Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

[SCH117X]

Harrogate to Starbeck at a cost of £2.70 return on Transdev is a bit rich in my opinion, the problem being they seem to charge that fare no matter where you're going to on Knaresborough Road! Surely going to the hospital for example should be cheaper than going to Starbeck crossing...

On the other hand its a bargain compared to the £3.70 return to Bilton or Jennyfield - it certainly pays to buy weekly or longer tickets

 

[Deerfold]

Don't think they imply it "We have kept the increases to a minimum and will still remain the best value in Harrogate"

To be fair, I'm sure that everyone (whether a Transdev fan or a Hornsby hater) understands that it's a hard operating environment and that certain costs keep on increasing. Don't even think it's that poor that they don't specify how much they're going up by - sometimes mentioned by other firms but not always.

However, is there really any need for these barbed comments on a company announcement?

Critical, yes. I'm not sure how they're barbed. Is it not reasonable for passengers to know how fare changes are going to affect them?

I've made critical comments about Transdev announcements which don't mention details of fare increases - though they do usually give the range of increases that apply to single fares and precise fares for day and season tickets and don't criticise other bus companies.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Critical, yes. I'm not sure how they're barbed. Is it not reasonable for passengers to know how fare changes are going to affect them?

I've made critical comments about Transdev announcements which don't mention details of fare increases - though they do usually give the range of increases that apply to single fares and precise fares for day and season tickets and don't criticise other bus companies.

I think you've misinterpreted me - apologies if I should have been clearer. I was referring to the barbed comments from Connexions on their announcement, and whether it is really necessary for them to make rather churlish remarks.

It is fair to make the point in relation to ANY FIRM that if they announce a fair increase, they should communicate by how much. Conversely, I was pointing out that they're far from alone in not doing so and so perhaps shouldn't be singled out for criticism.

Hope I've cleared up any confusion!

 

[Deerfold]

I think you've misinterpreted me - apologies if I should have been clearer. I was referring to the barbed comments from Connexions on their announcement, and whether it is really necessary for them to make rather churlish remarks.

It is fair to make the point in relation to ANY FIRM that if they announce a fair increase, they should communicate by how much. Conversely, I was pointing out that they're far from alone in not doing so and so perhaps shouldn't be singled out for criticism.

Hope I've cleared up any confusion!

Ah! Crossed wires. No worries.

I will criticise any and all companies who are vague about fare increases (or even don't announce them anywhere people will see them). I tend to be particularly critical of Transdev as they were at one point very good, giving several weeks' notice and details of how every fare would change.

 

[theblackwatch]

According to reports on the local radio station's website, Connexions have been fined for parking a bus on the road on the stray. I've seen one there on several occasions and thought it was a rather poor place to park, yet alone leave a bus for most of the day - I wouldn't even leave my car there for 10 minutes!

https://www.strayfm.com/news/local-...in-a-week-for-parking-illegally-on-the-stray/

A Harrogate-based bus company was fined at least eight times in a week after being targeted for illegally parking on a busy highway at the Stray.

• Connexions Buses was fined at least eight times in a week after illegally parking on the Stray at York Place and Knaresborough Road in January
• Councillor Don Mackenzie, who is in charge of highways, labelled it a "ridiculous" place to park
• The company said a back-up bus has to be on standby close to the bus station in case of breakdowns or traffic, and that previous parking arrangements had fallen through

 

[carlberry]

According to reports on the local radio station's website, Connexions have been fined for parking a bus on the road on the stray. I've seen one there on several occasions and thought it was a rather poor place to park, yet alone leave a bus for most of the day - I wouldn't even leave my car there for 10 minutes!

https://www.strayfm.com/news/local-...in-a-week-for-parking-illegally-on-the-stray/

Is this genuinely a bus to cover for breakdowns or is it just parked up for driver break/in between schools? (i.e. is it still available to cover for breakdowns at busy periods).

 

[theblackwatch]

On a Saturday when I've see one there, it's been the 'spare' bus (which parks up from around 10.20 to 16.00) which used to park in Asda car park. In the week, I believe there have been more buses parked there on occasions.

 

[96tommy]

I don't blame Connexions at all for having a dig at Transdev, can I just remind people Transdev have probably increased their fares around 8 times since Connexions last did.

 

[theblackwatch]

Interesting that Stray FM have now changed the wording of their story:

A Harrogate-based bus company was fined at least eight times in a week after being targeted for illegally parking on a busy highway at the Stray
has become
A Harrogate-based bus company was cautioned at least nine times this month after being targeted for parking on a busy highway at the Stray

 

[Swimbar]

There appears to be double standards here.
Not an ideal place to park a bus I accept, however they actually park fully on the road whereas the Park Run people on a weekend park half on the road and half on the grass which is clearly unlawful. (Driving other than on a road)

 

[Alexbus12]

Maybe Transdev, the owners of the bus station, should try and create more layover space. I'm sure that #Amazing diesel generator takes up a lot of room in the station.

 

[Deerfold]

I don't blame Connexions at all for having a dig at Transdev, can I just remind people Transdev have probably increased their fares around 8 times since Connexions last did.

You really don't think being so unprofessional reflects badly on Connexions? I'm not sure passengers care how often fares change if they have a choice between the two - though they will care what the difference between the two is. How do they compare? I've only caught or considered catching Connexions recently on the X52 where they were significantly more expensive than other options on the journeys I've done (except in York where I had an AllYork ticket and they happened to be the first bus to come along).

 

[theblackwatch]

Maybe Transdev, the owners of the bus station, should try and create more layover space. I'm sure that #Amazing diesel generator takes up a lot of room in the station.

I'm not sure why they would want to try and do this - what would be the benefit of this to Transdev?

 

[Andyh82]

Maybe Transdev, the owners of the bus station, should try and create more layover space. I'm sure that #Amazing diesel generator takes up a lot of room in the station.

Maybe you should suggest where that layover space may be within the boundary of the bus station?

If the generator wasn’t there you’d be able to park maybe a car, not a double decker bus.

If Connexions are having problems finding space to park spare buses, they need to speak to NYCC not complain about Transdev.

 

[SCH117X]

Reading the Highway Code the only thing that seems to fit is para 242 which states you must not leave your vehicle or trailer in a dangerous position or where it causes any unnecessary obstruction of the road. The location they were using is a 3 lane width of highway with the central lane largely hatched out of use between its use for right turning lanes - at a guess the forcing of passing traffic into that unused lane then was viewed as confusing drivers coming in the opposing direction whether the traffic in the unused lane was turning right or not and hence judged to be in a dangerous position. I would have thought a patch of land would be available but no doubt the landowner would want some payment. Of course the alternative is that instead of parking the buses they actually used them, like for an X4.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Maybe Transdev, the owners of the bus station, should try and create more layover space. I'm sure that #Amazing diesel generator takes up a lot of room in the station.

Can you believe it? Connexions are caught consistently breaking the law and someone still manages to blame Transdev???

Words fail me as to the partisan stupidity of a thread that has jumped the shark!

I don't blame Connexions at all for having a dig at Transdev, can I just remind people Transdev have probably increased their fares around 8 times since Connexions last did.

No - it’s thoroughly unprofessional.

By all means, they should trumpet that they haven’t increased fares but that announcement is puerile.

 

[goldisgood]

Maybe Transdev, the owners of the bus station, should try and create more layover space. I'm sure that #Amazing diesel generator takes up a lot of room in the station.

Why should they? It's their bus station, as you acknowledge, and if they have enough layover space so that they aren't illegally parking what's the benefit to them? As for the diesel generator, as explained before, it is for emergency use, however due to issues out of Transdev's control it has been used to charge buses because the electricity company have failed to get the chargers up and running or something similar.

 

[Deerfold]

I don't blame Connexions at all for having a dig at Transdev, can I just remind people Transdev have probably increased their fares around 8 times since Connexions last did.

Since a year ago? Really?

http://www.connexionsbuses.com/uncategorized/fare-increase/

And in that they've highlighted where their fares are cheaper in a rather more professional (and useful) way.

 

[96tommy]

Maybe Transdev, the owners of the bus station, should try and create more layover space. I'm sure that #Amazing diesel generator takes up a lot of room in the station.

how they don't get more stick for the really #amazing diesel generator is just beyond me. Imagine if it was Connexions...........

Btw, when did the problem between Connexions and Transdev become as bad as this? Was it when Alex Hornby arrived on the scene?

 

[Stan Drews]

how they don't get more stick for the really #amazing diesel generator is just beyond me. Imagine if it was Connexions...........

I think that is because most people believed Transdev when they said it was outwith their hands, and down to the local authorities/energy suppliers etc, and accept that introducing any new innovation doesn’t always run smoothly. However, the usual Transdev trolls will keep trying to bang the drum.

Btw, when did the problem between Connexions and Transdev become as bad as this? Was it when Alex Hornby arrived on the scene?

I understand it goes back to long before Alex was around. If anything, it’s been a bit more sensible over the last 12-18 months, ...at least as far as on the road is concerned.

 

[SCH117X]

I understand it goes back to long before Alex was around. If anything, it’s been a bit more sensible over the last 12-18 months, ...at least as far as on the road is concerned.

It was the introduction of the X70 running 5 minutes in front of the 770 on which the then Transdev management said they welcomed sensible competition but not that, responding but running a 77 5 minutes in front of the X70. At the time the result of that appeared obvious and which has come to pass; fewer buses through Follifoot and those that do go that way now having to be funded by NYCC

 

[theblackwatch]

Transdev are offering free travel on the Harrogate Electrics on Sundays in March - see https://www.facebook.com/harrogatebus/photos/a.1575832882661857/2299602716951533/?type=3&theater

#HarrogateElectrics 2A, 2B, 3 and 6 will be FREE for everyone, every Sunday throughout all of March with the #SundayFreeway - more info is coming soon!

At least Connexions won't be able to complain about Transdev stealing their customers, given that they don't run on Sundays.

 

[Andyh82]

The Harrogate Electrics featured on Look North tonight in a piece about cleaner air.

You can watch it until Saturday evening on the BBC iPlayer.

And the answer to the question that will follow is ‘no it’s gone now’

 

[johntea]

Look North seemed to reckon 100% of Harrogate buses are electric! Err not quite!

£4 million just for what Transdev have now though, going to be slow progress in cleaning the air up at those sorts of sums though...although surely 1 normal bus carrying 50 odd passengers chucking out fumes is a more ideal situation than 50 cars on the road anyway?

Arriva have some buses where the engine seems to switch off every time the bus stops, the noise of it stopping and starting back up gets quite annoying after a while!

 

[SCH117X]

Presumably the £4m covers once off infrastructure costs and any increased number of overhead pantograph charging electrics will be pro rata cheaper albeit presumably additional charging stands may be required. They did check a Gemini could fit under one of the charging gantries. It was stated that the charging is automatic, or can the driver override if the vehicle has more then enough charge still as a 6 minute charge is going to really screw up the timetable when late running arises. Noted today the other operator was using a Solo on the X1 - a vehicle more suited to the typical custom.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Presumably the £4m covers once off infrastructure costs and any increased number of overhead pantograph charging electrics will be pro rata cheaper albeit presumably additional charging stands may be required.

The £4m is split

£816k - infrastructure
£1440k - price differential on bus costs

£1700k - Transdev funding of fleet

 

[Tetchytyke]

@TheGrandWazoo, is that £1.7m from Transdev what they would have spent if they'd bought bog standard buses?

Arriva have some buses where the engine seems to switch off every time the bus stops, the noise of it stopping and starting back up gets quite annoying after a while!

Sounds like the Volvo B5LH hybrids, late of this parish. The diesel motor switches off when stationary then the electric motor kicks in to get the bus moving again. It reverts to the diesel motor when a certain speed is reached. There are tons of them in London.

The other type was the E400H, where the diesel engine ran an electric motor and also charged a battery. It's still weird to hear the engine revs rise as the bus brakes...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

@TheGrandWazoo, is that £1.7m from Transdev what they would have spent if they'd bought bog standard buses?

Yes. We still have people who think the scheme is to pay for the entire vehicle.

The cash is to cover the difference between standard diesel and alternative technologies plus infrastructure costs.

 

[SCH117X]

Further funding will no doubt be forthcoming in the future now the basics are there - the reductions in emissions of the likes of carbon, nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide presumably have cost savings for the NHS. All the Versas incidentally are at York now.

 

[SCH117X]

I've noticed another thread on the tv feature has been closed and people referred to this one - to clarify the matter the 100% Electric service is that of the Transdev services that operate solely in Harrogate not all of Transdevs Harrogate based services, the tv feature did refer to the possibility of the electric services being extended in the future but that the overhead charged vehicles only have a range of around 25 miles. Transdev do also have a pair of traditionally charged electric Solos which were last year promoted as working the 24 to Pateley Bridge but which seem to be pretty scarce on that services. So in a typical weekday hour 10 Transdev Harrogate services leaving the bus station are electric (4x 2A/2B to Bilton, 4 x 3 to Jennyfield and 2 x 6 to Pannal Ash) and 20 are diesel vehicles (8x Route 1 to Knaresborough, 6 x 36 to Leeds, 3 x 36 to Ripon,2 x 7 to Wetherby then Leeds,1 x 24).