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First Group: General Discussion

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Bluebirdscot66

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19 Jun 2018
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FirstGroup plc has a recording of a conference call regarding the trading update on 19 feb which of course was the same day it was announced , sure I heard in that that the sale won’t be concluded in this end years figures and a few had asked about the other depots but wasn’t going to comment/ commercial sensitivity and all etc
 
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Volvodart

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The press release for the sale said it would be concluded in the next few months, not weeks!
 
D

darloscott

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KendalKing said:
This is not possible, for a number of reasons including that the new owners needs to apply for either a new operators licence or have an existing operator licence increased.

Then they need to register the services to be operated, which can take upto 8-weeks.

Also, as TGW as said
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Not forgetting registration period is now 10 weeks unless you have a good reason...
 
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winston270twm

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overthewater said:
A straight swap would be allowed, since everything stays the same.
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No it doesn't, there's no straight swap. There's currently one license under First & potentially 3 different buyers. Each buyer will have to apply for their own new license under the NW Traffic Commissioner, see below:

Section 2.1 – New Applications Received

PC2021320 SN
GO-AHEAD XX LTD
Director(s): DAVID BROWN, ELODIE BRIAN
4 MATTHEW PARKER STREET, Go-Ahead Group PLC, LONDON, SW1H 9NP
Operating Centre: QUEENS ROAD DEPOT, QUEENS ROAD, MANCHESTER,
M8 8UT
Authorisation: 165 vehicle(s)
Transport Manager(s): JOHN ROXBURGH, ANDREW WILSON
 
richw

richw

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Once they’re granted the operators disc, it now takes 70 days to register routes. They won’t have any route registrations unless they can push it through under short notice rules.
winston270twm said:
Sure about that?? They can't even register any services until they have a license.
Click to expand...
 
D

darloscott

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I reckon the only way they could get it through quicker would be if First cancelled the routes now so that when they register them they could get them through under a short notice reg due to replacing another service being withdrawn.
 
richw

richw

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darloscott said:
I reckon the only way they could get it through quicker would be if First cancelled the routes now so that when they register them they could get them through under a short notice reg due to replacing another service being withdrawn.
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Cancellations take 70 days too without a genuine reason.
 
C

CM

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overthewater said:
It will still not take 10 weeks..
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Based on what facts? If you're going to post sweeping statments like this then please back it up with some form of evidence, I'd be very much surprised if there wasn't a forum rule regarding things like this.
 
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overthewater

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Let's say it all done and dust with 8, then what? Better still, Go ahead not going to wait 10 weeks nor should it once the deal is completed.. That its the deal is done everything sort but sorry your have to wait 10 weeks to swap it over to a new license to carry on running the exact same routes and times.
 
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carlberry

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overthewater said:
There no longer own the company is a good reason..
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However they do still own the company, they are just selling one depot. They cant just cancel routes, the most that could happen is that Go Ahead could operate them on hire to First. I don't see why people think there's a rush, First's end of year report can say they're selling parts of the Manchester business and at least one depot has already been sold but wont show up in the accounts yet.
 
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carlberry

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overthewater said:
Let's say it all done and dust with 8, then what? Better still, Go ahead not going to wait 10 weeks nor should it once the deal is completed.. That its the deal is done everything sort but sorry your have to wait 10 weeks to swap it over to a new license to carry on running the exact same routes and times.
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I'm sure that some of Go Ahead's management, or whoever they use to do due diligence, will have some idea of the legal requirements connected to the bus industry. (Without Chris Grayling is involved, in which case all bets are off!).
 
I

ivanhoe

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15 Jul 2009
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929
What’s the hurry guys? The sale ,if it took place tomorrow, ain’t going to have a great effect on the Firsts Books,overall. It will however, calm investors that the sale is actually going to go ahead(forgive the pun)
As TGW and other wise Bus Industry experts on here have said, Licensing issues and of course the more important issue of TUPE of staff, have to run their course. A smooth transition over a period of just over 2 months will be best for both companies,staff and Investors. There’s some hard work to do once Go Ahead is in place. Bus operations in Greater Manchester per se are not as straight forward as say Merseyside or Bristol.
 
KendalKing

KendalKing

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Colin M said:
Based on what facts? If you're going to post sweeping statments like this then please back it up with some form of evidence, I'd be very much surprised if there wasn't a forum rule regarding things like this.
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On DVSA website, under operator licencing. Section 2 Application process it states "This may take more than nine weeks. Therefore you are advised not to enter into any contract to run services until you know that your licence has been granted. Take note: Applying for a licence does not give you the right to operate, or continue to operate PSV's"

Also on DVSA website, under Operating local bus service in England it states "There is a statutory notice period of 70 days in England and 56 days in Wales which starts from the day the traffic commissioner accepts your completed application. In England, this is made up of 28 days’ notice to the local authority and 42 days’ notice to the Traffic Commissioner. For community bus operators the required notice period is 14 days in England and 28 days in Wales."
 
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CM

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KendalKing said:
On DVSA website, under operator licencing. Section 2 Application process it states "This may take more than nine weeks. Therefore you are advised not to enter into any contract to run services until you know that your licence has been granted. Take note: Applying for a licence does not give you the right to operate, or continue to operate PSV's"

Also on DVSA website, under Operating local bus service in England it states "There is a statutory notice period of 70 days in England and 56 days in Wales which starts from the day the traffic commissioner accepts your completed application. In England, this is made up of 28 days’ notice to the local authority and 42 days’ notice to the Traffic Commissioner. For community bus operators the required notice period is 14 days in England and 28 days in Wales."
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My reply was aimed at overthewater who was saying it will take less than 10 weeks when it clearly wont. He is the one making random, sweeping statements and posting them as facts when they clearly aren't.
 
G

Goldfish62

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KendalKing said:
On DVSA website, under operator licencing. Section 2 Application process it states "This may take more than nine weeks. Therefore you are advised not to enter into any contract to run services until you know that your licence has been granted. Take note: Applying for a licence does not give you the right to operate, or continue to operate PSV's"

Also on DVSA website, under Operating local bus service in England it states "There is a statutory notice period of 70 days in England and 56 days in Wales which starts from the day the traffic commissioner accepts your completed application. In England, this is made up of 28 days’ notice to the local authority and 42 days’ notice to the Traffic Commissioner. For community bus operators the required notice period is 14 days in England and 28 days in Wales."
Click to expand...
It's the O licence application that wull determine how long completion of the sale takes. The registrations can be done by short notice application as it's merely a change of operator.
 
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overthewater

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Colin M said:
My reply was aimed at overthewater who was saying it will take less than 10 weeks when it clearly wont. He is the one making random, sweeping statements and posting them as facts when they clearly aren't.
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Goldfish62 said:
It's the O licence application that wull determine how long completion of the sale takes. The registrations can be done by short notice application as it's merely a change of operator.
Click to expand...

Which one is it? Its pretty clear everyone can' t be right...
 
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overthewater

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YET I was always on about registrations, never once did I mention O licence. Yet overzealous and some times RUDE members have caused this mess.
 
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