TFW Pacer withdrawals

[Chris217]

Ha,since there is a thread for Northern
I thought I'd start one on TfW.
Seems that all the 143s now have advertisement slogans suggesting amongst others that...
These trains will be Terminating soon!
Somewhat insensitive for some perhaps.
None of the 142s have been done,so will they be getting rid of 143s first one thinks?
Here is one of many photos I took on Monday with such slogan applied.

 

[Plethora]

Ironic given that TFW are currently on track to be the last operator to ditch pacers...

 

[Cardiff123]

TfW won't be withdrawing any Pacers before December this year. In fact they are desperate for more from Northern when they start releasing theirs, to cover for TfW's 150s that need to have PRM mods done.
The 142s are next to have the black advertising vinyls applied.

So come back to this thread in December.

 

[PHILIPE]

Considering the availability position with TFW they will probably go on working until they have to, i.e. end of year. Shortage position and reasos can be found here:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/atw-keolis-amey-wales-stock-shortages.166304/

 

[anamyd]

What Cardiff123 said. Wales will, if Northern withdrawals allow, go from 30 Pacers of Class 142/143, to thought to be 43 Pacers of Class 142/143/144 during 2019 (to allow 150s to be PRM modified quicker) to none at the beginning of 2020. Only the 143s having the vinyls is just due to 10 being owned by Porterbrook and 4 being owned by Angel Trains, whereas all 15 Welsh 142s are owned by Angel Trains, and the different Rolling Stock Companies manage the way they allow operators to alter the trains differently, in this case the time taken to agree to the application of the vinyls.

 

[Bluejays]

Had a pacer from Cardiff to Cheltenham today, didn't realise tfw used them on the longer distance diagrams. The more they get demonised in the press by lazy journalism, the more I develop a grudging respect for them. They're not the best, but they're certainly more than adequate. Seems a shame to be getting rid of rolling stock because of political/press pressure rather than operational need.

 

[Parallel]

Had a pacer from Cardiff to Cheltenham today, didn't realise tfw used them on the longer distance diagrams. The more they get demonised in the press by lazy journalism, the more I develop a grudging respect for them. They're not the best, but they're certainly more than adequate. Seems a shame to be getting rid of rolling stock because of political/press pressure rather than operational need.

Indeed, they end up on Maesteg to Cheltenham and services to Pembroke Dock and Fishguard Harbour. I also saw one doing Cardiff - Carmarthen before and very occasionally they work Swansea - Llandrindod (can’t work north as Shrewsbury staff don’t sign them)

 

[childwallblues]

Also more stock will be needed from May. 2 x 150 are required to operate the new Chester to Liverpool Lime Street via Runcorn service. As far as I know this should come from 150s displaced from Chester to Crewe and Blaneau Ffestiniog services by D Train Class 230s. But if they don't turn up??

 

[Jez]

Ive seen pacers on Maesteg-Cheltenham Spa and Cardiff to Ebbw Vale a few times recently. Not seen them on Pembroke Dock for ages, is there still a booked Saturday diagram on the Pembroke Dock line?

I think there is still one booked for a swanline diagram on a Saturday (the one that ends up in Abergavenny) but yesterday it was a 150!

Personally I will be glad to see the pacers go, we have been stuck with them long enough IMO!

 

[Chris217]

Crewe to Liverpool has been passed for175s I believe.
According to a good mate at TFW,they are also looking at a 3rd loco hauled set.
But I was told that a while ago.

As for the Pacers,another slogan on the side included
The journey is almost over for old trains.
But who are they trying to kid?

Funny if the 144s do go down to Cardiff.
Will passengers even notice any difference except the fact that some of their trains have changed from turquoise to red lol.
Perhaps those slogans have been added a bit prematurely.
As said earlier,it is a bit insensitive to put those vinyls on given they have the best part of a year before anything new actually arrives?
The arrival of any 144s will certainly have the Pacers in having the last laugh.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

A small point, but the 144s haven't been red for around a decade... so they'll be even harder for the "normals" to tell apart!

 

[Cardiff123]

A small point, but the 144s haven't been red for around a decade... so they'll be even harder for the "normals" to tell apart!

Aren't the seats still in red fabric though?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Aren't the seats still in red fabric though?

Nope. Standard Northern (Serco/Abellio) dark blue. Most seats with lighter dots, priority seats in solid blue.

 

[Chris217]

Congratulations for spotting the deliberate mistake hehe.

 

[anamyd]

Also more stock will be needed from May. 2 x 150 are required to operate the new Chester to Liverpool Lime Street via Runcorn service. As far as I know this should come from 150s displaced from Chester to Crewe and Blaneau Ffestiniog services by D Train Class 230s. But if they don't turn up??

The TfW 230s should be ready by May. The WMT ones are now all being delivered at the moment, and Vivarail are saying that the TfW ones will follow right after.

 

[bramling]

Crewe to Liverpool has been passed for175s I believe.
According to a good mate at TFW,they are also looking at a 3rd loco hauled set.
But I was told that a while ago.

As for the Pacers,another slogan on the side included
The journey is almost over for old trains.
But who are they trying to kid?

Funny if the 144s do go down to Cardiff.
Will passengers even notice any difference except the fact that some of their trains have changed from turquoise to red lol.
Perhaps those slogans have been added a bit prematurely.
As said earlier,it is a bit insensitive to put those vinyls on given they have the best part of a year before anything new actually arrives?
The arrival of any 144s will certainly have the Pacers in having the last laugh.

It does seem silly putting up the publicity at this stage.

For those anxious to see the back of Pacers, would they prefer vinyls along the lines of “this train is extra crowded to allow us to tell you we got rid of our unpopular old trains”?

 

[Parallel]

It really wouldn’t surprise me if they were told to/given a heavy nudge by the WG due to the political implications of Pacers.

 

[Chris217]

Withdrawal of Pacers when they are short of stock would be just stupid.
That's Government interference for you though.
Perhaps Arriva bailed out because they saw what was about to happen and the cost of all the PRM work that was needed to comply with DDA regulations.
That or a fleet of new trains was needed!
The electrification of the Valley Lines has gone silent too.
No doubt something else the Government has interfered with.

 

[DarloRich]

Surely TfW is going to need MORE pacers from Northern as a stop gap?

The TfW 230s should be ready by May. The WMT ones are now all being delivered at the moment, and Vivarail are saying that the TfW ones will follow right after.

they are not yet in service and are late.

 

[krus_aragon]

Surely TfW is going to need MORE pacers from Northern as a stop gap?

Yes, but anamyd's point is that the 230s' arrival will offset the need for additional units for the Halton services from May.

they are not yet in service and are late.

The 769s are definitely late. I don't recall any date promised for the TfW 230s other than Spring 2019, though.

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, but anamyd's point is that the 230s' arrival will offset the need for additional units for the Halton services from May.

The Marston Vale 230's are late and not yet in service with no introduction date given.

 

[43096]

What Cardiff123 said. Wales will, if Northern withdrawals allow, go from 30 Pacers of Class 142/143, to thought to be 43 Pacers of Class 142/143/144 during 2019 (to allow 150s to be PRM modified quicker) to none at the beginning of 2020. Only the 143s having the vinyls is just due to 10 being owned by Porterbrook and 4 being owned by Angel Trains, whereas all 15 Welsh 142s are owned by Angel Trains, and the different Rolling Stock Companies manage the way they allow operators to alter the trains differently, in this case the time taken to agree to the application of the vinyls.

Which 143s do Angel own? AFAIAA they are all owned by Porterbrook except three with South Wales local authorities and three owned by GWR.

 

[anamyd]

Which 143s do Angel own? AFAIAA they are all owned by Porterbrook except three with South Wales local authorities and three owned by GWR.

601, 609, 610 and 614 I thought...?

 

[43096]

601, 609, 610 and 614 I thought...?

Those were the local authority owned sets, unless they have been sold; although the Angel Trains website has no mention of them.

 

[anamyd]

Those were the local authority owned sets, unless they have been sold; although the Angel Trains website has no mention of them.

You might be right!

 

[tomos dafis]

First TFW 142 re-branded with partial vinyls? Saw 142 075 today at Merthyr Tydfil station working 13.38 to Bridgend. Was carrying TFW vinyl along the sides - main message "A new journey is beginning" - bit more sensitive than the "These trains are leaving soon" on some 143's. All a bit premature/optimistic perhaps?

 

[Chris217]

Has 143083 lost its roof mounted pods?

 

[whhistle]

Poor Wales.
Getting rid of old unsuitable trains to get some new old stock from the Underground.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud what Vivarail has done but TfW should have just ordered some 195s to cover them for the next 30 years.

 

[sprinterguy]

Poor Wales.
Getting rid of old unsuitable trains to get some new old stock from the Underground.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud what Vivarail has done but TfW should have just ordered some 331s to cover them for the next 30 years.

Class 331s won't get anyone very far on the Conwy Valley or Wrexham - Bidston lines where the 230s are intended to operate!

Plus there will only be 5 of them, they're a targeted solution for a handful of isolated cases.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

331's not much use to a franchise that has almost no electrified lines.