• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Yellow Peril

Status
Not open for further replies.

GH 12 34

Member
Joined
9 Mar 2019
Messages
11
Anyone Know....

Three Banner Repeater lookalike symbols, one Horizontal, one Diagonal, one Vertical.

If they referred to Banner Repeaters then there wouldn't be the Vertical.

Anyone know what these three symbols refer to pls?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Ben.A.98

Member
Joined
13 Feb 2013
Messages
227
I don't have a copy of a yellow peril to reference to at hand, but my immediate thoughts are that it is a three state banner repeater,
1. Arm horizontal - signal on
2. Arm diagonal - signal showing yellow
3. Arm diagonal and banner lit green vice white - signal showing green

Looking at Aviemore by any chance?
 

GH 12 34

Member
Joined
9 Mar 2019
Messages
11
I don't have a copy of a yellow peril to reference to at hand, but my immediate thoughts are that it is a three state banner repeater,
1. Arm horizontal - signal on
2. Arm diagonal - signal showing yellow
3. Arm diagonal and banner lit green vice white - signal showing green

Looking at Aviemore by any chance?
Thanks.

I thought that myself, but a three state banner repeater doesn't have a vertical position. It's a drawing.
 

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
9,398
Location
UK
Its known as the 'screwhead' symbol.

Signals have :

Symbol
Prefix
Number
Suffix

The symbol for a three stage banner is a White circle with a black stripe down the middle. The symbols used in the table A diagrams, NR route diagrams, local route maps tend to reflect the signal symbol or have a linked key.

If you have a picture it would be helpful :)
 
Last edited:

GH 12 34

Member
Joined
9 Mar 2019
Messages
11
Its known as the 'screwhead' symbol.

Signals have :

Symbol
Prefix
Number
Suffix

The symbol for a three stage banner is a White circle with a black stripe down the middle. The symbols used in the table A diagrams, NR route diagrams, local route maps tend to reflect the signal symbol or have a linked key.

If you have a picture it would be helpful :)


Cheers me Dears !!
 

Jonfun

Established Member
Joined
16 Mar 2007
Messages
1,254
Location
North West
I don't have one to hand to check, but is it not signal aspects? Ie circle with horizontal bar the red aspect, yellow aspect circle with diagonal, green with vertical? So a three aspect main signal would be three circles with horizontal on the bottom, a diagonal above, vertical on top?
 

Jonfun

Established Member
Joined
16 Mar 2007
Messages
1,254
Location
North West
I know the exact ones you mean !! Can't find the other map with them on :/

I had a yellow peril lying around but I threw it out the other day, it sounds like what the OP's asking but without seeing a pic I couldn't confirm.
 

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
9,398
Location
UK
Na, from your description I know exactly what you mean. For the life of me I can't find any old maps. All mine are the more modern ones. I haven't seen a yellow peril for years. I wish I could remember the bloody map I have with the signal symbols on. Table A doesn't have signals and my signal map ( the one posted) is very modern. My personal maps are all coloured now.

Its gonna bug me all evening but I am sure what the OP wants is your answer :)
 
Last edited:

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,632
Location
Gateway to the South West
I don't have one to hand to check, but is it not signal aspects? Ie circle with horizontal bar the red aspect, yellow aspect circle with diagonal, green with vertical? So a three aspect main signal would be three circles with horizontal on the bottom, a diagonal above, vertical on top?
Depending on the drawing and the physical item 'on the ground', the three circles could be superimposed (so, on the plan, looking like an incomplete star in a circle) for those signals where the three colours all show in the same aspect (not all at once, obviously!). You probably know that; just some extra info for those that don't.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,265
Google is your friend, especially if you know how to do site-specific searches and which site to specify...

https://www.google.com/search?q="banner+repeater"+site:railsigns.uk
Well yes, and that site was already linked a few posts back.

But I thought it was clear from the first question and the thread title that the question was about a pictorial representation on a yellow peril drawing, not what the prototype looks like, or the symbol on its supporting post. Railsigns doesn’t actually cover that type of detail for use on a typical schematic drawing.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,265
Well I am confused
The OP described the way a 3 aspect signal is drawn on a track plan. But later, in post #11, a coloured version of a four aspect signal was presented in explanation. But when drawn in black and white these signal symbols, consisting of 2, 3 or 4 circles in a row, use the position of the lines to denote the possible colours of the signal.
 

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
9,398
Location
UK
Standard 4 aspect signal ?

The pic I posted is a 4 aspect and was taken from the London Bridge project booklet

The one below is pulled from the tinterweb and shows a 3 aspect/black and white diagram.

plan.gif


4, 3 and 2 aspect. Banners, distants, autos and controlled signals

Screenshot (46)_LI.jpg
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,866
Location
Airedale
Is a Yellow Peril one of those resignalling diagrams with a yellow cover?

If so, they use(d) standard signalling diagram conventions for c/l signals (and for semaphores).

@Tomnick it's not correct for UK practice (you can have YGY though).
 

Tomnick

Established Member
Joined
10 Jun 2005
Messages
5,826
Is a Yellow Peril one of those resignalling diagrams with a yellow cover?

If so, they use(d) standard signalling diagram conventions for c/l signals (and for semaphores).

@Tomnick it's not correct for UK practice (you can have YGY though).
I perhaps should have asked whether it’s supposed to represent UK practice ;) . I’m just curious whether that arrangement’s actually used somewhere else in the world, or whether it’s just a pretty fundamental error on the part of whoever drew the diagram.
 

K.o.R

Member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
658
So, to recap:

OP had a track diagram with some markers representing signals, similar to the one in #11, and was wondering what the specific parts of them meant.

As it turns out, they show a colour light signal, and use directional lines as well as colours to distinguish the different colour lamps.

Is the item mentioned in #13 actually relevant to the answer? Or was it an aside showing how there could be a "vertical" position banner repeater, at least in sign form, if not as an actual signal?
 

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
9,398
Location
UK
Green in the middle, yellow on top! Is it related to British signalling or elsewhere?

It's just a map I pulled from the place we call home. It was from a research site about interlocking and just a diagrammatic example. With the advent of LEDs I barely pay attention any more as to what position the pretty lights are in. We have single heads that show all aspects :/ As pdeaves states. They could be superimposed, although I think that would be confusing.*edit* I found one in a document from 1988

On the Up Mid Kent at Clock House on the bottom diagram the signal shows as a 3 aspect. The actual signal 'on the ground' is a single head LED, capable of showing a 3 aspect sequence. I see three little circles to represent the sequence and instantly understand what can be shown. If I see 4 little circles I understand it as a 4 aspect. For me, that's all that matters when I look at the map. I have never really understood it to represent what is actually 'on the ground' just a pictogram/ideogram/icon to represent the signal.

The 'transition signals' that can show both a 3 or 4 aspect sequence aren't represented differently. Limit of shunts aren't represented differently or at least I can't figure it out because it's inconsistent (number of dots ?)

You should see the signal map of London Bridge o_O
 
Last edited:

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
9,398
Location
UK
So, to recap:

OP had a track diagram with some markers representing signals, similar to the one in #11, and was wondering what the specific parts of them meant.

Yes. #11 is what the answer to the OP was.

As it turns out, they show a colour light signal, and use directional lines as well as colours to distinguish the different colour lamps.

As I understand it. The number of circles is the sequence (2/3/4 aspect) The lines don't show exact position but represent what is possible to be seen at that signal. LEDs have removed any representation of actual signal/light position. It probably did but you would need a technical expert or historian for that precise information.
Answer in the document linked below.

Is the item mentioned in #13 actually relevant to the answer? Or was it an aside showing how there could be a "vertical" position banner repeater, at least in sign form, if not as an actual signal?

Yes. #2 thought it could be a 3 stage banner and then the OP thought that a vertical line wouldn't be possible. However, they are represented as a vertical line on the signal plates so could.. be represented like that on a diagram. Annoyingly we don't have any three stages on our patch so I don't have any maps with them on to actually see how they are represented on a signal diagram. My map in #22 does show banners but none are three stage ones.

or whether it’s just a pretty fundamental error on the part of whoever drew the diagram.

I challenge you to find a Network Rail map that doesn't contain errors :)
 
Last edited:

Supercoss

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2016
Messages
299
When the idea of ‘ 3 state’ banner repeaters was first mooted the vertical line was to be the 3rd state
1 horizontal ‘on’ danger aspect ahead
2 45 degrees ‘off’ yellow or double yellow aspect ahead

3 vertical off signal green aspect ahead
The vertical line was not used instead green backlit option chosen
‘Screw head’ Symbol used on ID plates


upload_2019-3-16_16-33-5.jpeg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top