First Group: General Discussion

[Goldfish62]

I should say I was not directing any disgruntess to your good self! You have no done anything whatsoever, I tip my hat if any confusion has happened over that point.

Ah, no worries my friend.

 

[CM]

YET I was always on about registrations, never once did I mention O licence. Yet overzealous and some times RUDE members have caused this mess.

You do realise that they will need to apply for an O-License, which will then have to be granted by the TC for that area before they can register services don't you? It makes no difference wether or not you mentioned O-Licenses or not as they can't do anything until they get one.

 

[overthewater]

Why has it gone back in again?


From 2 weeks ago:
PC2021320 SN GO-AHEAD XX LTD Director(s): DAVID BROWN, ELODIE BRIAN 4 MATTHEW PARKER STREET, Go-Ahead Group PLC, LONDON, SW1H 9NP Operating Centre: QUEENS ROAD DEPOT, QUEENS ROAD, MANCHESTER, M8 8UT Authorisation: 165 vehicle(s) Transport Manager(s): JOHN ROXBURGH, ANDREW WILSON

13th March

PC2021320 SN GO NORTH WEST LIMITED Director(s): DAVID ALLEN BROWN, ELODIE BRIAN 4 MATTHEW PARKER STREET, Go-Ahead Group PLC, LONDON, SW1H 9NP Operating Centre: QUEENS ROAD DEPOT, QUEENS ROAD, MANCHESTER, M8 8UT Authorisation: 165 vehicle(s) Transport Manager(s): JOHN ROXBURGH, ANDREW NORMAN WILSON, ROBERT JAMES WATSON, ANGELA SUSAN RYDER New Undertaking: Vehicles with eight passenger seats or less will not be operated under the licence without the prior written agreement of the Traffic Commissioner who may require you to agree to certain undertakings. Attached to Licence. New Undertaking: Limousines and novelty type vehicles are not to be operated under this operator's licence. Attached to Licence

 

[Goldfish62]

Why has it gone back in again?


From 2 weeks ago:
PC2021320 SN GO-AHEAD XX LTD Director(s): DAVID BROWN, ELODIE BRIAN 4 MATTHEW PARKER STREET, Go-Ahead Group PLC, LONDON, SW1H 9NP Operating Centre: QUEENS ROAD DEPOT, QUEENS ROAD, MANCHESTER, M8 8UT Authorisation: 165 vehicle(s) Transport Manager(s): JOHN ROXBURGH, ANDREW WILSON

13th March

PC2021320 SN GO NORTH WEST LIMITED Director(s): DAVID ALLEN BROWN, ELODIE BRIAN 4 MATTHEW PARKER STREET, Go-Ahead Group PLC, LONDON, SW1H 9NP Operating Centre: QUEENS ROAD DEPOT, QUEENS ROAD, MANCHESTER, M8 8UT Authorisation: 165 vehicle(s) Transport Manager(s): JOHN ROXBURGH, ANDREW NORMAN WILSON, ROBERT JAMES WATSON, ANGELA SUSAN RYDER New Undertaking: Vehicles with eight passenger seats or less will not be operated under the licence without the prior written agreement of the Traffic Commissioner who may require you to agree to certain undertakings. Attached to Licence. New Undertaking: Limousines and novelty type vehicles are not to be operated under this operator's licence. Attached to Licence

Because it's now got the proper company name and clarifies the undertaking re non PSVs?

 

[winston270twm]

Why has it gone back in again?


From 2 weeks ago:
PC2021320 SN GO-AHEAD XX LTD Director(s): DAVID BROWN, ELODIE BRIAN 4 MATTHEW PARKER STREET, Go-Ahead Group PLC, LONDON, SW1H 9NP Operating Centre: QUEENS ROAD DEPOT, QUEENS ROAD, MANCHESTER, M8 8UT Authorisation: 165 vehicle(s) Transport Manager(s): JOHN ROXBURGH, ANDREW WILSON

13th March

PC2021320 SN GO NORTH WEST LIMITED Director(s): DAVID ALLEN BROWN, ELODIE BRIAN 4 MATTHEW PARKER STREET, Go-Ahead Group PLC, LONDON, SW1H 9NP Operating Centre: QUEENS ROAD DEPOT, QUEENS ROAD, MANCHESTER, M8 8UT Authorisation: 165 vehicle(s) Transport Manager(s): JOHN ROXBURGH, ANDREW NORMAN WILSON, ROBERT JAMES WATSON, ANGELA SUSAN RYDER New Undertaking: Vehicles with eight passenger seats or less will not be operated under the licence without the prior written agreement of the Traffic Commissioner who may require you to agree to certain undertakings. Attached to Licence. New Undertaking: Limousines and novelty type vehicles are not to be operated under this operator's licence. Attached to Licence

The rest of the First Manchester depot sales have also gone amazingly quiet.

 

[Goldfish62]

Why has it gone back in again?


From 2 weeks ago:
PC2021320 SN GO-AHEAD XX LTD Director(s): DAVID BROWN, ELODIE BRIAN 4 MATTHEW PARKER STREET, Go-Ahead Group PLC, LONDON, SW1H 9NP Operating Centre: QUEENS ROAD DEPOT, QUEENS ROAD, MANCHESTER, M8 8UT Authorisation: 165 vehicle(s) Transport Manager(s): JOHN ROXBURGH, ANDREW WILSON

13th March

PC2021320 SN GO NORTH WEST LIMITED Director(s): DAVID ALLEN BROWN, ELODIE BRIAN 4 MATTHEW PARKER STREET, Go-Ahead Group PLC, LONDON, SW1H 9NP Operating Centre: QUEENS ROAD DEPOT, QUEENS ROAD, MANCHESTER, M8 8UT Authorisation: 165 vehicle(s) Transport Manager(s): JOHN ROXBURGH, ANDREW NORMAN WILSON, ROBERT JAMES WATSON, ANGELA SUSAN RYDER New Undertaking: Vehicles with eight passenger seats or less will not be operated under the licence without the prior written agreement of the Traffic Commissioner who may require you to agree to certain undertakings. Attached to Licence. New Undertaking: Limousines and novelty type vehicles are not to be operated under this operator's licence. Attached to Licence

Because it's now got the proper company name and clarifies the undertaking re non PSVs?

 

[mic]

Queens Rd have a staff shuttle mini bus which seats 8 people will they the new company be able to use this

 

[Kahuna47]

Queens Rd have a staff shuttle mini bus which seats 8 people will they the new company be able to use this

The mini buses isn't used for public service - exempt from any licencing requirements.

K

 

[Blackpudding]

13th March
PC2021320 SN GO NORTH WEST LIMITED Director(s): DAVID ALLEN BROWN, ELODIE BRIAN 4 MATTHEW PARKER STREET, Go-Ahead Group PLC, LONDON, SW1H 9NP Operating Centre: QUEENS ROAD DEPOT, QUEENS ROAD, MANCHESTER, M8 8UT Authorisation: 165 vehicle(s) Transport Manager(s): JOHN ROXBURGH, ANDREW NORMAN WILSON, ROBERT JAMES WATSON, ANGELA SUSAN RYDER New Undertaking: Vehicles with eight passenger seats or less will not be operated under the licence without the prior written agreement of the Traffic Commissioner who may require you to agree to certain undertakings. Attached to Licence. New Undertaking: Limousines and novelty type vehicles are not to be operated under this operator's licence. Attached to Licence

I'm surprised that they have only applied for 165 vehicles. That is less than the current First authorisation and if my numbers are correct less than First are currently operating on site.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm surprised that they have only applied for 165 vehicles. That is less than the current First authorisation and if my numbers are correct less than First are currently operating on site.

The deal covers 163 vehicles IIRC

 

[Blackpudding]

The deal covers 163 vehicles IIRC

Correct but they currently operate circa 170 vehicles including 16 vehicles (13 Free Bus and 3 School Bus) operated on behalf of TfGM and a small number of training vehicles.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Correct but they currently operate circa 170 vehicles including 16 vehicles (13 Free Bus and 3 School Bus) operated on behalf of TfGM and a small number of training vehicles.

Though evidently, not in future.

 

[richw]

Correct but they currently operate circa 170 vehicles including 16 vehicles (13 Free Bus and 3 School Bus) operated on behalf of TfGM and a small number of training vehicles.

When you say operate, do you mean in service at any one time? Or just 170 buses in the yard. VOR and not in use don’t require a disc.

 

[Blackpudding]

Though evidently, not in future.

Indeed. Intriguing!

 

[Blackpudding]

When you say operate, do you mean in service at any one time? Or just 170 buses in the yard. VOR and not in use don’t require a disc.

I mean they have a total allocation of circa 170 buses including day to day maintenance spares which will require a disc less the three training vehicles which are the only vehicles that do not require a licence.

 

[Blackpudding]

deleted

 

[Kahuna47]

Following on from a post on the TfGM-area bus timetable updates and general news thread, there's a a few cuts to the network in Bolton and Oldham depots:

Evening services are cut from 68 (Farnworth - Trafford Centre), 501 (Farnworth - Bolton - Johnson Fold), 507 (Harwood circular) and 561/562 (Withins circulars).

58 (Oldham - Rochdale) is completely withdrawn and 415 (Oldham - Middleton) is now evenings only. TfGM are trying to source replacements through tender (Diamond or Vision bus will probably pick up the Bolton stuff, not sure about Oldham's.)

Seems a little suprising they've not left things as they are with a pending sale but they still seem pretty hell bent on saving money where they can. Its also noteworthy that it leaves First with no local evening services in Bolton (apart from the through routes to other towns).

K

 

[Bungle965]

Following on from a post on the TfGM-area bus timetable updates and general news thread, there's a a few cuts to the network in Bolton and Oldham depots:

Evening services are cut from 68 (Farnworth - Trafford Centre), 501 (Farnworth - Bolton - Johnson Fold), 507 (Harwood circular) and 561/562 (Withins circulars).

58 (Oldham - Rochdale) is completely withdrawn and 415 (Oldham - Middleton) is now evenings only. TfGM are trying to source replacements through tender (Diamond or Vision bus will probably pick up the Bolton stuff, not sure about Oldham's.)

Seems a little suprising they've not left things as they are with a pending sale but they still seem pretty hell bent on saving money where they can. Its also noteworthy that it leaves First with no local evening services in Bolton (apart from the through routes to other towns).

K

I vaguely remember when the 58 was one of First's flagship routes in the area going to the Trafford Centre! I do wonder who will actually pick the route up, the only real option I can see there is someone like Stagecoach.
Not just saving money but are they still struggling for drivers in Bolton as well?

 

[radamfi]

Does the 58 need replacing? The Rochdale to Oldham section mirrors the tram and the 59 also covers much of the route.

 

[Kahuna47]

Not just saving money but are they still struggling for drivers in Bolton as well?

Around 30 drivers down so I've heard...

Does the 58 need replacing? The Rochdale to Oldham section mirrors the tram and the 182 and 59 also cover the route.

I think the 58 is the only one not being taken out to tender for that same reason. Such a shame as it was a massive route at one point and to see it fall from grace like this is a real shame.

K

 

[Goldfish62]

When you say operate, do you mean in service at any one time? Or just 170 buses in the yard. VOR and not in use don’t require a disc.

Curiously the current O licence for First Manchester shows two operating centres for Queens Road, one with an authorisation for 185 discs and the other for 160.

 

[Blackpudding]

Curiously the current O licence for First Manchester shows two operating centres for Queens Road, one with an authorisation for 185 discs and the other for 160.

With the closure of Bury depot, nearly a couple of years ago now, an increase in the authorisation at Bolton and Queens Road was sought. Queens Road authorisation was increased to 185 but the previous authorisation of 160 was not removed from the licence details at the same time the increase was given.

 

[Goldfish62]

With the closure of Bury depot, nearly a couple of years ago now, an increase in the authorisation at Bolton and Queens Road was sought. Queens Road authorisation was increased to 185 but the previous authorisation of 160 was not removed from the licence details at the same time the increase was given.

Ah, thanks for the explanation.

 

[Volvodart]

Optare are to supply 21 battery-electric Metrodecker EV double deckers for First York park and ride with delivery from this October.

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/17526157.new-fleet-of-electric-buses-for-york-this-year/

New fleet of electric buses for York this year

By Dan Bean DBPressReporter

A NEW fleet of electric, double decker buses is set to arrive in York this year.

City of York Council and First York announced on Monday that the city would "soon be home to one of the biggest fleets of double deck electric buses outside of London", from October 2019.

Twenty-one new, zero-emission and fully electric vehicles, each capable of carrying 99 passengers and with a range of more than 150 miles on one charge, have been ordered with funding also coming from the Office for Low Emission Vehicles.

A dozen single-deck Optare buses have been operating from two of six Park & Ride services for five years, and the new fleet is set to help combat air pollution in York, with each bus potentially taking "up to 75 cars off the congested streets".

Councillor Andrew Waller, Executive member for the environment, said: "We’re committed to tackling congestion and reducing air pollution in the city, and these new zero-emission, electric buses will play a key role in helping us to achieve these objectives by taking more cars off the road and making Park & Ride a truly sustainable form of transport."

Marc Bichtemann, managing director of First York, said: "We’re proud to be the operator of one of the biggest fleets of double deck electric buses outside of London, as we continue to work with City of York Council to improve air quality in York.

"Today’s announcement showcases the benefits of partnership working in practice and we remain committed to investing in our bus services in York, as we share the same vision. By working together, local authorities and bus operators can make a real impact on congestion and air quality, provide better services for our customers, support local economies more effectively and, ultimately, help to increase passenger numbers."

Robert Drewery, Optare’s commercial director, said: "In 2014, our electric single deck Versas began operation on the city’s Park & Ride service. We have built on five years of valuable EV experience in York to develop our product range. In 2017, Optare partnered with First and City of York Council in launching our prototype electric double deck into service.

"The lessons learned during the trial have been fundamental in shaping the design of the Metrodecker EV, the world’s first truly zero emissions double deck bus. Optare is particularly proud that our vehicle, designed and manufactured in Yorkshire, will be at the centre of continued air quality improvents in York."

 

[Rod Harrison]

Following on from a post on the TfGM-area bus timetable updates and general news thread, there's a a few cuts to the network in Bolton and Oldham depots:

Evening services are cut from 68 (Farnworth - Trafford Centre), 501 (Farnworth - Bolton - Johnson Fold), 507 (Harwood circular) and 561/562 (Withins circulars).

58 (Oldham - Rochdale) is completely withdrawn and 415 (Oldham - Middleton) is now evenings only. TfGM are trying to source replacements through tender (Diamond or Vision bus will probably pick up the Bolton stuff, not sure about Oldham's.)

Seems a little suprising they've not left things as they are with a pending sale but they still seem pretty hell bent on saving money where they can. Its also noteworthy that it leaves First with no local evening services in Bolton (apart from the through routes to other towns).

K

I see on Dennis Dart forum that Stagecoach have registered the 149 and some other evening/Sunday services from 28/4/19. Consolidating the NMGH Victoriam Avenue services before enhanced competition starts from Go Ahead perhaps?

 

[overthewater]

That is welcome news for York. I wonder if york will match it some extra investment.

 

[Jordan Adam]

That is welcome news for York. I wonder if york will match it some extra investment.

I don't think it's been mentioned here, but there's also meant to be a refurbishment program ongoing right now for the Citaro bendys.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That is welcome news for York. I wonder if york will match it some extra investment.

I'm not sure what you mean by "I wonder if york will match it some extra investment"???

That many new deckers will displace the Eclipses and most of the Bendis? I'd expect that the B7RLEs will enter the main fleet, hopefully to displace B7Ls. The York fleet is very long in the tooth (excluding the Electric Versas) and could really do with some newer deckers as well for the main operations.

 

[overthewater]

I mean is could First say will here an extra 10 brand new deckers because of the government investment?

 

[Jordan Adam]

I'm not sure what you mean by "I wonder if york will match it some extra investment"???

That many new deckers will displace the Eclipses and most of the Bendis? I'd expect that the B7RLEs will enter the main fleet, hopefully to displace B7Ls. The York fleet is very long in the tooth (excluding the Electric Versas) and could really do with some newer deckers as well for the main operations.

It was mentioned elsewhere that the Citaro's will be retained for one of the Park & Ride routes (I think the 2), along with the 66. I could be speaking utter rubbish though...