TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[sjpowermac]

From the rumours circulating my depot it appears they just cant get these first couple of sets through fault free mileage. Training has been put off on Mk5's and we dont know when it will start again. I don't think we will see these trains in service anytime soon.

Many thanks for the info. What a disappointment all round. It certainly seems that ‘May’ is off the menu, and ‘July’ begins to look dubious.

Pic below of 68028 at York with MID to Scarborough on 4th February. I hope the testing starts again soon, I’m running out of pics to try and cheer us up

I hope if any of the gents in the picture are on the forum they don’t ask for modelling fees for appearing in the shot

 

[realnovice]

Surely CAF is going to be getting a terrible rep over this. These were desperately needed and were supposed to be in service quickly instead it looks like it could be ages before they are. The 802s will be in service before these the way its going!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The problem was initially said to be related to couplings between vehicles (and affecting all CAF stock, or at least all new CAF stock), but is now apparently to do with ASDO? Or are there two separate issues affecting Mk5a stock and the 195/331 fleets?

 

[Spartacus]

The problem was initially said to be related to couplings between vehicles (and affecting all CAF stock, or at least all new CAF stock), but is now apparently to do with ASDO? Or are there two separate issues affecting Mk5a stock and the 195/331 fleets?

Two separate issues from what I can gather.

 

[sjpowermac]

Does anyone know how accurate the stop position of the train has to be for ASDO to function correctly? The reason that I ask is that unlike for most train types I’ve not seen any ‘Nova Trains Stop Here’ boards appearing at stations.

On the 4th February MID to Scarborough run an engineer alighted the 68, walked a short way down the platform and then held an illuminated batton, presumably to indicate the correct stop position. Or at least that’s what the procedure looked like, I’m happy to be corrected.

To my non-engineering eye, everything appeared to work well that evening. The destination appeared on the front (and rear!) of the 68, carriage destination indicators worked, information screens in the coaches worked. The train certainly appeared to ‘know’ where it was!

 

[whhistle]

View attachment 60419

I didn't realise the 68's had a destination screen.
Do all 68's have this?
Sorry for the OT.

 

[Ben Bow]

Does anyone know how accurate the stop position of the train has to be for ASDO to function correctly? The reason that I ask is that unlike for most train types I’ve not seen any ‘Nova Trains Stop Here’ boards appearing at stations.

On the 4th February MID to Scarborough run an engineer alighted the 68, walked a short way down the platform and then held an illuminated batton, presumably to indicate the correct stop position. Or at least that’s what the procedure looked like, I’m happy to be corrected.

To my non-engineering eye, everything appeared to work well that evening. The destination appeared on the front (and rear!) of the 68, carriage destination indicators worked, information screens in the coaches worked. The train certainly appeared to ‘know’ where it was!

I believe its very tight, perhaps even down to a metre. It's also the case that each Nova train has a slightly different system, and the 185's are different again. The beacons for 185's are installed now at most stations where TPE stop and can be seen fixed to a sleeper between the rails, shortly after the platform starts, they are yellow 'bars' about 40x5cm.

 

[JonathanH]

I didn't realise the 68's had a destination screen.
Do all 68's have this?
Sorry for the OT.

Fitted to 68019-68032 specifically for TPE work.

 

[Erniescooper]

397 and Mk5a are fitted with the Complete ASDO system supplied by EKE and explained in this video

 

[Erniescooper]

Fitted to 68019-68032 specifically for TPE work.

68033 and 68034 have full CAF mods as well and will act as spares for the TPE fleet

 

[The_Train]

Should have gone for HST sets instead

 

[Erniescooper]

Should have gone for HST sets instead

Because the project to fit HST sets with automatic doors is going so swimmingly?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was going to be 442s with one of the bids, wasn't it? Of course that seems to be going "really well" too...

Siemens, anyone?

 

[sjpowermac]

I believe its very tight, perhaps even down to a metre. It's also the case that each Nova train has a slightly different system, and the 185's are different again. The beacons for 185's are installed now at most stations where TPE stop and can be seen fixed to a sleeper between the rails, shortly after the platform starts, they are yellow 'bars' about 40x5cm.

Many thanks for that, I hadn’t realised about the beacons, I’d assumed it was all GPS based. I’ll have a look out for the kit.

 

[sjpowermac]

397 and Mk5a are fitted with the Complete ASDO system supplied by EKE and explained in this video

Many thanks indeed for the video link, that’s really interesting. I wonder if the ASDO kit was tested for the first time on the runs over the Pennines. It would seem a bit wasteful to load stations into the system that are not on the intended route. Thank you again for the info, greatly appreciated.

 

[sjpowermac]

Because the project to fit HST sets with automatic doors is going so swimmingly?

I think ‘slow progress’ is the best gloss that can be put on the ScotRail HSTs

I’m sure the Nova 3 is going to be fantastic for both passengers and enthusiasts alike. I know I’m looking forward to seeing four Class 68 hauled trains through York within the space of 20 minutes each hour when this all kicks off

Nova 3 is an interesting piece of kit too with all that interface between the loco and stock.

 

[The_Train]

Because the project to fit HST sets with automatic doors is going so swimmingly?

I was only joking but as you've chosen to get so defensive it could be argued that despite the HST plug door work not going well, it is still going a lot better than TPEs efforts to get these MK5 sets into service.

I've defended TPE in the past but to be quite frank if they have to announce another delay to getting these into service it is going to be pretty embarrassing for them. And not to forget the poor customers who have to endure the 185s - I caught 2 of these earlier in the week and on both occasions it was standing room only

 

[The_Train]

I think ‘slow progress’ is the best gloss that can be put on the ScotRail HSTs

Slow progress is of course better than no progress

 

[Fez14]

It’s very shocking that brand new trains can’t run fault free, CAF should be paying some sort of compensation for faulty product

 

[sjpowermac]

Slow progress is of course better than no progress

Haha! Good point, well made

Let’s hope that the pause in testing is allowing engineers the time to put things right with the Nova 3 sets and that testing will resume soon

In the meantime, driver training/refresher trips continue. Here’s 68020 at a rainy York this morning.

 

[JonathanH]

Surely CAF is going to be getting a terrible rep over this. These were desperately needed and were supposed to be in service quickly instead it looks like it could be ages before they are. The 802s will be in service before these the way its going!

Once 802s are in service, can the 185s which would otherwise have gone off lease be used doubled up to eliminate the need for the 68+Mk5 sets? Do the numbers work?

Seems like it could be a very attractive option.

 

[Ben Bow]

Once 802s are in service, can the 185s which would otherwise have gone off lease be used doubled up to eliminate the need for the 68+Mk5 sets? Do the numbers work?

Seems like it could be a very attractive option.

69 mk. 5 coaches replacing 66 185 vehicles. But 22 185's doubled up would only give 11 "trains" as opposed to the 13 rakes of mk.5's.

 

[JonathanH]

69 mk. 5 coaches replacing 66 185 vehicles. But 22 185's doubled up would only give 11 "trains" as opposed to the 13 rakes of mk.5's.

Yes, maybe it is a bit too tight. However, not all 13 Mk 5 rakes would be in service at any one time. If intended availability is 12 (6 Liverpool-Scarborough, 6 Manchester Airport-Middlesbrough) from 13 and it is accepted there is some maintenance cover already in the 29 185s staying on for Hull, Cleethorpes and locals it sounds like they just need to find some way of splitting a train or two at York to run a single unit north of there and 185s could do it.

Having said that, four successive Liverpool to Scarborough services have started from Manchester this morning so I appreciate timings are tight on these trains and splitting won't really work.

 

[sjpowermac]

Yes, maybe it is a bit too tight. However, not all 13 Mk 5 rakes would be in service at any one time. If intended availability is 12 (6 Liverpool-Scarborough, 6 Manchester Airport-Middlesbrough) from 13 and it is accepted there is some maintenance cover already in the 29 185s staying on for Hull, Cleethorpes and locals it sounds like they just need to find some way of splitting a train or two at York to run a single unit north of there and 185s could do it.

Having said that, four successive Liverpool to Scarborough services have started from Manchester this morning so I appreciate timings are tight on these trains and splitting won't really work.

Are you suggesting this as a short term fix or a long term proposal?

The TPE franchise is pretty clear about the introduction of ‘IC100’ trains, what have become known as ‘Nova 3’.

The restricted track layout at York would make splitting a non-starter anyhow.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Having said that, four successive Liverpool to Scarborough services have started from Manchester this morning so I appreciate timings are tight on these trains and splitting won't really work.

This was due to flooding at Newton-le-Willows

Perhaps TPE could use some Mk3s to plug the gap if there are any going spare... Oh hang on...

PS Northern TPE seems to be in meltdown this afternoon due to flooding between Stalyvegas and Victoria now - and it is still raining. One train (9M10 seems to have been held at Leeds for around 80 mins. I expect train and crew diagrams are in a bit of a mess as a result of all this.

 

[JonathanH]

Are you suggesting this as a short term fix or a long term proposal?

The TPE franchise is pretty clear about the introduction of ‘IC100’ trains, what have become known as ‘Nova 3’.

The restricted track layout at York would make splitting a non-starter anyhow.

Continuing to run (single) 185s on these two routes is obviously already the short term fix for the commitment to introduce the 68+Mk5 trains.

Obviously, it must be the long term plan to use 68+Mk5 rather than 185s but if there was an indefinite delay then double 185s might be a fallback.

I get that splitting Scarborough trains at York is a non-starter - is it any easier with Middlesbrough trains on the western side of the station?

 

[sjpowermac]

Continuing to run (single) 185s on these two routes is obviously already the short term fix for the commitment to introduce the 68+Mk5 trains.

Obviously, it must be the long term plan to use 68+Mk5 rather than 185s but if there was an indefinite delay then double 185s might be a fallback.

I get that splitting Scarborough trains at York is a non-starter - is it any easier with Middlesbrough trains on the western side of the station?

There’s a bit of variation hour to hour but the Man Air to Middlesbrough usually arrives around xx35, often on platform 11. The Middlesbrough to Man Air arrives around xx49, sometimes being the next train to use platform 11. I’ve got no train planning or diagramming knowledge, but your idea seems to work there, provided timekeeping is good...

Fingers crossed though that the Nova 3 appears sometime soon

 

[Pete_uk]

Any info on what the problems with the couplers are? Is it inter mk5 or loco -mk5?

 

[DunfordBridge]

Any short-formed HSTs going spare from GWR?

 

[ainsworth74]

Any info on what the problems with the couplers are? Is it inter mk5 or loco -mk5?

I'm not aware of coupler issues on the Mk5s? It's door related was the impression I was under. You may be thinking of the units that CAF are producing?