LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

[tomglazed]

It's the Hull executive diagram that's going first.
After that no one really knows, however with the 2020 PRM deadline approaching, I'm guessing they'll want to replace the HSTs first.

If recall correctly, I remember reading it’s actually the 225 sets that maybe more a focus to replace or at least reduce reliance on due to reliability concerns of Class 91’s and their upkeep continually becoming more labour and cost intensive.

 

[43096]

It's the Hull executive diagram that's going first.
After that no one really knows, however with the 2020 PRM deadline approaching, I'm guessing they'll want to replace the HSTs first.

It’ll be a delicate juggling act as they also need to release three Mark 4 sets for TfW and potentially others for GNWR.

 

[cactustwirly]

It’ll be a delicate juggling act as they also need to release three Mark 4 sets for TfW and potentially others for GNWR.

True, and there are only 13 HST diagrams, so I think they'll replace a few 91s first, and then come back to the HSTs.
On the GWML, it was something like a rate of 2 or 3 diagrams each month that went over to 800s, so once the introduction is in full swing, it won't take long to replace the HSTs (probably around 6 months)

 

[59CosG95]

I suspect the Hull Exec and the Newark 90 diagrams will be among the first, along with any captive Leeds HST diagrams that don't require venturing to Edinburgh. My bets are also on the Highland Chieftain being the final LNER HST turn.

 

[samuelmorris]

Assuming the PRM derogation gets granted, some (but not all) of the Mk4s will go before the HSTs - some of the Mk4s are spoken for, whereas the HSTs are unlikely to see further use when they are retired.

 

[43096]

True, and there are only 13 HST diagrams, so I think they'll replace a few 91s first, and then come back to the HSTs.
On the GWML, it was something like a rate of 2 or 3 diagrams each month that went over to 800s, so once the introduction is in full swing, it won't take long to replace the HSTs (probably around 6 months)

There are 14 HST diagrams to replace, btw.

 

[Monkeyhead]

Took this today at Doncaster, an amazing sight. A working HT 180. Then this white and red thing got in the way

 

[47271]

First Class looks to be a downgrade on the current VTEC/LNER refurbished sets as well.

Same as GWR rubbish First Class, but this is a completely different route with a completely different customer attitude to First Class purchase. Or for now it is anyway, while obviously superior standards of space and comfort are offered.

My advice to LNER is for them to massively up their game on First Class service on the new trains, it's frankly mediocre at the moment, or else the combination of poor accommodation and poor offering will decimate their premium business.

Downgrading to GWR Standard has been the easiest decision for me, and nothing will get me back after one IET First Class trip from Paddington to Bristol. I won't need much persuading on LNER either...

 

[The Nomad]

Took this today at Doncaster, an amazing sight. A working HT 180. Then this white and red thing got in the way

Looking at the first carriage, it looks like the naff Azuma branding has been removed from the side. Is this the case? It's on the nose, which doesn't look too terrible, but it was a bit excessive on every carriage.

 

[FQTV]

Looking at the first carriage, it looks like the naff Azuma branding has been removed from the side. Is this the case? It's on the nose, which doesn't look too terrible, but it was a bit excessive on every carriage.

It’s still there on that first carriage, but it’s not one every one on the ones that I’ve seen.

 

[800001]

It’s still there on that first carriage, but it’s not one every one on the ones that I’ve seen.

It's on nose come, and on the 1st carriage at each end.

 

[Thunderer]

wow those seats look thin, here is hoping they are more comfortable than they look.

I can confirm 100% they won't be, From someone who has the dubious experience of travelling on these things many times in the last year on GWR.

 

[387star]

I can confirm 100% they won't be, From someone who has the dubious experience of travelling on these things many times in the last year on GWR.

Was thinking How comfy southern 171 seats looked yesterday . Lucky Uckfiejd commuters. Seating is sure on a downward trend

 

[Doomotron]

Was thinking How comfy southern 171 seats looked yesterday . Lucky Uckfiejd commuters. Seating is sure on a downward trend

Actually, they're not. The material is Southern's trademark astro turf material and is very good at creating itches in places you don't want.

I've never been on a IET before so I don't know what the seats are like (although I do find Class 700 seats comfy so I'll probably like the IEP ones) but if they're as bad as people say they are - which could be either personal dislike or people just being annoyed over the HSTs being replaced - they could have gone with the Southeastern 'tombstone' seats, which are actually very comfortable for most people.

Spoiler

We should probably get back to the train at this point or we'll end up with the inevitable train seat argument.

 

[59CosG95]

800113 is now out and about in the LNER livery, and working the following today:

5Q30 0825 Doncaster Carr IEP Depot - Peterborough: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N06718/2019/02/11/advanced

5Q31 0957 Peterborough - York: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N06719/2019/02/11/advanced

5Q32 1303 York - Peterborough: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N06720/2019/02/11/advanced

5Q33 1456 Peterborough - York: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N06721/2019/02/11/advanced

5Q34 1714 York - Doncaster Carr IEP Depot: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N06722/2019/02/11/advanced

 

[Max]

Yorkshire Coast Community Rail Partnership has posted some images of an 800 at Hull on test on Sunday: https://www.facebook.com/233852183307277/posts/3088583244500809/

 

[59CosG95]

800113 is now out and about in the LNER livery, and working the following today:

5Q30 0825 Doncaster Carr IEP Depot - Peterborough: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N06718/2019/02/11/advanced

5Q31 0957 Peterborough - York: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N06719/2019/02/11/advanced

5Q32 1303 York - Peterborough: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N06720/2019/02/11/advanced

5Q33 1456 Peterborough - York: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N06721/2019/02/11/advanced

5Q34 1714 York - Doncaster Carr IEP Depot: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N06722/2019/02/11/advanced

To add to that, 800113 looks as if it's fully branded on both sides (bar coach detail stickers near the dot matrix displays), and it has standard spec innards (i.e. no LNER interior yet).

 

[Class455]

It's the Hull executive diagram that's going first.
After that no one really knows, however with the 2020 PRM deadline approaching, I'm guessing they'll want to replace the HSTs first.

London to Leeds was supposed to be the first to convert to Azuma operation

 

[59CosG95]

London to Leeds was supposed to be the first to convert to Azuma operation

The "Hull Executive" diagram doesn't just include the 1722 KGX-Hull service, it also includes the services that come before it, which are indeed King's Cross-Leeds services.

 

[westv]

The "Hull Executive" diagram doesn't just include the 1722 KGX-Hull service, it also includes the services that come before it, which are indeed King's Cross-Leeds services.

17:18 weekdays.

 

[59CosG95]

17:18 weekdays.

Apologies.

Anyhow, 801201 made its debut today (unbranded), on 5Q75 (1024 from Donny Carr IEP Depot to London King's Cross). http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00117/2019/02/13/advanced
This (headcode still unknown) should be its return. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00118/2019/02/13/advanced

 

[Class455]

Apologies.

Anyhow, 801201 made its debut today (unbranded), on 5Q75 (1024 from Donny Carr IEP Depot to London King's Cross). http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00117/2019/02/13/advanced
This (headcode still unknown) should be its return. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00118/2019/02/13/advanced

I'm currently on the train that will be working the Hull Executive diagram later today (1445 Leeds to King's Cross HST), so I'm assuming that this will be the train to go for when the Azumas first start out.

 

[GW43125]

Apologies if I've missed anything, but why the decision to go with 800s rather than 802s, surely the slightly beefier 802s would be better for the slogs up the highlands for example?

 

[swt_passenger]

Apologies if I've missed anything, but why the decision to go with 800s rather than 802s, surely the slightly beefier 802s would be better for the slogs up the highlands for example?

AIUI. The 802s were not yet thought of at the time DFT imposed their solution on the GW and EC operators. The 802 came later and was specified by GWR. Before that decision was made GWR were potentially keeping HSTs for Devon and Cornwall services.

 

[GW43125]

AIUI. The 802s were not yet thought of at the time DFT imposed their solution on the GW and EC operators. The 802 came later and was specified by GWR. Before that decision was made GWR were potentially keeping HSTs for Devon and Cornwall services.

Makes sense. Thanks.

 

[gsnedders]

AIUI. The 802s were not yet thought of at the time DFT imposed their solution on the GW and EC operators. The 802 came later and was specified by GWR. Before that decision was made GWR were potentially keeping HSTs for Devon and Cornwall services.

Essentially, the replacement for all the EC stock was ordered by the DfT and designed to meet a specification produced by the DfT, and the 800/801 is the outcome of that specification. The 802 is essentially an up-rated version of the 800, but given the EC franchise is getting stock ordered by the DfT it's getting what matches the DfT spec.

 

[westv]

I'm currently on the train that will be working the Hull Executive diagram later today (1445 Leeds to King's Cross HST), so I'm assuming that this will be the train to go for when the Azumas first start out.

The very first one was going to be the 07:00 from Hull.

 

[InOban]

We know what has to be done to solve the signal interference issue. Are there any plans to sort the stairway to suicide?

 

[cactustwirly]

Apologies if I've missed anything, but why the decision to go with 800s rather than 802s, surely the slightly beefier 802s would be better for the slogs up the highlands for example?

The 800s have the same engines as the 802s, it's just that the DfT has limited the power output to save fuel/money on Maintenance.
Some GWR 800s have the engines 'uprated' and they'll outperform an HST from 0-80mph

 

[Class455]

The very first one was going to be the 07:00 from Hull.

It turns out I was wrong anyway, it seems the loaned EMT HST rake works the Hull Executive diagram so that’s probably what they’re trying to get rid of first