Should disabled users upgraded to first class receive the full first class offering?

[tiptoptaff]

Which coach is the dining service in on an IET though that's what I'm getting at? First-class or do they take orders from seated customers in standard?

It'll be in the 1st class driving vehicle, next to the kitchen. On HSTs it was in the 1st class buffet car. It is not complimentary and the accommodation is not classified as 1st class, it is closed to anyone who isn't dining.

If you wish to dine, you have to pay the cost of the meal, and can sit in the first class dining section l, regardless of class of ticket held. Then you return to the class for which you hold a ticket

 

[pt_mad]

It'll be in the 1st class driving vehicle, next to the kitchen. On HSTs it was in the 1st class buffet car. It is not complimentary and the accommodation is not classified as 1st class, it is closed to anyone who isn't dining.

If you wish to dine, you have to pay the cost of the meal, and can sit in the first class dining section l, regardless of class of ticket held. Then you return to the class for which you hold a ticket

Oh right I had no idea. I'm guessing the food is expensive then or it might end up cheaper to pay for food and sit there relaxing than it would to pay the first-class fare and not have a meal?

 

[tiptoptaff]

Oh right I had no idea. I'm guessing the food is expensive then or it might end up cheaper to pay for food and sit there relaxing than it would to pay the first-class fare and not have a meal?

I don't know, I haven't done it. You can only stay there for the time it takes to eat your meal, and they're quite hot on moving people along if they're busy

 

[jon0844]

Oh right I had no idea. I'm guessing the food is expensive then or it might end up cheaper to pay for food and sit there relaxing than it would to pay the first-class fare and not have a meal?

I've had the full English breakfast on the Paddington to Swansea service and it wasn't cheap (£16 each rings a bell but I can't remember for sure) but the staff were excellent - like being in a posh restaurant - and it was all served item by item to a very professional standard. When I say posh, I don't mean pretentious.

I’ve paid more for Weekend First and had nothing free, so I considered it quite a bargain. We went to Cardiff and didn't have to move back to standard.

 

[GW43125]

Delete, people beat me.

 

[anamyd]

I've had the full English breakfast on the Paddington to Swansea service and it wasn't cheap (£16 each rings a bell but I can't remember for sure) but the staff were excellent - like being in a posh restaurant - and it was all served item by item to a very professional standard. When I say posh, I don't mean pretentious.

I’ve paid more for Weekend First and had nothing free, so I considered it quite a bargain. We went to Cardiff and didn't have to move back to standard.

IET or HST...?

 

[LowLevel]

See that's discriminatory. An able bodied person can just turn up at a station and get on a train. Full equality means that a physically disabled person should be able to as well.

It's also rubbish. I would say most of the wheelchair users I pick up and drop off don't book. Every train has a guard so it doesn't really matter. It's only longer distance journeys and DOO trains where booking is necessarily the norm.

Don't they serve a hot meal on VTWC that is complimentary? That's why I ask as I assumed it was the same sort of arrangement.

They serve a fairly pint sized portion of some largely reheated food yes - the Pullman dining service is a multi course meal which you pay full whack for like the old GNER restaurant but even more posh than that.

 

[VT 390]

It'll be in the 1st class driving vehicle, next to the kitchen. On HSTs it was in the 1st class buffet car. It is not complimentary and the accommodation is not classified as 1st class, it is closed to anyone who isn't dining.

If first class is full then will they let people with first class tickets who don't want to eat sit in that area?

 

[NoOnesFool]

GWR's policy is free for wheelchair user + companion only. Any extras have to pay or sit separately. (There are common sense exceptions if it's parents/guardians/grandparents/etc travelling with children)
Ultimately, it's the wheelchair user they haven't provided for, not anyone else.

But this only applies to 5/10 car IET services. 9s and HSTs, plus units, it's carriage in class of ticket. Have seen a wheelchair passenger get very angry with staff because they "always get put in first class" while holding a STD ticket, and their reservation was A00 on a booked 9car IET, which duly turned up.

I don't know the policy, but I have never seen wheelchair passengers and companions not offered the first class offerings.

As an RPO, would you say that this system works well i.e. common sense approach or do you feel it needs to be more strictly defined?

 

[jon0844]

IET or HST...?

IET. Wasn't blown away by first class compared to an HST but it was nice enough.

 

[anamyd]

IET. Wasn't blown away by first class compared to an HST but it was nice enough.

Thanks

 

[mmh]

Eh? It's possible to do so on any non-DOO train at any station where they can get on the platform. And why should they not?

DOO is an irrelevance here. The most accessible routes and stations are all DOO.

 

[mmh]

Eh? It's possible to do so on any non-DOO train at any station where they can get on the platform. And why should they not?

No, it isn't. It should be, but it isn't.

 

[Qwerty133]

No, it isn't. It should be, but it isn't.

Unless there is already a wheelchair user on board or there is one booked further down the line unbooked wheelchair users should be able to board trains with guards at accessible stations without booking in advance* and any guard who denied access would not be very popular with management.
*Except in the very rare situations where the equipment needed is unexpectedly lacking from the train or the guard isn't trained or physically able to use it for some reason.

 

[Jon125]

What's the price difference between 1st class as you can buy a wheelchair for £52 quid on eBay.

 

[philthetube]

Too many people seem to think good customer service and politeness means being obsequious and fawning over them.

There's nothing rude about telling someone something is none of their concern and to mind their own business.

When I was interviewed for my job on the railway I was asked, "Is the customer always right", when I said no I was asked to give examples, I got the job.

 

[dyst]

When I've travelled in first class on a standard class ticket (wheelchair user), I've offered to pay for refreshments, but they don't have the facilities.

 

[jon0844]

What's the price difference between 1st class as you can buy a wheelchair for £52 quid on eBay.

I do wonder if someone will try this. Given the attitude of some people, I guess I know the answer. Let's hope it doesn't end up on Reddit or similar as a cheap first class upgrade method - whereby you'll have tens of wheelchairs turning up for each train.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I do wonder if someone will try this. Given the attitude of some people, I guess I know the answer. Let's hope it doesn't end up on Reddit or similar as a cheap first class upgrade method - whereby you'll have tens of wheelchairs turning up for each train.

What's the price difference between 1st class as you can buy a wheelchair for £52 quid on eBay.

There are people who turn up at Alton Towers in a wheelchair, because those in wheelchairs get to go to the front of the queue! It will (if it doesn't already!) happen. Out of interest though, what is TOC policy on a wheelchair user who can transfer to a seat and fold up the chair? Do they still get allocated the wheelchair space? If not, then there is little point in getting a wheelchair for a free tea. If so, then I guess there will be those who try it on, and get a first Class seat and free drinks. But the numbers will be low, and I would say it is better to carry a few scoundrels who try it on, than upset the genuinely disabled by not allowing it. There will always be those who will find a scam, whatever you do.

 

[Clip]

I do wonder if someone will try this. Given the attitude of some people, I guess I know the answer. Let's hope it doesn't end up on Reddit or similar as a cheap first class upgrade method - whereby you'll have tens of wheelchairs turning up for each train.

Well there is a thread on here about a Virgin upgrade at around £50 through the week that some give and some dont so its about the same really.

As for loads turning up en masse - I dont think that the TOCs would get reprimanded for not being able to convey all at once which is why they generally ask for 24 hours notice for assistance so that they can put people on different trains if needed

 

[jon0844]

You indeed can't stop doing something because people will abuse it, but you'd think the TOC thought of this problem before it might become one. The bigger issue is that an incentive to get an upgrade might fill the wheelchair area for a genuine user. Wouldn't need to happen often - just once would be bad enough for the genuine user.

Really, the proper solution was a wheelchair area in both classes. But it's a bit late now.

 

[dyst]

Even if there is a wheelchair space in both classes, at short platform stations they often end up putting you in first class anyway (e.g. the GWR HSTs, where there are spaces in coach C and L). I'd hope people wouldn't abuse the system - imho it's better with the wheelchair space in first, as it's a lot less likely to be occupied by luggage and buggies - I've sometimes ended up in the vestibule of coach C on the HSTs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder if someone will try this. Given the attitude of some people, I guess I know the answer. Let's hope it doesn't end up on Reddit or similar as a cheap first class upgrade method - whereby you'll have tens of wheelchairs turning up for each train.

There's a minor issue with that, it isn't as comfortable as sitting in a seat in 1st, is it?

 

[jon0844]

There's a minor issue with that, it isn't as comfortable as sitting in a seat in 1st, is it?

I sat in my mum's wheelchair once and it wasn't that uncomfortable.

I am rather hopeful that it isn't going to be an issue, but what if someone just gets out of the chair and sits in the companion seat? It's not as if a wheelchair user has to remain in their seat.

I don't know the layout but assume there is one (as there is on Eurostar, where I recently sat when upgraded on a journey home from Paris)?

 

[VT 390]

You indeed can't stop doing something because people will abuse it, but you'd think the TOC thought of this problem before it might become one. The bigger issue is that an incentive to get an upgrade might fill the wheelchair area for a genuine user. Wouldn't need to happen often - just once would be bad enough for the genuine user.

Really, the proper solution was a wheelchair area in both classes. But it's a bit late now.

Is it to late to fit wheelchair spaces in as the interior could always be modified in the future.

 

[dyst]

Is it to late to fit wheelchair spaces in as the interior could always be modified in the future.

They'd need to fit accessible toilets too, not as simple as it seems?

 

[Bletchleyite]

They'd need to fit accessible toilets too, not as simple as it seems?

Not super-simple, but can be done - note how much classic stock they are being fitted to. There is a standard module.

 

[jon0844]

Not super-simple, but can be done - note how much classic stock they are being fitted to. There is a standard module.

There's even the scope to add a disabled toilet to a 717, but I have no idea if that would ever be seriously looked at by a future operator. Assuming TfL takes over the GN inners, I am certain there would be no intention to start providing toilets on one of its trains.

 

[VT 390]

There's even the scope to add a disabled toilet to a 717, but I have no idea if that would ever be seriously looked at by a future operator. Assuming TfL takes over the GN inners, I am certain there would be no intention to start providing toilets on one of its trains.

If there is no standard toilet then why would a disabled toilet be needed?

 

[jon0844]

If there is no standard toilet then why would a disabled toilet be needed?

There's provision to add a toilet, and if that was to happen it would have to be a disabled toilet and almost certainly positioned in the disabled coach. The documentation for the train states the ability to add one later, but I cannot see it happening - at least not unless the fleet one day gets cascaded elsewhere. I would expect the stock will be dedicated to GN inners for their whole life.

Of course, you could get a situation where the Government one day says all trains need toilets.. but is that really likely?