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Northern Saturday strikes - the aftermath

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70014IronDuke

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I wonder if those services which, in the strike, offered some services, or a decentish bus replacement, fared better than those that offered next to nothing.
IIRC, I noticed that Leeds - Lancaster was often totally wiped out, with no RRBs, at least on some of the latter strike days. S&C RRB was also very poor on some days.
Such a total non-service cannot help customer confidence, I fear.
 
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furnessvale

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It's been the same with rail as far back as I can remember. We have had huge knocks over the years with some of the worst media publicity imaginable. People say (particularly in this instant outbursting social media world) that they will never use the trains again but they always do & everything recovers far quicker than most would expect.
I cannot help but wonder just what traffic figures would be, freight as well as passenger, if we hadn't had these "huge knocks" over the years.

However, I would wager that all railway trades unions would have more members today than we currently have if those knocks had not occurred.
 

gazzaa2

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I realise it is perhaps a little early to draw any definite conclusions, and we will only have anecdotal observations in any case, but after the months of strike action on Saturdays in Northern territory, what are impressions on Saturday loadings looking across the franchise?

Have folks just come back, or are there indications that significant numbers of passengers have been lost permanently, or at least long term?

Perhaps rural routes have been more affected than suburban lines?

(Apologies if any thread on this has been posted - but I haven't seen one.)

My route from Lime Street to Manchester via Warrington was starting to pick up again and now it's closed again through most of March.
 

Bantamzen

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you are braver than me! i wouldn't want to drive to the match. i need a few beers!

I guess its easier then your team has hundreds of millions to pay for wins, erm I mean players. For me, tipping off the Ilkley-Bradford FS square requires several beers to be consumed before heading off to Valley Parade to see which Bradford City has turned up, the bad one, the terrible one, or the "sod it let's head back to the pub long before the final whistle" one. Away days are even worse! :D
 

Puffing Devil

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Taking a 13yo with me reduces the drinking opportunity. However, once he turns 18 the train may again have an attraction.

Going to see my "home" team of Grimsby certainly requires a train and a quantity of beer!
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Taking a 13yo with me reduces the drinking opportunity. However, once he turns 18 the train may again have an attraction.

Going to see my "home" team of Grimsby certainly requires a train and a quantity of beer!
18? I think it may be a rather lower age than that!
 

AndyHudds

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Taking a 13yo with me reduces the drinking opportunity. However, once he turns 18 the train may again have an attraction.

Going to see my "home" team of Grimsby certainly requires a train and a quantity of beer!

I don't understand why people do this. Do you just want to watch top football? If Grimsby Town is your team, then Grimsby is your team. Do you not go when they are in the area? Sorry veering off topic here. I support Huddersfield and I have never once contemplated watching another team, although granted I've always lived within striking distance of Huddersfield.
 

Iskra

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I don't understand why people do this. Do you just want to watch top football? If Grimsby Town is your team, then Grimsby is your team. Do you not go when they are in the area? Sorry veering off topic here. I support Huddersfield and I have never once contemplated watching another team, although granted I've always lived within striking distance of Huddersfield.

What’s wrong with watching other teams? I’m a Leeds season ticket holder but I’ve been to 5 Sheffield United Matches and 2 Wednesday matches this season. What’s wrong with that? I like football.
 

Old Yard Dog

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Nice to make the NT 1850 Helsby to Ellesmere Port PSUL working on my way back to Little Sutton after watching Bradford's 2-0 win at Ashton United. The connections between the 38 bus, Metrolink and the TfW from Piccadilly worked well.

Four people made the tight 8 min connection at Helsby, the TfW train to Llandudno being 4 mins late. Two got off at Ince & Elton. The 1909 MR Ellesmere Port to Hooton was almost as empty with no onwards trains between Hooton and Rock Ferry.

I had started the day in the French Alps and flew to Manchester from Turin. The plane landed more or less on time but was held for ages on the tarmac before being allowed to dock. Thus I missed my first kick off since Priory away on September 2nd 1989 when nobody in Eastwood knew where the ground was! This is not counting Barrow away on 1st March 2005 when I ended up at Rochdale vs Grimsby instead as the M6 was blocked. However I did at least hear the lady referee blow the kick-off whistle from outside the ground.

I am beginning to hate Manchester Airport. Every time I land there, there is some delay or other so my good lady has to pay £9.50 for parking for more than an hour when she comes to pick me up. And the rip off merchants now impose a £3-£4 drop off charge on the outward journey. Rant over.
 

Puffing Devil

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I don't understand why people do this. Do you just want to watch top football? If Grimsby Town is your team, then Grimsby is your team. Do you not go when they are in the area? Sorry veering off topic here. I support Huddersfield and I have never once contemplated watching another team, although granted I've always lived within striking distance of Huddersfield.

I left Grimsby when I was 18 and moved to Manchester at 22, when I adopted Man City as a local team. At the time they were far from the tops and even played Grimsby when they shared spots in Division 2 - Grimsby peaking, City declining. I still travel to see Grimsby when they are in the area, though I spend more time with City as it's my son's first and only team and the ground is certainly more accessible (by car, which was the point of this thread).
 

prod_pep

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I used both the 1328 LIV-BGE and 1343 BGE-LIV (both 323 services) last Saturday 09/03/19 and was very surprised by how well used they both were. Almost all seats were taken on the return journey and it was much busier than the one time I previously travelled on this service on a weekday.
 
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I noticed the first week on my local line was pretty quiet but since then it's become much busier. Hopefully not too much damage was done!
 

AndyHudds

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What’s wrong with watching other teams? I’m a Leeds season ticket holder but I’ve been to 5 Sheffield United Matches and 2 Wednesday matches this season. What’s wrong with that? I like football.

Bit of a philanderer I see!!
 

bunnahabhain

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I put an extra call in at Edale on 1L14 the other week to assist a couple with a young baby in returning to their car having called at Chinley at the same time as the Northern stopper. On arrival at Edale there were a good 40 passengers or more on the station, I left behind about 10 for the stopper who wanted local shacks. So certainly the ramblers seem to be back in what appear to be usual numbers. I passed a few full and standing Hope Valley stoppers as well.
 

Killingworth

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I put an extra call in at Edale on 1L14 the other week to assist a couple with a young baby in returning to their car having called at Chinley at the same time as the Northern stopper. On arrival at Edale there were a good 40 passengers or more on the station, I left behind about 10 for the stopper who wanted local shacks. So certainly the ramblers seem to be back in what appear to be usual numbers. I passed a few full and standing Hope Valley stoppers as well.

That's another thing. The Northern stoppers need extra carriages, on Saturday mornings in particular. When TPE or EMT services are badly delayed or cancelled they get overwhelmed, especially if a single Pacer. With 3 car TPE services often packed too full to comfortably board some are opting to take the slow train as it should beat the following more relaxed EMT service. With choice between Sheffield and Manchester I'd opt for their 158 units.

Loadings on all 3 operator's trains are growing more strongly than when estimates to justify the Hope Valley Capacity Scheme were made.
 

bunnahabhain

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That's another thing. The Northern stoppers need extra carriages, on Saturday mornings in particular. When TPE or EMT services are badly delayed or cancelled they get overwhelmed, especially if a single Pacer. With 3 car TPE services often packed too full to comfortably board some are opting to take the slow train as it should beat the following more relaxed EMT service. With choice between Sheffield and Manchester I'd opt for their 158 units.

Loadings on all 3 operator's trains are growing more strongly than when estimates to justify the Hope Valley Capacity Scheme were made.
In theory the stopper and the EMT service should arrive at about the same time into ManPic, it doesn't help that Northern are encouraging folk onto their service through Northern Only and AP tickets but then cannot honour them as they haven't the capacity.
 

Kite159

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In an ideal world the Northern stoppers would be a pair of 150/2s (unless there is any short platforms along the Hope Valley which can't handle 4 coaches).

Or a pair of units without gangway with an assistant ticket examiner in the leading unit for revenue purposes
 

Gems

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Most people are back, we knew they would be, and most people are happy that the trains will be fully staffed. The period between New Year and Easter is traditionally quiet for shoppers and trippers. I think any fall off in shoppers is probably more to do with the policies of this daft government than any strike. And the weather being a bit weird at the moment isn't helping.
As for football supporters, They're back as well more the pity. Although Bradford fans are generally okay. They don't have much to cheer about these days so the train to take them home after another defeat must be a welcome sight I suppose.

As for May's timetable. Hold on to your hats, that's all I will say. There is mounting evidence it could be as bad as if not worse than last year. Driver training started on the new trains and has now been stopped again. Rumour has it one of them went into reverse instead of forward. Also there is still a massive shortage of train conductors at some depots, anyone want a job?
 

_toommm_

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In an ideal world the Northern stoppers would be a pair of 150/2s (unless there is any short platforms along the Hope Valley which can't handle 4 coaches).

Or a pair of units without gangway with an assistant ticket examiner in the leading unit for revenue purposes

4 car 150s are fine for the Hope Valley - they did run like that for a time when the hourly all day service was introduced
 

Killingworth

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4 car 150s are fine for the Hope Valley - they did run like that for a time when the hourly all day service was introduced

Platform lengthening is needed at Grindleford, Bamford and Hathersage to allow that. Its due by November when Pacers should have gone. At present even a 150 and 142 can't stop at Hathersage westbound unless the rear unit is locked out. 2 x 150s do occasionally run.

From memory Grindleford and Hope have the length but need parts being brought back into use. Hathersage needs more work.
 

Plethora

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45 Minutes by car from the Etihad to Home yesterday. 10 minute walk from my seat to the drive that I paid £9 to park on.

The alternative is a 30-minute walk in the rain from my seat to Piccadilly to meet an hourly service that takes about 40 minutes to get to my local station, Fare £11.50. Collect my car, having paid £3 to park thanks to the new charges from Northern Rail (or walk 7 minutes to the pub which allows free rail parking on account of an occasional pint), drive the 1.5 miles home. Time taken is at best 80 minutes door to door, at worst around 2 hours, or longer if we forgo the walk and get the tram to Piccadilly, as the match day queues are huge.

They've lost me as customer for weekend football trips.

The obvious thing to do is walk to Ashburys Station which is 10 mins down the road.
 

Puffing Devil

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The obvious thing to do is walk to Ashburys Station which is 10 mins down the road.

Great idea. If it wasn't a 20 minute walk away then a train to Piccadilly where we need to get a connecting service home. Next thought?
 

al78

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Great idea. If it wasn't a 20 minute walk away then a train to Piccadilly where we need to get a connecting service home. Next thought?

Use a bicycle for the journey to the station. Walking for 30 minutes or 1.5 miles is boring, why spend half an hour doing that when you can cycle it in 10 minutes.
 

Kite159

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Use a bicycle for the journey to the station. Walking for 30 minutes or 1.5 miles is boring, why spend half an hour doing that when you can cycle it in 10 minutes.

That is assuming that the Etihad stadium has enough bike racks
 

Puffing Devil

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Use a bicycle for the journey to the station. Walking for 30 minutes or 1.5 miles is boring, why spend half an hour doing that when you can cycle it in 10 minutes.

Alternatively, you could pop round every other weekend and chauffeur us to the ground. That would be cheaper and easier for me.
 

BurtonM

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Haven't been using the trains on Saturdays since the strikes ended because I need to take a bike to work. I finish at 8:30pm and it's been RRBs after 5pm. When I have been on them they've not been heavily loaded as people just default to TPE (Stalybridge has a choice).
 

yorksrob

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Platform lengthening is needed at Grindleford, Bamford and Hathersage to allow that. Its due by November when Pacers should have gone. At present even a 150 and 142 can't stop at Hathersage westbound unless the rear unit is locked out. 2 x 150s do occasionally run.

From memory Grindleford and Hope have the length but need parts being brought back into use. Hathersage needs more work.

Wouldn't access/egress through the guards door be a cheaper workaround.
 

Killingworth

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Wouldn't access/egress through the guards door be a cheaper workaround.
Probably, but would need two guards on every train (which is starting to happen) unless using 150/2s. However there's a rolling programme to lengthen platforms across the North by November 2019. Many seem to be restoration of existing platforms where parts were taken out of normal use in the days of railway decline, so not expensive work.
 
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