day for 50 pounds would make people less likely to pay 150 pounds in advance.

Similarly, Ryanair don't guarantee you can get a cheap ticket on the day even if they have unfilled seats. That's business.
 
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SHD

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It's the lack of walk up off peak type fares that put me off doing random day trips, FWIW. If you could get a walk-up Saturday return guaranteed for about £100 I'd almost certainly have done quite a lot of them. I very often get up on a Saturday morning and decide to go somewhere - the domestic railway gets a fair few quid off me for this, Eurostar get nowt.

Please do not take this as a personal attack, it is more of an amused observation based on your posting history-
I have a very hard time believing that you would wake up on a Saturday morning and even consider the idea of a daytrip to Paris or Brussels for leisure ("Oh there's a fantastic exhibition at Beaubourg, let's go there!"), as you seem to have nothing but disgust for both cities...
 

anme

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It does, though, provide a financial incentive for the operator to deliver the service as advertised. To downgrade or abolish it just removes the penalty, likely leading to poorer service in the long term.

Is there any evidence that this theory actually works? Do operators with more severe compensation schemes offer a better service?

It's not a bad idea in principle, but in practice I suspect it incentivises operators to minimise the cost to themselves in the cheapest, easiest ways available, such as padding timetables and demanding more subsidies from government before signing franchise agreements. And the money has to come from somewhere - passengers will pay one way or the other.
 

sprunt

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Do they not realise that many people don't plan in advance or are unable to plan in advance. Many people need to just be able to turn up and buy a ticket and board their train.

I'd suggest that an overwhelming majority of people plan international travel in advance. Bletchyite excepted, I suspect there are very few people who wake up in or around London on a Saturday morning and spontaneously decide to have a day trip to Paris.

6. Having to arrive at the station 30 minutes before your train. - I understand that passport checks are necessary but 30 minutes is way too early.

It doesn't sound especially early to me - I aim to arrive 30 minutes before any long distance train journey I'm making.


We've discussed why they don't run later trains many times before. Crucially it's almost certainly because they're not obliged to by any government, as LNER / Virgin Trains and others are. When you have a train with 1000 seats how do you fill a 2200 departure? With great difficulty if you want to operate profitably.

During the week, I'd agree, but I suspect they could fill later trains at the weekend - on Saturday, in particular, I'd have thought there would be a potential day trip market?
 
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