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Potential Labour Party split (Split now happened).

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tony_mac

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Is there such a requirement?
Hungary, Croatia, Czech Republic, Poland, Denmark, Sweden aren't part of the eurozone
It looks like there is a 'requirement'
https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/euro-area/enlargement-euro-area_en
All EU Member States , except Denmark and the United Kingdom, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. To do this they must meet certain conditions known as 'convergence criteria'.
but, in practice, you can take as long as you like over it
The Treaty does not specify a particular timetable for joining the euro area, but leaves it to Member States to develop their own strategies for meeting the condition for euro adoption.
For example
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:52014SC0341&from=EN
Sweden does not have a target date for adopting the euro. The preparations were stalled by the negative outcome of the referendum of 14 September 2003.
And I don't see any reason why the UK's existing opt-out wouldn't still be available - but trying to look that up is too much effort!
 
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Bletchleyite

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I agree. I resigned my Labour Party membership on the back on Corbyn's handling of Brexit. The party has lurched too far to the left and is unelectable.

Whilst Labour may be even more attractive to 25% of the electorate, and the Conservatives will retain a 25% core of the hard right, it's the 50% in the centre of the spectrum who will decide the next government. Corbyn is not attractive to that 50%. I believe that a centrist party stands a great chance at the next election, with moderate policies, supporting EU membership, rolling back Tory cuts and investing in our social services. Funded by increased taxation - a Sweden+ model!

I would vote for that.
 

Bletchleyite

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The party names didn't appear on my recent local council elections. No one seems to know why.

Probably an error, though up to about 20 years ago they didn't appear as a matter of course - you had to do at least the most basic research as to what the name of your favoured candidate was. You were helped with that with campaign posters which made the name more prominent than the typical simple "Vote Labour" etc you get now.
 
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The constituencies of these MPs who have left really need to have byelections.

Many people voted for these MPs in order to vote for Jeremy Corbyn and help Labour get in to power rather than because they actually liked these MPs. Many people who voted them did so because they were Labour and don't want a new blairite pro EU zionist run party in their constituency. These MPs are even against some or the most popular policies of Labour such as nationalisation. They are just another group of capitalists trying to mess up the country and work for the wealthy elite.

These people are really no different to the Liberal Democrat party. I don't know why they didn't just join them. There is very little difference between them. I am just glad i don't live in one of their constituencies as i would be very annoyed if i did.

There really needs to be a new law that if an MP leaves their party or switches parties then a byelection must be called immediately.
 

Esker-pades

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The constituencies of these MPs who have left really need to have byelections.
If constituents feel as if they want one, they can petition for one.

Many people voted for these MPs in order to vote for Jeremy Corbyn and help Labour get in to power rather than because they actually liked these MPs.
Numbers, please.

Many people who voted them did so because they were Labour and don't want a new blairite pro EU zionist run party in their constituency.
Numbers, please. Further, most of these MPs have been openly pro-EU for many years. The constituents knew who they were voting for.

These MPs are even against some or the most popular policies of Labour such as nationalisation. They are just another group of capitalists trying to mess up the country and work for the wealthy elite.
Here is Mr. Umunna on nationalisation:
...I don’t think you can go around nationalising things without compensation...
Source: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/09/02/chuka-umunna-jeremy-corbyn-nato_n_8076046.html
Note that his objection is much more nuanced than your simplistic outline.

These people are really no different to the Liberal Democrat party. I don't know why they didn't just join them. There is very little difference between them.
I actually agree there.

I am just glad i don't live in one of their constituencies as i would be very annoyed if i did.

There really needs to be a new law that if an MP leaves their party or switches parties then a byelection must be called immediately.
Well, why not start a petition?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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The constituencies of these MPs who have left really need to have byelections.
Theses MPs are all "Remain" and there local areas all voted remain.

IF people are wondering who crossed the floor, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_politicians_who_have_crossed_the_floor
If constituents feel as if they want one, they can petition for one.

This clamour for demanding by-elections is quite humorous, given that the reason being that it goes against the electorate who voted them in when, of course, a number were facing deselection by the CLP - no asking the electorate there!

Also, as OTW has provided the link, there is no precedent for resigning seats in this instance. After all, such people as Dave Nellist or Rupert Allason weren't expected to, and didn't, resign their seats when they were expelled or chose to defect. In fact, with the exception perhaps of some tactical examples (e.g. Carswell and Reckless wanting to push the anti-EU message), the precedent is to continue to serve the constituents irrespective of how they voted and then wait for the next election. DarloRich perhaps sums it up better than anyone....

there is no obligation to do so and out system does not work like that. I suspect those asking simply want these people to disappear and stop causing the leaders of their former party leaders trouble. What is the worry? Surely these upstarts will be easily crushed at the next election. Surely the time until that date gives the political giants in the Labour and Conservative parties the time to utterly discredit these splitters?
 

JamesT

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Can all those who want a by-election in the seats now occupied by the independents please explain why Farage hasn't stood in an Euro by-election since he left UKIP?
I actually agree they should re-stand, although why should someone re-stand if they have left due to "bullying" of any type? Maybe there's a difference between leaving a party to become independent, and leaving to join another?

Since we stopped using FPTP for European Parliament elections, there's no such thing as a by-election. You vote explicitly for a party, if the MEP resigns their seat then the party gets to choose the next person on their list to take it up.
It's certainly arguable that if the seat 'belongs' to UKIP for the span of the parliament, Farage leaving the party should result in him having to resign as an MEP and UKIP choosing someone else.
 

krus_aragon

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They can't - there is no law that allows that.
The cost of each by-election is around £250,000 - is it really a good use of money?
They can still petition (gather names on paper, shout about) for a by-election, even if there's no legal mechanism for them to force one.
 

tony_mac

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They can still petition (gather names on paper, shout about) for a by-election, even if there's no legal mechanism for them to force one.
Well, yes, but I didn't think that was what being discussed - people can obviously petition for whatever they like, but it has no legal meaning.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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If an MP decides to leave their party and follows the current trend into an Independent grouping, their former leader can pontificate all he/she wants about holding a by-election, but the MP in question is now free to tell their former party leader to shove such a statement where the monkey puts the nuts.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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Asking again: Does that include Jared O'Mara and Frank Field?

Well, from my point of view....yes, but it won't happen. I've always thought that anyone who leaves the party under whose banner they were elected should resign at the earliest moment if they cross the floor, but I understand why it is does not happen under our system.
 

DarloRich

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Well, from my point of view....yes, but it won't happen. I've always thought that anyone who leaves the party under whose banner they were elected should resign at the earliest moment if they cross the floor, but I understand why it is does not happen under our system.

It doesnt happen becuase we dont vote for a a party unlike as we do (or did!) for European elections.
 

WelshBluebird

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It doesnt happen becuase we dont vote for a a party unlike as we do (or did!) for European elections.

As I said earlier, technically true but in reality most people do vote for the party. Again this is why you get safe seats and the like. Not because of the MP but because of the colour they wear.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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It doesnt happen becuase we dont vote for a a party unlike as we do (or did!) for European elections.

Yes, I understand that, but as ever it is not always clear and I do think that in my lifetime the leader of the party has become a very much more important figure in voting intentions. It's been happening for a long time (pre Corbyn) and I don't recall that it was so prominent in the 60's and 70's. Oddly enough tho', my father refused to vote Labour during that period because he was a contemporary of Harold Wilson at University and didn't like him.
 

cactustwirly

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Yes, I understand that, but as ever it is not always clear and I do think that in my lifetime the leader of the party has become a very much more important figure in voting intentions. It's been happening for a long time (pre Corbyn) and I don't recall that it was so prominent in the 60's and 70's. Oddly enough tho', my father refused to vote Labour during that period because he was a contemporary of Harold Wilson at University and didn't like him.

Yes this is why Labour are so bad at the moment, they have a completely unelectable Leader, who is also grossly incompentent.
No wonder MPs have quit and set up a new party!
 

Ken H

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Can all those who want a by-election in the seats now occupied by the independents please explain why Farage hasn't stood in an Euro by-election since he left UKIP?
I actually agree they should re-stand, although why should someone re-stand if they have left due to "bullying" of any type? Maybe there's a difference between leaving a party to become independent, and leaving to join another?
you dont have by-elections for the Eu parliament. they are supposed to take the next person from the party list. Why those changing party havent been replaced is another matter
 

tony_mac

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Ken H

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Arglwydd Golau

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I wonder how Corbyn's comment about Shamima Begum will be received by the parents of the children killed in the Manchester bombing of the arena building

Probably not well, but of course she wasn't the bomber in Manchester. Corbyn did say, of course, that she should return to answer questions...quite right too!
 

DynamicSpirit

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It depends which version of principles those Labour MPs had embraced and whether they matched those of their constituents i.e the original values and principles that the party was founded, or Tony Blair's New Labour version which was a lighter type of Thatcher values and principles.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at there, but for what it's worth, my understanding of being principled is (roughly) that you stand up for your genuinely held beliefs, in a reasonably honest way, even when it's disadvantageous for you to do so. That definition applies whatever your beliefs are.

Maybe I've misunderstood you, but your paragraph seems to me like your suggesting that you can only be principled if your beliefs happen to coincide with certain set of viewpoints on the left of the Labour Party?
 

Busaholic

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I never know this first fact. 23 ? Labour mps switched to sdp in 1981. All lost thier seats in the 1983 election.
You never knew the 'fact' because it ain't true! Many did lose their seats, of course, but some didn't e.g. off the top of my head David Owen and John Cartwright. Many LABOUR MPs lost their seats to Tories in the same election, which Margaret Thatcher fought on a 'patriotic, anti-Argentinian' ticket. Prior to that general election Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams, two of the original Gang of Four, had put themselves forward in by-elections and won. History lesson over, all done without the 'aid' of Wikipedia!
 

overthewater

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You never knew the 'fact' because it ain't true! Many did lose their seats, of course, but some didn't e.g. off the top of my head David Owen and John Cartwright. Many LABOUR MPs lost their seats to Tories in the same election, which Margaret Thatcher fought on a 'patriotic, anti-Argentinian' ticket. Prior to that general election Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams, two of the original Gang of Four, had put themselves forward in by-elections and won. History lesson over, all done without the 'aid' of Wikipedia!

It clearly show at least 23 Labour mps switching to SDP in 1981 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_politicians_who_have_crossed_the_floor which part of the fact isnt true?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/25/newsid_2506000/2506367.stm
The Liberal-SDP alliance could boast 30 MPs by the middle of 1982. Most were former Labour MPs - only one Conservative crossed the floor - but the alliance did win a handful of by-elections.
 

overthewater

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I never know this first fact. 23 ? Labour mps switched to sdp in 1981. All lost their seats in the 1983 election.

Which part of the two facts are not true? I have clearly given evidence to prove this, even the BBC says it.
 
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