Should disabled users upgraded to first class receive the full first class offering?

[Bantamzen]

Just thinking a bit more about it, the only possible issue I can see happening is if a regular user finds themselves on a 397 replacement (say a 185) and back out in the vestibule & not getting the First Class offerings they might on the former. Most people would just accept it, but one or two might make an issue on the basis that they usually get the extra trimmings. Here's hoping that if this does transpire to be TPEs policy for the 397s that they are reliable enough not to need too many replacements!

 

[AM9]

So it seems from the posters in this thread that it's no problem. The fact that TPE have planned for accessible accommodation to be in 1st class means that it was a good intention all along. If they carry the cost then it's no business of other 1st or standard class passengers.

 

[AM9]

Just thinking a bit more about it, the only possible issue I can see happening is if a regular user finds themselves on a 397 replacement (say a 185) and back out in the vestibule & not getting the First Class offerings they might on the former. Most people would just accept it, but one or two might make an issue on the basis that they usually get the extra trimmings. Here's hoping that if this does transpire to be TPEs policy for the 397s that they are reliable enough not to need too many replacements!

New design trains reliable?

 

[gnolife]

I'm wondering what it means for passengers accompanying a wheelchair user - While I can't see any objection being raised to one companion, I can't imagine that TPE would be impressed with half a dozen people trying to accompany a wheelchair user into first

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm wondering what it means for passengers accompanying a wheelchair user - While I can't see any objection being raised to one companion, I can't imagine that TPE would be impressed with half a dozen people trying to accompany a wheelchair user into first

I believe one companion is allowed typically.

As to the original question, yes, they should get the full service. It costs next to nothing to actually deliver it.

 

[Llanigraham]

I'm wondering what it means for passengers accompanying a wheelchair user - While I can't see any objection being raised to one companion, I can't imagine that TPE would be impressed with half a dozen people trying to accompany a wheelchair user into first

The Disabled Rail Card allows for ONE helper only.

 

[swaldman]

I'm wondering what it means for passengers accompanying a wheelchair user - While I can't see any objection being raised to one companion, I can't imagine that TPE would be impressed with half a dozen people trying to accompany a wheelchair user into first

Yeah, this design does mean that a wheelchair user can't travel as part of a group, unless the rest of the group are prepared to pay for First. Not ideal. But I agree with the comments above that given this layout, providing catering makes sense.

 

[Andrew Nelson]

...only if you have a Railcard first!

Why wouldn't you?

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Just thinking a bit more about it, the only possible issue I can see happening is if a regular user finds themselves on a 397 replacement (say a 185) and back out in the vestibule & not getting the First Class offerings they might on the former. Most people would just accept it, but one or two might make an issue on the basis that they usually get the extra trimmings. Here's hoping that if this does transpire to be TPEs policy for the 397s that they are reliable enough not to need too many replacements!

Make an issue.

Like the one that stopped TPX using the Loco-hauled stock to alleviate over crowding you mean?

 

[JamesT]

Why wouldn't you?

You don't make £60 of train trips in a year?

 

[Bantamzen]

Make an issue.

Like the one that stopped TPX using the Loco-hauled stock to alleviate over crowding you mean?

I wasn't really thinking about that one, that stock wasn't compliant for accessibility although there may have been more / other reasons as to why the MKIIIs were not used. I'm thinking more if/when the 397s are replaced on odd services due to issues with the booked unit. Most passengers would likely just shrug it off as one of those things, but there are always those that might kick off.

Say a 185 replaces a 397 on a particular service. Firstly the disabled passengers would have to be accommodated in the usual place in the vestibule next to the First Class section, and not in it. This in itself might be perceived as an issue by a few, and not one that could be resolved because there is no suitable area for them in the First Class compartment. Then the passenger may not be offered the usual First Class service because a) They are not in First Class, and b) a 185 replacing a 397 might be so busy that the passenger would be surrounded by standees.

Hopefully it would be a very irregular occurrence, and as I say most would just get on with it. I'm just thinking aloud really, wondering what might be the policy in such circumstances.

 

[Andrew Nelson]

I wasn't really thinking about that one, that stock wasn't compliant for accessibility although there may have been more / other reasons as to why the MKIIIs were not used. I'm thinking more if/when the 397s are replaced on odd services due to issues with the booked unit. Most passengers would likely just shrug it off as one of those things, but there are always those that might kick off.

Say a 185 replaces a 397 on a particular service. Firstly the disabled passengers would have to be accommodated in the usual place in the vestibule next to the First Class section, and not in it. This in itself might be perceived as an issue by a few, and not one that could be resolved because there is no suitable area for them in the First Class compartment. Then the passenger may not be offered the usual First Class service because a) They are not in First Class, and b) a 185 replacing a 397 might be so busy that the passenger would be surrounded by standees.

Hopefully it would be a very irregular occurrence, and as I say most would just get on with it. I'm just thinking aloud really, wondering what might be the policy in such circumstances.

So, to be safe, best not to offer them the privileges of first class in the first place then.

 

[Bantamzen]

So, to be safe, best not to offer them the privileges of first class in the first place then.

Not necessarily, just make the passengers aware that the services are subject to change on the 397 routes.

 

[grumblingalong]

First class has been the home of the wheelchair space on GA for a very long time now, users in the space are not entitled to first class complimentary items, but a cup of tea normally finds its way to them....

 

[Deafdoggie]

You don't make £60 of train trips in a year?

Disabled Railcard is only £20, and wheelchair passengers do not need one to get the discount anyway.

 

[NoOnesFool]

Only people with valid First Class tickets should receive First Class refreshments.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Only people with valid First Class tickets should receive First Class refreshments.

But if the train company is not providing standard class wheelchair spaces that does seem a little unfair, particularly as it is only tea and biscuits. We are not talking a full meal

 

[driver_m]

If you begrudge someone getting a drink or a snack, when you have the ability to walk off a train yourself unaided, have the freedom to do exactly what your able body does, Especially when you're fortunate enough to go first class. say it's time to assess your life, and ask yourself why are you so bitter.

 

[Kite159]

What happens on GWR? [as the wheelchair space on a 5-coach 80X is in 1st class]

 

[LowLevel]

Nobody should know any different anyway, why would the other occupants of first class know what ticket is held and therefore care?

 

[yorkie]

Only people with valid First Class tickets should receive First Class refreshments.

How is that even practicable? The Guard checks tickets; catering staff don't generally (some TOCs are an exception to this) and it would potentially create an awkward situation if they were to ask.

Nobody should know any different anyway, why would the other occupants of first class know what ticket is held and therefore care?

Exactly.

 

[driver_m]

How is that even practicable? The Guard checks tickets; catering staff don't generally (some TOCs are an exception to this) and it would potentially create an awkward situation if they were to ask.
Exactly.

I thought caterers weren't supposed to ask at any TOC? Ours don't, they're supposed ask the Train Manager if they have any suspicions, as it's their job to check tickets.

 

[LowLevel]

I thought caterers weren't supposed to ask at any TOC? Ours don't, they're supposed ask the Train Manager if they have any suspicions, as it's their job to check tickets.

EMT first class hosts check tickets and refer any issues if they arise to the train manager.

 

[Deafdoggie]

EMT first class hosts check tickets and refer any issues if they arise to the train manager.

As do XC

 

[Bantamzen]

EMT first class hosts check tickets and refer any issues if they arise to the train manager.

Some TPE hosts have checked tickets, though when a Standard ticket holder has been challenged they are generally advised that they will be charged extra when the guard comes.

 

[cjp]

I do not know about should but if I was traveling first class I would raise no objection.
Come on people those in wheelchairs have a bad enough quality of life anyway so stop being petty.
I am surprised the original question was even posed as it was

 

[IceAgeComing]

It strikes me that offering the service would be the better idea; not doing so is more likely to attention to the person using the accessible space and that's not the best thing to do. Besides I don't begrudge the person in that position a free cup of tea and biscuit honestly!

I do not know about should but if I was traveling first class I would raise no objection.
Come on people those in wheelchairs have a bad enough quality of life anyway so stop being petty.
I am surprised the original question was even posed as it was

Wouldn't say that EVERYONE in a wheelchair has a terrible quality of life and the disabled people I know would object to that; but certainly they face barriers in life that an able-bodied person like he does not face so it'd be a bit rich if I complained about them getting a tiny little bonus that's insignificant in the big scheme of things that I don't get.

 

[driver_m]

EMT first class hosts check tickets and refer any issues if they arise to the train manager.

I'm surprised at that. Would have thought it would cause trouble for the caterers, I'm not questioning the right and wrongs and definitely don't want to start any debate/go off topic.

Back to the subject I seem to recall so etching on twitter where TPE made a point of saying their disabled punters would get am auto upgrade. Not long after the MK3 debacle.

 

[headshot119]

I will be play devils advocate for a moment.

Do people who have said that the refreshments should be provided as a gesture of goodwill because the person is disabled. Does your answer change if the person is in a wheelchair because they've only got a temporary issue, say a broken leg?

 

[Deafdoggie]

I will be play devils advocate for a moment.

Do people who have said that the refreshments should be provided as a gesture of goodwill because the person is disabled. Does your answer change if the person is in a wheelchair because they've only got a temporary issue, say a broken leg?

I don't see why it should, they are only using the wheelchair whilst disabled.