GWR Class 800

[Richard Scott]

Was in 802001 today, quite surprised as still not seen 800001 or 800301 in service yet.

Saw 800301 at Newport on Saturday morning

 

[Thunderer]

802101 to 802105 have been accepted. 802106 is due for acceptance next week and 802107 the week after.

The last one, 802114, is due to be accepted around mid-April.

Thank you. Almost a full contingency for GWR now then...

 

[Thunderer]

Saw 800301 at Newport on Saturday morning

Was in 802001 today, quite surprised as still not seen 800001 or 800301 in service yet.

I had 800301 two weeks ago on a diverted Sunday Paddington to Swansea....

 

[317 forever]

Was in 802001 today, quite surprised as still not seen 800001 or 800301 in service yet.

I haven't studied the technicalities, but I admit that I don't know what the main distinctions between 800s and 802s are.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

I haven't studied the technicalities, but I admit that I don't know what the main distinctions between 800s and 802s are.

Originally the 800's and 802's were different as the latter had larger fuel tanks (1.55m3) and the engines were set at a higher output (940hp instead of 740). However, I believe that the 800's have recently had their engines turned up to the full 940hp as well so now the difference is only fuel tanks.

 

[JN114]

I haven't studied the technicalities, but I admit that I don't know what the main distinctions between 800s and 802s are.

There’s very very little between them now - to all intents and purposes the difference is the ownership/management regime. 800s are from the IEP and thus have to be operated in line with the DfT specifications laid out. 802s were procured in the more traditional way so there is a greater degree of flexibility as to how GWR use them - although with the inclusive maintenance Hitachi do have some say as to when/where they get units back etc.

The 800/0s are Vinyl livery over white base rather than fully painted on the 800/3s, 802/0s and 802/1s.

There are some software/engine management differences relating to power delivery when running on the GUs (although both types have the full 700kW available at point(s) in the speed range). But once the new seat covers are fitted as far as joe public is concerned there shouldn’t be any real visible differences.

 

[tomglazed]

There’s very very little between them now - to all intents and purposes the difference is the ownership/management regime. 800s are from the IEP and thus have to be operated in line with the DfT specifications laid out. 802s were procured in the more traditional way so there is a greater degree of flexibility as to how GWR use them - although with the inclusive maintenance Hitachi do have some say as to when/where they get units back etc.

The 800/0s are Vinyl livery over white base rather than fully painted on the 800/3s, 802/0s and 802/1s.

There are some software/engine management differences relating to power delivery when running on the GUs (although both types have the full 700kW available at point(s) in the speed range). But once the new seat covers are fitted as far as joe public is concerned there shouldn’t be any real visible differences.

I think the only other difference noted earlier up in the tread was possible raised resistor banks on the roof of Class 802's to mitigate effects of any water egress in the Dawlish sea exposed areas.

Was on the 16:01 Exeter St. Davids to Paddington yesterday, formed of 2x 5 car 802's. Overall successful journey (on time/early, full reliance on digital seat reservations etc.) but upon arriving into Reading, after some sit time due to arriving around 10 minutes early, our coach changed from H to B which caused some confusion to many passengers but most were unphased. Is this a normal occurance to remap the coach layout mid-journey?

 

[VT 390]

Does anyone know why the displays on the outsides of the class 800's don't seam to work properly as today when at Worcester Shrub Hill the display first said Worcester Foregate Street then changed to Exeter St Davids which there are no direct trains from Worcester and when it departed for London Paddington it said Cardiff Central.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Originally the 800's and 802's were different as the latter had larger fuel tanks (1.55m3) and the engines were set at a higher output (940hp instead of 740). However, I believe that the 800's have recently had their engines turned up to the full 940hp as well so now the difference is only fuel tanks.

I will say this once more.

From entry into passenger service in October 2017, all 800 sets in passenger service had the larger 1550L fuel tanks from the start and the engines were also set to 700kw (940hp).

The difference in the power setting is that the 800 sets were (and are) set to a different acceleration curve to the 802 sets. That is for DfT/Agility contractual reasons, to reduce engine wear on the 800 sets. It's purely a software variation between the two, which can be altered with the aid of a laptop.

The main physical difference between the two classes is the large roof mounted brake grids on the 802 sets. This makes them about 0.4T heavier per car and therefore there will be a few points of a pence difference in the per mile VTAC that GWR has to pay NR.

 

[Master29]

I think the only other difference noted earlier up in the tread was possible raised resistor banks on the roof of Class 802's to mitigate effects of any water egress in the Dawlish sea exposed areas.

Was on the 16:01 Exeter St. Davids to Paddington yesterday, formed of 2x 5 car 802's. Overall successful journey (on time/early, full reliance on digital seat reservations etc.) but upon arriving into Reading, after some sit time due to arriving around 10 minutes early, our coach changed from H to B which caused some confusion to many passengers but most were unphased. Is this a normal occurance to remap the coach layout mid-journey?

I shouldn`t have thought by Reading that would really have mattered seeing as the only affected by this point would have been the few who would board at Reading. I take your point about coach letters changing during the journey however as this happened to me recently only 10 minutes out of Paddington where coach B then became H. Not that it mattered as the imaginary reservation system was doing it`s normal function. I.e nothing. In any case I would hardly call Reading half way through the journey from Exeter...

 

[Charlie Smythe]

I will say this once more.

From entry into passenger service in October 2017, all 800 sets in passenger service had the larger 1550L fuel tanks from the start and the engines were also set to 700kw (940hp).

The difference in the power setting is that the 800 sets were (and are) set to a different acceleration curve to the 802 sets. That is for DfT/Agility contractual reasons, to reduce engine wear on the 800 sets. It's purely a software variation between the two, which can be altered with the aid of a laptop.

The main physical difference between the two classes is the large roof mounted brake grids on the 802 sets. This makes them about 0.4T heavier per car and therefore there will be a few points of a pence difference in the per mile VTAC that GWR has to pay NR.

Hence why i said "originally" and not "currently".

 

[Master29]

Just out of curiosity I`ve noticed on the 5 car iet`s both GWR and LNER there seems to be a space between the first row of seats in coach A and the doors (cab end) which is filled with 4 extra seats on 9 car GWR`s but not the 9 car LNER`s. Is this storage space or anything? Does seem rather odd considering they've clearly filled areas with seats elsewhere on these trains.

 

[tomglazed]

I shouldn`t have thought by Reading that would really have mattered seeing as the only affected by this point would have been the few who would board at Reading. I take your point about coach letters changing during the journey however as this happened to me recently only 10 minutes out of Paddington where coach B then became H. Not that it mattered as the imaginary reservation system was doing it`s normal function. I.e nothing. In any case I would hardly call Reading half way through the journey from Exeter...

It may not matter to you, me or any other person a little more well versed in these new trains but to some members of the GP it can be a little disconcerting. A simple announcement could have been made just to give people a head's up that this was happening either to make for an easier turn around in Paddington or whatever the reason maybe and to pay it no mind.

I stated the "imaginary reservation system" was being "fully relied upon" aka no paper tickets all digital this time round, and I never said "half way through" to describe Reading at that point in a journey from Exeter to London so I think your intent behind wanting to post that clouded your ability to actually read what I said.

 

[387star]

How many units have the new seat covers all or just some?

Are unit numbers known?

 

[Master29]

It may not matter to you, me or any other person a little more well versed in these new trains but to some members of the GP it can be a little disconcerting. A simple announcement could have been made just to give people a head's up that this was happening either to make for an easier turn around in Paddington or whatever the reason maybe and to pay it no mind.

I stated the "imaginary reservation system" was being "fully relied upon" aka no paper tickets all digital this time round, and I never said "half way through" to describe Reading at that point in a journey from Exeter to London so I think your intent behind wanting to post that clouded your ability to actually read what I said.

"but upon arriving into Reading after some sit time due to arriving around 10 minutes early, our coach changed from H to B which caused some confusion to many passengers but most were unphased. Is this a normal occurance to remap the coach layout mid-journey?"

That was from your first quote which pretty much says you did state Reading as being half way. I agreed with you about changing coach numbers confusing people so what`s your point?

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

How many units have the new seat covers all or just some?

Are unit numbers known?

What new seat covers?

 

[JN114]

What new seat covers?

The new design of seat covers fitted to the 802s and being retrofitted to the 800s; with dark grey moquette not light grey easi-stain cloth.

How many units have the new seat covers all or just some?

Are unit numbers known?

As far as I’m aware all the 802s should have them. The 800s are being done but it’s quite slow progress; I don’t have unit numbers.

 

[samuelmorris]

I think all the 800/3s are meant to have them too, just the 800/0s being retrofitted.

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

The new design of seat covers fitted to the 802s and being retrofitted to the 800s; with dark grey moquette not light grey easi-stain cloth.

Ah that's good, because the old light grey moquette looks so plain and dull

 

[JN114]

Ah that's good, because the old light grey moquette looks so plain and dull

It’s cloth, not moquette. Moquette is a type of fabric; but the term is frequently used incorrectly to refer to the design of seat covering.

 

[43096]

It’s cloth, not moquette. Moquette is a type of fabric; but the term is frequently used incorrectly to refer to the design of seat covering.

Yep. As built the 800s have flat cloth. GWR use cut-pile (cut cost!) moquette, which has the “astro turf” feel to it. The most high quality is loop-pile moquette - more expensive but harder wearing and longer lasting. The move towards flat cloth and cut-pile moquette might well be down to the franchising system and the way it encourages short term thinking.

 

[59CosG95]

Yep. As built the 800s have flat cloth. GWR use cut-pile (cut cost!) moquette, which has the “astro turf” feel to it. The most high quality is loop-pile moquette - more expensive but harder wearing and longer lasting. The move towards flat cloth and cut-pile moquette might well be down to the franchising system and the way it encourages short term thinking.

If that's the case, so much for the "permanent brand".

 

[JN114]

800318, on electric, reached 110mph by the M4 bridge at Studley departing Swindon. In my experience that’s the fastest run I’ve been on to date.

 

[AlexNL]

The move towards flat cloth and cut-pile moquette might well be down to the franchising system and the way it encourages short term thinking.

Cleaning and replacement costs might be a factor. It's a given that the cloth will get dirty and might suffer damage, this will happen to both types of cloth over time.

 

[northernbelle]

Yep. As built the 800s have flat cloth. GWR use cut-pile (cut cost!) moquette, which has the “astro turf” feel to it. The most high quality is loop-pile moquette - more expensive but harder wearing and longer lasting. The move towards flat cloth and cut-pile moquette might well be down to the franchising system and the way it encourages short term thinking.

It's the other way round. Cut pile is the more usual type of moquette - softer because the pile is cut and the fine fibres are exposed.

Loop pile is ala GWR and Southern where the loops of the pile are retained and therefore feel harder and tend to wear better.

Incidentally, 150001/002 have cut pile moquette in the current GWR green/grey - I think they are the only trains in the fleet to have this combo.

 

[anamyd]

It's the other way round. Cut pile is the more usual type of moquette - softer because the pile is cut and the fine fibres are exposed.

Loop pile is ala GWR and Southern where the loops of the pile are retained and therefore feel harder and tend to wear better.

Incidentally, 150001/002 have cut pile moquette in the current GWR green/grey - I think they are the only trains in the fleet to have this combo.

I didn't notice any problems with the moquette on 150-002, I was just gutted I was in one of the DMS vehicles (I only got on it as "a 150").

 

[43096]

It's the other way round. Cut pile is the more usual type of moquette - softer because the pile is cut and the fine fibres are exposed.

Loop pile is ala GWR and Southern where the loops of the pile are retained and therefore feel harder and tend to wear better.

Incidentally, 150001/002 have cut pile moquette in the current GWR green/grey - I think they are the only trains in the fleet to have this combo.

Ta for the correction.

Whoever explained it to me obviously got it wrong as well!

 

[Wychwood93]

800318, on electric, reached 110mph by the M4 bridge at Studley departing Swindon. In my experience that’s the fastest run I’ve been on to date.

I was on the 1B20 (0945 Pad-Swansea) yesterday - Milepost 80 (just before the M4 bridge) in 2m 17.83 from Swindon at 108 - up to 120 before the Studley overbridge. Zero to 100 from Swindon in 1m 56.96 (a double 802 formation). A rather good 21m 00 dead to the stop at Parkway - could have been better as a check after Winterbourne to 63, with speed increasing to 65 at the M4 underbridge. Today saw zero to 100 westbound from Reading in 1m 57.02, again a double 802 formation. These things are good! Before anyone mentions the accuracy of the timings - two decimal places - I record what I time, with some 50 years of doing so - and what I time I write. If I put the timings into a spreadsheet and it looks good - then job done! I am not, however, infallible!

 

[samuelmorris]

0-100 in sub 2 minutes seems quite good for a unit geared for higher. How does that compare to HSTs, dare I ask?

 

[anamyd]

0-100 in sub 2 minutes seems quite good for a unit geared for higher. How does that compare to HSTs, dare I ask?

Not sure about 100, but Valenta HSTs in 2001-2002 took about 10 minutes to hit 125, and 180s when new around that same time took only 4.5 minutes to hit 125. So less than 2 minutes for an 802 to hit 100 sounds about right to me!