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Northern Saturday strikes - the aftermath

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70014IronDuke

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I realise it is perhaps a little early to draw any definite conclusions, and we will only have anecdotal observations in any case, but after the months of strike action on Saturdays in Northern territory, what are impressions on Saturday loadings looking across the franchise?

Have folks just come back, or are there indications that significant numbers of passengers have been lost permanently, or at least long term?

Perhaps rural routes have been more affected than suburban lines?

(Apologies if any thread on this has been posted - but I haven't seen one.)
 
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LowLevel

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I realise it is perhaps a little early to draw any definite conclusions, and we will only have anecdotal observations in any case, but after the months of strike action on Saturdays in Northern territory, what are impressions on Saturday loadings looking across the franchise?

Have folks just come back, or are there indications that significant numbers of passengers have been lost permanently, or at least long term?

Perhaps rural routes have been more affected than suburban lines?

(Apologies if any thread on this has been posted - but I haven't seen one.)

The trains seem busy enough to me - the Hope Valley rattlers that I passed yesterday were full.
 

fowler9

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I realise it is perhaps a little early to draw any definite conclusions, and we will only have anecdotal observations in any case, but after the months of strike action on Saturdays in Northern territory, what are impressions on Saturday loadings looking across the franchise?

Have folks just come back, or are there indications that significant numbers of passengers have been lost permanently, or at least long term?

Perhaps rural routes have been more affected than suburban lines?

(Apologies if any thread on this has been posted - but I haven't seen one.)
Couldn't comment on yesterday as the Cheshire Lines route was a rail replacement bus. Aside from that the last few Saturdays have been busy.
 

Ken H

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One wonders if any businesses had struggled in tourist areas without the trains to bring them custom. Didnt someone write about a cafe in Edale that ceased trading because of the lack of saturday trade. One wonders how the hellifield station caff survived.
 

Puffing Devil

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45 Minutes by car from the Etihad to Home yesterday. 10 minute walk from my seat to the drive that I paid £9 to park on.

The alternative is a 30-minute walk in the rain from my seat to Piccadilly to meet an hourly service that takes about 40 minutes to get to my local station, Fare £11.50. Collect my car, having paid £3 to park thanks to the new charges from Northern Rail (or walk 7 minutes to the pub which allows free rail parking on account of an occasional pint), drive the 1.5 miles home. Time taken is at best 80 minutes door to door, at worst around 2 hours, or longer if we forgo the walk and get the tram to Piccadilly, as the match day queues are huge.

They've lost me as customer for weekend football trips.
 

yorkie

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I'm surprised at how many have come back, but clearly numbers are down compared to where they should be.
 

PR1Berske

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It may be worth returning to this question month by month. As winter turns to spring, passenger numbers change, and the summer market is different too. Certainly a great chunk of leisure travellers may be lost for good, though until the next ORR figures are released, we won't be entirely certain.
 

Carlisle

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One wonders if any businesses had struggled in tourist areas without the trains to bring them custom. Didnt someone write about a cafe in Edale that ceased trading because of the lack of saturday trade. One wonders how the hellifield station caff survived.
I did see a few notices on station cafe s about reduced hours on Saturdays due to the strikes, maybe some didn’t bother opening at all.
 

6Gman

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45 Minutes by car from the Etihad to Home yesterday. 10 minute walk from my seat to the drive that I paid £9 to park on.

The alternative is a 30-minute walk in the rain from my seat to Piccadilly to meet an hourly service that takes about 40 minutes to get to my local station, Fare £11.50. Collect my car, having paid £3 to park thanks to the new charges from Northern Rail (or walk 7 minutes to the pub which allows free rail parking on account of an occasional pint), drive the 1.5 miles home. Time taken is at best 80 minutes door to door, at worst around 2 hours, or longer if we forgo the walk and get the tram to Piccadilly, as the match day queues are huge.

They've lost me as customer for weekend football trips.

But has that got anything to do with the strike?
 

Puffing Devil

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But has that got anything to do with the strike?

Yes - I used to do the trip by train quite happily and never even considered driving, other than for night games. The traffic for weekend games on the way in is even lighter than midweek. I'm not going back.
 

Bantamzen

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It may be worth returning to this question month by month. As winter turns to spring, passenger numbers change, and the summer market is different too. Certainly a great chunk of leisure travellers may be lost for good, though until the next ORR figures are released, we won't be entirely certain.

Its going to be a given that the 2018-19 numbers will be down, the majority of strikes took place in this period. So it won't be until the 2019-20 figures are out that any long term loss could be qualified.
 

robbeech

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For many (and one example is above) it’ll be the final straw. People will have been forced to find alternatives be that other public transport or taking the car. Many will have been given the opportunity to realise its easier and/or better and/or cheaper so will stick with it. For those who didn’t have a viable option (having to take 2 £20 taxis instead of a £6 rail fare for example) they’ll be back but will have likely noticed a decrease in ease.

Whilst I’m sure many services are as busy as they used to be, I was very surprised yesterday to find most of the trains I caught to be pretty much empty with the exception of the last one the 2030 between Leeds and Harrogate which was full and standing for a couple of stops and then comfortably full for the remainder (and empty last Harrogate).
 

Ken H

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Its going to be a given that the 2018-19 numbers will be down, the majority of strikes took place in this period. So it won't be until the 2019-20 figures are out that any long term loss could be qualified.
so Northern have no idea how many people are travelling on its trains comparing yesterday with Sat 10th march last year?
 

Dr Hoo

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so Northern have no idea how many people are travelling on its trains comparing yesterday with Sat 10th march last year?
I have never seen much evidence of passenger counts on Northern and was not aware that many of their trains have things like continuous weighing.
In any event, Saturday patronage on many routes varies with factors like sporting fixtures and the weather, let alone engineering works.
I wouldn’t expect the picture to become clear for about a year.
 

Starmill

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I was at Chorley station yesterday around midday. There were two ticket office staff both sat selling precious few tickets. The 1218 to Manchester Vic left mostly empty. Numbers undoubtedly well down on what they would have been this weekend one year ago. Later in the day I was on the 1745 Lancaster to Leeds, less than half full. Again a year ago this service would have been standing on a Saturday afternoon.

Things are better than I expected though.

For myself I've switched the tickets I use and am unlikely to go back. I still use the railway though, although I do use Northern much less than before.

Numbers were down significantly for suburban Greater Manchester stations in 17-18. We'll know in another 9 months or so how much they've fallen for 18-19, which ends in a couple of weeks, but I think it's almost certain they'll be significantly down.
 
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Ianigsy

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I was out for a couple of hours yesterday afternoon (to see Duchess of Sutherland pass through Pontefract Baghill) and the loadings on both the Pontefract and Harrogate line trains into Leeds were good. Not a bad sign considering both routes have plenty of (more frequent) bus alternatives.
 

Killingworth

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One wonders if any businesses had struggled in tourist areas without the trains to bring them custom. Didnt someone write about a cafe in Edale that ceased trading because of the lack of saturday trade. One wonders how the hellifield station caff survived.

Apparently the National Trust cafe at Edale was approaching the end of it's 10 year lease at the end of this month and was a very marginal business economically before the strikes. It might have closed anyway but the strikes certainly didn't help to keep it open. The Rambler pub next door to the station reported only 25% of normal business on Saturdays and had to employ fewer staff on those days.

As far as I can see Saturday morning loadings are back to normal, standing room only and if you're not there at Sheffield in good time you may not get aboard. From there your chance of getting on may depend on how many get off. Checking and taking of fares is impossible. Guards dash up and down platforms to squeeze more in. FB_IMG_1552233631708.jpg FB_IMG_1552233620278.jpg
 

61653 HTAFC

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Yesterday I used the train unexpectedly to get to the match, as I was house-sitting for my parents I walked up to the bus stop expecting to catch the bus straight into Huddersfield. The first bus that rounded the corner was heading for Holmfirth via Denby Dale, and I remembered that trains on Saturdays are back so I took that bus instead of the one I'd intended. Loadings on the train were lower than before the strikes, but still a fair few supporters on board including some from Bournemouth!
 

dk1

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It's been the same with rail as far back as I can remember. We have had huge knocks over the years with some of the worst media publicity imaginable. People say (particularly in this instant outbursting social media world) that they will never use the trains again but they always do & everything recovers far quicker than most would expect.
 

Iskra

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As far as I can tell it's back to normal. Loads of people enjoying the train being back to get drunk/dine in Leeds into the evening. Trains have been busy throughout the day Chapeltown-Barnsley-Leeds.

For me, I'll only be using the train for the football half as much now. It's cheaper, quicker and more comfortable to drive. Not drinking saves me money and a hangover.
 

dk1

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For me, I'll only be using the train for the football half as much now. It's cheaper, quicker and more comfortable to drive. Not drinking saves me money and a hangover.
Crikey it must be serious. Theres always money for drink & the hangover is usually worth it :p
 

bengley

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45 Minutes by car from the Etihad to Home yesterday. 10 minute walk from my seat to the drive that I paid £9 to park on.

The alternative is a 30-minute walk in the rain from my seat to Piccadilly to meet an hourly service that takes about 40 minutes to get to my local station, Fare £11.50. Collect my car, having paid £3 to park thanks to the new charges from Northern Rail (or walk 7 minutes to the pub which allows free rail parking on account of an occasional pint), drive the 1.5 miles home. Time taken is at best 80 minutes door to door, at worst around 2 hours, or longer if we forgo the walk and get the tram to Piccadilly, as the match day queues are huge.

They've lost me as customer for weekend football trips.
so nothing to do with the inconvenience of a strike day timetable then, just that car is better than train for you. irrelevant.
 

Ianno87

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so nothing to do with the inconvenience of a strike day timetable then, just that car is better than train for you. irrelevant.

It is relevant. There'll be many people who previously defaulted to the train before the strikes (even if it was already 'worse' than the car alternative) who will now be hard to tempt back again from the convenience of their car.

Hopefully many will drift back over time when realising the grass isn't always truly greener with congestion etc. to consider.
 

Adam0984

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From last Saturday Leeds Station was full of drunks at 16:30/17:00 almost fitting in with the strike timetable of getting the last train home around that time. Mc D’s was awash with drunks etc almost like 22:00 would be
 

underbank

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I used to regularly use the trains for "fun" weekend trips at least monthly, sometimes every week. But due to being in Northern-land, with the Saturday strikes and frankly pathetic unreliable Sunday services, I only used the train once last year, and that was last July. Don't foresee even bothering to look at journey options at weekends for quite a while until they sort themselves out re Sundays, get the new stock in use, etc., so maybe start thinking about using the train maybe next year.
 

Killingworth

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Northern's May timetable has yet to appear. Network Rail work must be ready by now. There should be enough new trains to run it by now with Pacers around to plug short term gaps. Crew training for May must be well underway. Is this an after effect of the dispute - one that is suspended and not resolved?

It has the potential to flare up again at any time. Introduction of new trains wasn't just to make passengers feel better but to save on operational costs. We aren't out of the woods yet. Until we know the new trains will be allowed to run, and under what conditions, the RMT's hand rests on Northern's ability to operate the new trains as it might wish.

Aftermath is still optimistic. We're still at the Armistice stage, like 11th November 1918. The end of that war wasn't until 28th June 1919 with the Treaty of Versailles! I hope our peace treaty comes a bit quicker so we can all see the way ahead with more confidence. Until RMT declare an end to the dispute we're unable to see the final results and truly quantify all aspects of the aftermath.
 

Puffing Devil

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so nothing to do with the inconvenience of a strike day timetable then, just that car is better than train for you. irrelevant.

My strike day timetable was NO TRAINS. Which meant I was forced to find another route to the footy. And the grass was indeed greener.
 

LowLevel

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Northern's May timetable has yet to appear. Network Rail work must be ready by now. There should be enough new trains to run it by now with Pacers around to plug short term gaps. Crew training for May must be well underway. Is this an after effect of the dispute - one that is suspended and not resolved?

It has the potential to flare up again at any time. Introduction of new trains wasn't just to make passengers feel better but to save on operational costs. We aren't out of the woods yet. Until we know the new trains will be allowed to run, and under what conditions, the RMT's hand rests on Northern's ability to operate the new trains as it might wish.

Aftermath is still optimistic. We're still at the Armistice stage, like 11th November 1918. The end of that war wasn't until 28th June 1919 with the Treaty of Versailles! I hope our peace treaty comes a bit quicker so we can all see the way ahead with more confidence. Until RMT declare an end to the dispute we're unable to see the final results and truly quantify all aspects of the aftermath.

How the trains are operated in the future is one thing but it is a fact that they were always planned to be crew operated by driver and guard on introduction and I believe training is occurring on that basis. I doubt you'll see any DOO trains (DCO if you must) on Northern this year (if at all). They're fully capable of being crew operated.
 
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