Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[bramling]

Merseyrail? (thinking about the old Mersey tunnels here, rather than the modern link and loop tunnels)

Only the loop section of the Wirral Line - and (presumably) the diveunder at Hamilton Square. The Northern Line tunnels have side walkways.

The previous trains had end doors retro-fitted to allow them to work temporarily on the loop until the current trains arrived.

 

[jimm]

230005 is out on Cotswold Line test runs today after a late departure from Long Marston.

 

[153375]

230005 is out on Cotswold Line test runs today after a late departure from Long Marston.

Also a path in RTT for tomorrow for 230005 to go to Bletchley.

 

[MadCommuter]

230004 made a trip from Bletchley to Bedford and return today. My Dad took this photo in the outskirts of Bedford.

 

[jimm]

Couple of pictures of 230005 at Evesham and Honeybourne taken by Peter Tandy

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/Recentpics.html

 

[153375]

Also a path in RTT for tomorrow for 230005 to go to Bletchley.

230005 on route to Bletchley

 

[tnxrail]

230005 at a windy Kenilworth:

 

[DarloRich]

230005 might be en route to Bletchley but according to LNWR twitter the new trains wont enter service until December 2019 - that is a mere year late.

https://twitter.com/MKDarlo/status/1098281232083881988

 

[jimm]

But some rowing back by LNR now going on.

From 30 minutes ago

I don't believe they were planned to be last year December; but there is a question mark over whether they would be delivered for May, so we shall see!

Pict ire of 230005 at Finstiock this afternoon by Martin Loader

http://hondawanderer.com/230005_Finstock_2019.htm

 

[absolutelymilk]

The previous tweet seems to be referring to TfW's 230s rather than LNWR's

 

[krus_aragon]

The previous tweet seems to be referring to TfW's 230s rather than LNWR's

But it was a tweet by LNWR, not Vivarail or anyone else. Why would they have been talking about TfW's units?

 

[Neen Sollars]

But some rowing back by LNR now going on.

From 30 minutes ago



Pict ire of 230005 at Finstiock this afternoon by Martin Loader

http://hondawanderer.com/230005_Finstock_2019.htm

Nice Pic. Hmmm? 230003 was delivered to LNWR in October 2018 for service in time for December 2018 timetable change. I read on another thread each new train has to do 2000 miles on test before entry into service. I read on this thread that rail unions will not accept the 230`s into service, for as yet an unspecified reason(s). Another poster suggested that prior service as a D78 will not mean a class 230 will automatically be "licensed" to run on the overground network. 230004 and 005 had delivery delayed due to technical issues which Vivarail publicly acknowledged were its fault. We know the fault is (must be) fixed on 004 and 005, but will 003 have to return to Long Marston for rectification? There is no way that any of these 230`s would have clocked up 2000 miles in November to be ready for service in December 2018. So perhaps each of the 230`s will need 2000 miles trouble free test service before the rail union will give the ok for it to enter service? But Vivarail seem to consider the units are ready to go into service as soon as delivered, and the TOC has undertaken the necessary crew training? So what is the official status of these upcycled D78`s Vivarail claim they are new trains but appear to think they are ready to go upon delivery to the TOC`s. Views please.

 

[LOL The Irony]

So perhaps each of the 230`s will need 2000 miles trouble free test service before the rail union will give the ok for it to enter service?

Only the first 2 of each version need 2000. IIRC the rest only need 500.

 

[700007]

I interpreted it as TfWs 230s entering service in December. The LNWR ones have all been constructed and delivered. Considering there has been intensive testing, I struggle to believe the introduction of three diesel 2-car second hand trains are delayed by a whole year.

Would be really disappointed if it was the case, somehow.

 

[DarloRich]

But some rowing back by LNR now going on.

From 30 minutes ago

Funny how the press release from both viva rail and lnwr at the time said something different........

 

[DarloRich]

I interpreted it as TfWs 230s entering service in December. The LNWR ones have all been constructed and delivered. Considering there has been intensive testing, I struggle to believe the introduction of three diesel 2-car second hand trains are delayed by a whole year.

Would be really disappointed if it was the case, somehow.

Why would lnwr comment on a tfw issue?

 

[DarloRich]

In fairness to lnwr the date has now changed to maybe May maybe December. Make of that as you will.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Now we are fast approaching the end of February 2019. I will make one of my now-very infrequent observations on the matter of the Class 230 units and noting how many contributors to this thread have "taken me to task" over the years on my views on the matter, as each month now goes by without any of these units actually running in commercial service, my original views seem to have been proved correct, despite all optimistic hopes expressed by both Vivarail and by certain contributors to this thread.

One might even ask if the word "innovative", so often bandied out in the early stages of this thread, has now acquired an extra meaning of "late delivery into commercial service"

 

[700007]

Why would lnwr comment on a tfw issue?

Perhaps relevant staff member has contacts at TfW who told them this... ? But a major delay like that would probably be announced through a press release at both WMT and Vivarail as they were supposed to be December 2018 entry.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now we are fast approaching the end of February 2019. I will make one of my now-very infrequent observations on the matter of the Class 230 units and noting how many contributors to this thread have "taken me to task" over the years on my views on the matter, as each month now goes by without any of these units actually running in commercial service, my original views seem to have been proved correct, despite all optimistic hopes expressed by both Vivarail and by certain contributors to this thread.

One might even ask if the word "innovative", so often bandied out in the early stages of this thread, has now acquired an extra meaning of "late delivery into commercial service"

It appears, to be fair, that of the latest generations of new rolling stock the only ones looking likely to be on time are Stadler.

 

[samuelmorris]

Now we are fast approaching the end of February 2019. I will make one of my now-very infrequent observations on the matter of the Class 230 units and noting how many contributors to this thread have "taken me to task" over the years on my views on the matter, as each month now goes by without any of these units actually running in commercial service, my original views seem to have been proved correct, despite all optimistic hopes expressed by both Vivarail and by certain contributors to this thread.

One might even ask if the word "innovative", so often bandied out in the early stages of this thread, has now acquired an extra meaning of "late delivery into commercial service"

On the contrary, there is nothing innovative about being late into service - every other new fleet introduction in the UK bar none is delayed to some degree. Least delayed of all so far seem to be Anglia's Stadler units but I believe even they are slightly behind schedule. CAF's Transpennine & Northern fleets all delayed, Hitachi's Scotrail and LNER fleets delayed, Siemens' Great Northern fleet delayed, and as for Bombardier, or indeed the Porterbrook Flex programme, Vivarail are still coming off pretty well compared to them. All three of WMT's units are now with the TOC, decent progress is being made, compared to everything else out there I think Vivarail's delay is so far 'within tolerance'.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On the contrary, there is nothing innovative about being late into service - every other new fleet introduction in the UK bar none is delayed to some degree. Least delayed of all so far seem to be Anglia's Stadler units but I believe even they are slightly behind schedule. CAF's Transpennine & Northern fleets all delayed, Hitachi's Scotrail and LNER fleets delayed, Siemens' Great Northern fleet delayed, and as for Bombardier, or indeed the Porterbrook Flex programme, Vivarail are still coming off pretty well compared to them. All three of WMT's units are now with the TOC, decent progress is being made, compared to everything else out there I think Vivarail's delay is so far 'within tolerance'.

Of all those new units you mention above, how many of these have "ASLEF reservations" regarding entry into commercial service?

 

[samuelmorris]

None that I'm aware of but there have of course been issues agreeing to training programmes, which is arguably very little to do with the units themselves. Certainly unions have pointed out unsatisfactory items on some of these fleets, such as the windscreens on the 385s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of all those new units you mention above, how many of these have "ASLEF reservations" regarding entry into commercial service?

Almost all new stock requires negotiations with Unions, sometimes including modifications, prior to entry into service.

 

[DelW]

But it was a tweet by LNWR, not Vivarail or anyone else. Why would they have been talking about TfW's units?

Why would lnwr comment on a tfw issue?

As I initially read it in the link provided, the mention of December 2019 was in direct reply to a post which ended with the question: "Speaking of which is there any news of TfW's 230s?" However looking again, it's not clear whether the reply refers to that or to the earlier question at the start of the same post, which is referring to the LNR units. So it could be either.

 

[krus_aragon]

As I initially read it in the link provided, the mention of December 2019 was in direct reply to a post which ended with the question: "Speaking of which is there any news of TfW's 230s?" However looking again, it's not clear whether the reply refers to that or to the earlier question at the start of the same post, which is referring to the LNR units. So it could be either.

That previous tweet (by Chris Howe) didn't show for me when I followed the link on my phone. Reading it now on a desktop machine, and I see that he'd asked about both the LNR and TfW units. So, yes, the answer given could have been to either question (but later tweets seemed to clarify that it was LNR).

 

[Neen Sollars]

230005 delivered yesterday, on test Marston Vale line today.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Almost all new stock requires negotiations with Unions, sometimes including modifications, prior to entry into service.

Can you inform me how the Class 230 units in particular are viewed by ASLEF and of the reservations they may have about this particular unit.

 

[HLE]

Can you inform me how the Class 230 units in particular are viewed by ASLEF and of the reservations they may have about this particular unit.

To be honest Paul I don't think that stuff is released to the public.

 

[route:oxford]

Can you inform me how the Class 230 units in particular are viewed by ASLEF and of the reservations they may have about this particular unit.

You'd be far better off asking ASLEF direct:-

[email protected]

Let us know how you get on.