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A career as a train driver

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RailUK Forums

Firecrest

New Member
Joined
11 Feb 2019
Messages
2
Hey everyone

I've been following the forums for some time and I wanted to spread some ♥️ and offer an easy method for receiving instant alerts when a job vacancy is posted, especially for Trainee positions which don't seem to last for very long.

I hope you find it useful!

You'll need to use the Google Chrome browser
  • Login to Chrome with a Gmail account (create one if you haven't already got one)
  • Enter search text for your dream job (it must contain the word Job)
For example
trainee train driver job -lorry -bus -instructor

The - sign immediately before a word omits results that contain that specific word i.e you don't want trainee Lorry drivers, you want trainee train drivers. It makes the results more relevant.​
  • When the results appear look for a Create Alert slider button and tap it, it should flip over to the right and you'll now get alerts straight to your Gmail inbox. (to see the slider button you might have to expand the results by clicking Show more first)
One last and important step. When you receive an alert email, click the text at the bottom that reads Manage Alerts. In the resulting page select the frequency for the alerts to be Instant.

That's all folks, good luck
 

Buel

Member
Joined
15 Feb 2019
Messages
21
Hi all.
I live near Shrewsbury and Chester. Other than TFW, please can I ask who else I should be keeping an eye on for vacancies?
 

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
9,398
Location
UK
Posted a good tip

One from me in a similar nature

Whenever I really want something that I can find on the interwebs I load the relevant website and then add it to my homepage. Set the TOCs career/vacancy page to one of your homepage tabs and whenever you open your browser it will automatically refresh the page, or at least encourage you to check it :)
 

Bradpaisley94

New Member
Joined
18 Feb 2019
Messages
3
As a foreigner, I am having a little bit of a hard time getting a grip on how the British system works. I have understood that there is a lot of competition about each new trainee position, but how many positions are there annually per average? I mean, is it even realistically worth trying to get one?
In Sweden, where I am from, there is a shortage of train drivers. But I guess that is not the same in Britain? I am 25 years old, healthy, educated (double Science degrees) and a big train enthusiast. What can I do to maximize my chances? Is there any part of the country where it is easier to get in a trainee position?

Many thanks!
 

Driver2B

Member
Joined
21 Apr 2018
Messages
224
As a foreigner, I am having a little bit of a hard time getting a grip on how the British system works. I have understood that there is a lot of competition about each new trainee position, but how many positions are there annually per average? I mean, is it even realistically worth trying to get one?
In Sweden, where I am from, there is a shortage of train drivers. But I guess that is not the same in Britain? I am 25 years old, healthy, educated (double Science degrees) and a big train enthusiast. What can I do to maximize my chances? Is there any part of the country where it is easier to get in a trainee position?

Many thanks!

Hi,

In the UK, there is A LOT of competition for train driver jobs. Figures are usually said to be around 300-500 applicants for each job! After all, a starting wage (after training) of £50,000-£60,000 pa without need for formal qualifications or experience sounds very attractive (people don't consider the negative factors of the job)! Therefore, statistically, it is difficult to get a job.

Recruitment for train drivers can take many years - plenty of anecdotal evidence for this on these forums! I'm hopefully starting in the next few weeks and I applied almost 18 months ago! Many of the applicants may not have had their heart set on train driving and might not have remained interested, looking for more of an instant job.

The psychometric assessments will rule many people out (after two fails, you don't get any more tries). Then you have to really show your enthusiasm and skills in interview - some applicants might not have even researched enough to find this forum (which is very high on a Google results list)! What I'm trying to say is that while 300-500 people might apply for a job, many of those might just be "giving it a shot" rather than really, really want it like me and others on this forum. So maybe, it's not quite as difficult as it first seems - but that's not to say that it's easy, either!

Anyway, in the UK, you can't independently train for the job. You need a company to employ you as a trainee and they will train you.

Therefore, the first stage is to look for job adverts. Because train operating companies get so overwhelmed with so many applications, they don't usually advertise very often. And when they do, they frequently close them before the closing date (after less than 36 hours in one case I know of!). The first thing that you need to do is to register on the careers sites of all of the train operating companies and freight operating companies in your area. You can usually set up alerts, so set up an alert on each of these that they e-mail you whenever they have a vacancy including the word "driver". Also set up alerts to every new thread to this board: https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/railway-jobs-careers.122/

Once you see an advert for a company in your area, cancel all other plans and apply to it! Remember, you don't know how long it will be up (think in hours and not days)! Having all of the dates of previous employment, and educational qualifications to hand, ready to copy and paste will help! Also, they might ask you why you want the role or to explain why you are suitable for the role. Have some answers ready to copy, paste and edit to suit their specific question ready.

Then comes the sift! They will decide who they are interested in and who they are not. You might get binned (thanks, but not on this occasion) or you might get through to assessments! I applied to 7 and got binned by 4. It could take up to six months to hear from the TOC!

Eventually, you might be invited to go for assessments. I was invited over a year after applying to a TOC - don't expect it to be quick!

If you pass those, you will be invited to two interviews - a Driver Manager Interview (DMI) and a Multi-Modal Interview (MMI).
(The MMI is technically part of the assessments, and depending on your TOC, might be conducted on the same day as some of your assessments.)

If you are successful, you will be sent for a medical. If that is successful, references and criminal record check. Then, hopefully, you start training! :)

Your first day of training is your first day of working for the company, even though you are not "productive" at this time. Training is split into three stages, usually with a pay rise at the end of each stage:
Stage 1: Personal Track Safety (PTS) and Rules
Stage 2: Traction and Handling (after which you get your "key" or driving licence)
Stage 3: Route learning.

Training can take anything fro 9-18 months, depending on your TOC and depot. Some need to learn more traction than others. Some need to learn more routes than others. Some need to learn all routes before driving, others can add to their route card gradually.

Therefore, the procedure isn't like applying for a course where you hope to get a job at the end, but it applying for a job, where they train you.

Finally, the other thing you mentioned is your qualifications. I, too, have a degree, and so do many train drivers, but that's not necessarily what they are looking for. Key things that you need to tell them during the application process (application and interviews are):
* commitment to safety and following rules and procedures, and experience in safety-critical roles
* attention to detail, including in a fast-paced environment
* ability to make decisions and experience of doing this
* ability to work alone and experience of this
* good communication skills and ability to work with others
* commitment to good customer service (but not at the expense of safety)

Also 25 is quite quite young. It's not a barrier per se, but many other applicants are aged 30-50, and some older than that. They will be looking for experience over youthfulness!

Anyway, I hope that this has been helpful. If you have any queries, please don't hesitate to respond. Good luck in finding a position!
 

1812_s

Member
Joined
22 Feb 2018
Messages
70
can someone link me the best online software to help with the computer tests of the driving assessment.

Also something with the TEA-occ if possible

Thanks in advance
 

Driver2B

Member
Joined
21 Apr 2018
Messages
224
can someone link me the best online software to help with the computer tests of the driving assessment.

Also something with the TEA-occ if possible

Thanks in advance



I've posted the following elsewhere.

Re the TEA-Occ, it includes a link to a test track. I don't know of any such software or other audio files. If you have a helpful friend or family member and a keyboard/piano, that would work well.

There's also a good video for the ATAVT Perception Test. You could ask a friend or family member to find some similar images online and show you a peak at those then answer the questions, although it's probably largely something you're innately good at or not.

Personally, I wouldn't stress too much about the computer tests. The GBT is what I practised for the most and am glad that I did!

Hope it's helpful.

I attended an assessment day with a TOC which accepts national standards.


I understand that many TOCs have around 20-25 people taking the tests on that day. The TOC which assessed me, however, assesses fewer people at once (8 were due to attend but only 5 did). Of the 5 who attended, two worked for the TOC in guard or ticket office roles, and at least one of the absentees, too.


The TOC should have e-mailed you an information pack telling you what tests would be conducted, the procedures for them and giving your ideas for practice before the day.


The tests are designed to be psychometric, hence they assess your capabilities. I saw that when doing the tests. There are some people I know who I think could practice full time and still never pass. It assesses innate abilities, although, of course, some practice in advance can help you a little.


Initially, we were asked to wait in a waiting room. We were asked 1-by-1 to go into an interview room where our identity, including NI number, was checked. We were also given a colour-blind test. In this test, you have to read the numbers which you can see in circles made of different colours. Warning: There are some trick ones! There are no numbers on some of them - don't try finding one; just say you can't see one!


When that was conducted, we were taken to a room where we each had a desk with stationery provided. I brought my own pens which I usually use which I find comfortable.


The first test was the Group Bourdon Test. This is the test which most people find the hardest and I recommend that you spend most time practising. You need to find groups of four dots. There's a downloadable online tool: https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/bourdon-zip.36183/. I initially started doing it online and then moved on to printing and doing them on paper. You do get used to the patterns of dots on the tool, and they are different on the actual test, although the skills are transferrable. There are various people on this forum who quote how many lines you need to complete and how many errors you can make to pass. I was doing about 9 or 10 lines on the printouts from the tool with only 1 or 2 mistakes per page and I passed. Be very sceptical of people who say you need to complete 14 or 15 lines with no more than one mistake! (Of course, some TOCs require enhanced testing, which may require slightly more.) There was also a practice section at the start. The practice grids in the information booklet were less helpful than the tool (using letters rather than dots).


We then had a break while the test was marked. One person was asked into the interview room to be told that he failed so he was sent home.


The next test was the Test of Everyday Attention (TEA-Occ). This measures attention to multiple things and how well you can multi-task.

Part 1 required us to listen to beeps (some with low tones, others with 'high' but I'd call them moderate-to-low). You will need to count just certain tones (can't remember if it was low or high). An example is available here, but there weren't so many tones for each question: https://traineetraindriverinfo.com/low-tones-test-track-1/

Part 2 required us to do some simple telephone directory work. I think it was finding companies in a particular trade with a rating of three stars and with a phone number with a particular area code. It wasn't rocket science and probably doesn't need much practising, but it is designed to make you work quickly. You might not finish and don't need to.

Part 3 was the hardest, combining both part 1 and part 2. You hear number 1 read out and a number of beeps (only one tone this time). You need to write the number down when told. This continues. At the same time, you have a telephone directory task similar to part 2. You are told that both parts are of equal importance. You must use different pens for both tasks. When doing it, I got a good sense that I was truly multi-tasking. It's a good test, actually!

The booklet gives you some activities to help you. Recognising symbols probably isn't too difficult for most people. If you have somebody who could play patterns of two tones on a keyboard or piano (written down first so the answers can be assessed), that might help you, and also if they can play similar tones while they asked you to do a reading task / telephone directory task / wordsearch. However, I didn't practise much for this test and I know some others didn't either, and we passed.


The next test was the Trainability for Rules and Procedures Test (TRP), Part 1 which assesses how well you can learn new things. The railway rulebook is huge for a start, and you will also need to learn about fault finding and repairing, not to mention route knowledge. We were given a two-page information sheet explaining how "GLOP" is applied to the rails using a locomotive and application vehicle operated by a driver and a guard, including what controls there are, the colours and locations of them, when they should be used, the signalling system between the driver and guard, etc. We also heard a recording of this. We then had to hand back the information sheet and answer questions on the procedure. I found this quite easy, but some people don't pick up new information well, especially when there are lots of details. They give a very clear example in the booklet sent before the day.

Part 2 is sometimes known as the “dials” test. You get sets of 3 dials with pointers pointing to the number on each dial, and you have to put them in order (I believe starting with the largest). However, each dial has a different number range (one might go from 0-150 and another might go 0-500) so in that example, halfway on the dial going up to 500 would read '250' but the whole way on the dial going up to 150 would be only '150'. You have 43 questions to complete in 8 minutes and I don't think that anybody ever completes them all. Apparently, you are scored for correct answers but not penalised for wrong answers.


The final written test was the Written Communication Test (WCT), although I understand that this is no longer compulsory and some TOCs no longer do this. We were given a cartoon strip showing a taxi booking, a taxi picking a person up on time, delays on the route, and arrival at destination late. We had to write what happened. The only thing that matters is clarity so your writing needs to be legible, but not necessarily neat. You do not need to write in sentences - bullet points are acceptable. Grammar and spelling is not important if it does not obscure meaning. You can continue to look at the cartoon strip during the test - you do not need to turn it over or have it collected. I have been told that almost 100% pass this test - if your handwriting is legible and you can convey a simple story, even just in bullet points, you're fine!


Again, we were sent to the waiting room while the tests were marked - this took a long time (almost an hour, I think)!


The final tests were the computerised tests. There might not be one computer per person so some people might have to take the test while other people are waiting.


I think the first computerised test was the ATAVT Perception Test. You will view a picture of a street scene for approximately 0.5-1 second. You will then have to choose from the list (pedestrians; motor vehicles excluding motorcycles; bikes, motorcycles or scooters; road signs; traffic lights) what was in the picture. There might be as few as one or as many as five in any one picture. Many pictures are busy scenes and you will notice the presence or absence of some things, but for most of the time, you will not be certain that you have got them all right - there will be some guesswork or subconscious decision-making involved. This will suit people who are observant and can process quickly.

This video will give you a good idea of the test, but I think the pictures disappear more quickly in the assessments than shown on this video:

Asking a friend or family member to download some pictures from the internet and test you on them (giving you only a brief peek) might help.


I think the second test was the 2Hand Co-Ordination Test. You will have two joysticks, one will only go up and down, and the other will only go left and right. You have to control a ball around a track trying not to let it go off of the grey track, which includes curved sections. You will hear a screech when it does. This is repeated many times. It is aimed to be difficult and most people will not keep it on the track all the way around. We all thought we did really badly on this!


The final test was the WAFV (Vigilance) Test. You will see a grey square flashing on the screen. When it changes colour to a different shade of grey, you press the large green button as quickly as possible. This continues for 30 minutes, sometimes for long periods between changing. Also, your eyes imagine it changing when it doesn't. It's a good assessment because if you can't concentrate on being vigilant for 30 minutes, being in charge of a train might not be a good idea! When your eyes lose focus, move closer to or further away from the screen. Also, surprisingly, the colour changes aren't random but pre-programmed. Therefore if one person starts their test, another starts two seconds later and another starts two seconds later, you will hear the first person press their button, then about two seconds later the next person, and another two seconds later the next person.


We were then asked to wait in the waiting room again while the results were generated.


Finally, we were congratulated for passing the tests and advised about the next procedures in the application process. We were also given some basic pieces of advice for the DMI.


Hope that this is helpful. Feel free to ask any further questions!
 

Buel

Member
Joined
15 Feb 2019
Messages
21
Hi,

In the UK, there is A LOT of competition for train driver jobs. Figures are usually said to be around 300-500 applicants for each job! After all, a starting wage (after training) of £50,000-£60,000 pa without need for formal qualifications or experience sounds very attractive (people don't consider the negative factors of the job)! Therefore, statistically, it is difficult to get a job.

Recruitment for train drivers can take many years - plenty of anecdotal evidence for this on these forums! I'm hopefully starting in the next few weeks and I applied almost 18 months ago! Many of the applicants may not have had their heart set on train driving and might not have remained interested, looking for more of an instant job.

The psychometric assessments will rule many people out (after two fails, you don't get any more tries). Then you have to really show your enthusiasm and skills in interview - some applicants might not have even researched enough to find this forum (which is very high on a Google results list)! What I'm trying to say is that while 300-500 people might apply for a job, many of those might just be "giving it a shot" rather than really, really want it like me and others on this forum. So maybe, it's not quite as difficult as it first seems - but that's not to say that it's easy, either!

Anyway, in the UK, you can't independently train for the job. You need a company to employ you as a trainee and they will train you.

Therefore, the first stage is to look for job adverts. Because train operating companies get so overwhelmed with so many applications, they don't usually advertise very often. And when they do, they frequently close them before the closing date (after less than 36 hours in one case I know of!). The first thing that you need to do is to register on the careers sites of all of the train operating companies and freight operating companies in your area. You can usually set up alerts, so set up an alert on each of these that they e-mail you whenever they have a vacancy including the word "driver". Also set up alerts to every new thread to this board: https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/railway-jobs-careers.122/

Once you see an advert for a company in your area, cancel all other plans and apply to it! Remember, you don't know how long it will be up (think in hours and not days)! Having all of the dates of previous employment, and educational qualifications to hand, ready to copy and paste will help! Also, they might ask you why you want the role or to explain why you are suitable for the role. Have some answers ready to copy, paste and edit to suit their specific question ready.

Then comes the sift! They will decide who they are interested in and who they are not. You might get binned (thanks, but not on this occasion) or you might get through to assessments! I applied to 7 and got binned by 4. It could take up to six months to hear from the TOC!

Eventually, you might be invited to go for assessments. I was invited over a year after applying to a TOC - don't expect it to be quick!

If you pass those, you will be invited to two interviews - a Driver Manager Interview (DMI) and a Multi-Modal Interview (MMI).
(The MMI is technically part of the assessments, and depending on your TOC, might be conducted on the same day as some of your assessments.)

If you are successful, you will be sent for a medical. If that is successful, references and criminal record check. Then, hopefully, you start training! :)

Your first day of training is your first day of working for the company, even though you are not "productive" at this time. Training is split into three stages, usually with a pay rise at the end of each stage:
Stage 1: Personal Track Safety (PTS) and Rules
Stage 2: Traction and Handling (after which you get your "key" or driving licence)
Stage 3: Route learning.

Training can take anything fro 9-18 months, depending on your TOC and depot. Some need to learn more traction than others. Some need to learn more routes than others. Some need to learn all routes before driving, others can add to their route card gradually.

Therefore, the procedure isn't like applying for a course where you hope to get a job at the end, but it applying for a job, where they train you.

Finally, the other thing you mentioned is your qualifications. I, too, have a degree, and so do many train drivers, but that's not necessarily what they are looking for. Key things that you need to tell them during the application process (application and interviews are):
* commitment to safety and following rules and procedures, and experience in safety-critical roles
* attention to detail, including in a fast-paced environment
* ability to make decisions and experience of doing this
* ability to work alone and experience of this
* good communication skills and ability to work with others
* commitment to good customer service (but not at the expense of safety)

Also 25 is quite quite young. It's not a barrier per se, but many other applicants are aged 30-50, and some older than that. They will be looking for experience over youthfulness!

Anyway, I hope that this has been helpful. If you have any queries, please don't hesitate to respond. Good luck in finding a position!
This really was incredibly helpful, thank you so very much for it.
 

Slinky252

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2018
Messages
79
Hi guys, just wanted to know a bit more about the whole recruitment numbers wise. I have just put my first application into West Midlands trains and unfortunately fell at the first stage the sjt. I have looked at my answers and due to overthinking, I reckon ,I know now where I went wrong. So I’m going to get myself ready for the next job advert ,which I understand could take sometime. So how many would you say apply for 1 position? How many jobs are available possibly (I guess that’s like how long is a piece of string those two) how many in percentages get through application wise. And then how many fail the tests before DMI. I here the failure rate is massive through the whole process hence why they need to keep recruiting but also I here people stuck in the process for years ,just being patient. Sorry for all these questions just trying to get an up to date answer on these. And when historically do West Midlands trains recruit is it once a year, longer or do they sometimes surprise with more than one a year. Cheers ???
 

Topcat999

Member
Joined
30 Jan 2019
Messages
74
300+ applicants per position? Wow......I think I'll give up on this. Even if 80% are wild shots that's over 60 competitors per position. The chances of success are very slim!

I wish I had have gone for this 15 years ago....sadly not to be. Good bye and good luck!
 

baz962

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2017
Messages
3,280
300+ applicants per position? Wow......I think I'll give up on this. Even if 80% are wild shots that's over 60 competitors per position. The chances of success are very slim!

I wish I had have gone for this 15 years ago....sadly not to be. Good bye and good luck!

You have as much chance as anyone else. Nothing to lose.
 

diana

Member
Joined
20 Oct 2018
Messages
21
Hello, has anybody from Exeter group who had 2nd assessment in Swindon today passed? can we congratulate anybody today? I had a feeling we had 3 future train drivers there? I failed the perception test
 

Willum

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2018
Messages
33
Hello, has anybody from Exeter group who had 2nd assessment in Swindon today passed? can we congratulate anybody today? I had a feeling we had 3 future train drivers there? I failed the perception test

A few of us from here going up next Tuesday. How was it?
 

AshDee

Member
Joined
27 Feb 2019
Messages
27
A few of us from here going up next Tuesday. How was it?
Horrible feeling isn’t it, I failed mine yesterday on the phonebook test I misinterpreted what was to be done! I’ve spoken to quite a lot of people who failed first time but passed 2nd time so good luck for the future.
 

MORGANE

New Member
Joined
10 Jan 2019
Messages
3
There is a thread at the top of the page titled driver's depots. This lists all the train operating companies , and I believe is quite up to date. Go on to all their websites and check career section's .
thanks so much baz962
 

Peeler

Member
Joined
8 Mar 2019
Messages
92
Apologies if it has been covered before in this thread but it’s a long so will ask.

How long does the recruitment process typically take? Do TOCs advertise to create a talent pool or because they genuinely have places coming up? I only ask because I’ve been essentially told that ‘movement at the depo is expected so they’ve been asked to recruit’. Given the process to become qualified takes over a year, in reality what does the recruitment cycle for train drivers actually look like?
 

AshDee

Member
Joined
27 Feb 2019
Messages
27
I applied in November I didn’t hear anything until Feb when I was invited to interview. I had my interview on the Monday and found out I was invited to assessment by the Wednesday . My assessment date was 2 weeks later, unfortunately I failed on the simplest task as assessment but had I been successful I was likely to start training Sept or Dec so it’s about a year long process. I now need to wait 6 months before retrying the assessment
Good luck though it’ll be worth it if you succeed
 

Peeler

Member
Joined
8 Mar 2019
Messages
92
Thanks for the info Ash. It looks like different TOCs do things in different order if you had your interview before assessment?

I did application form, online situation test & then assessment centre.

Sorry to hear you didn’t pass one of the tests. Best wishes for a re-try.
 

AshDee

Member
Joined
27 Feb 2019
Messages
27
Thanks for the info Ash. It looks like different TOCs do things in different order if you had your interview before assessment?

I did application form, online situation test & then assessment centre.

Sorry to hear you didn’t pass one of the tests. Best wishes for a re-try.
Thank you it’s acwaiting game now
 

Railweigh

Member
Joined
5 Dec 2018
Messages
59
300+ applicants per position? Wow......I think I'll give up on this. Even if 80% are wild shots that's over 60 competitors per position. The chances of success are very slim!

I wish I had have gone for this 15 years ago....sadly not to be. Good bye and good luck!

As someone else said above, you’ve as much chance as anyone else. I got in first time from a non-railway, non-safety critical background. Others on my course did too.

Apologies if it has been covered before in this thread but it’s a long so will ask.

How long does the recruitment process typically take? Do TOCs advertise to create a talent pool or because they genuinely have places coming up? I only ask because I’ve been essentially told that ‘movement at the depo is expected so they’ve been asked to recruit’. Given the process to become qualified takes over a year, in reality what does the recruitment cycle for train drivers actually look like?

Depends on the TOC and what their requirements are at the time. I started the course within 6 weeks of my first interview, though the interview itself was 4 months from my application date.
 

OneLowban

Member
Joined
30 Oct 2017
Messages
693
Just as a message to anyone in this thread looking to become a train driver after reading some above, do not give up!

We were told for every one of us on the driver course there were 340 that didn’t make it, but until you are told it’s not you more than once, you still have a chance.

In general age, background, level of education doesn’t matter. Just go for it.
 

PeeWee

New Member
Joined
11 May 2018
Messages
4
Evening all. Are there any train drivers in the North Liverpool area who I can private message for some advice please?
 

Adam Mcgregor

Member
Joined
25 Oct 2018
Messages
18
Hello
Sorry if this is a silly question. Just started looking into becoming a trainee driver. What is the best way to not miss out on job adverts for drivers.
Thanks Adam
 
Joined
1 Mar 2018
Messages
988
Hello
Sorry if this is a silly question. Just started looking into becoming a trainee driver. What is the best way to not miss out on job adverts for drivers.
Thanks Adam

Keep an eye these forums - people will nearly always post vacancies as they are advertised, but also sign up for job alerts on your local TOC's recruitment website, and check there regularly. If you do spot a vacancy then apply straight away as they don't always stay up for the length of time advertised, simply due to the number of applicants.
 

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