• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Edinburgh Tram developments

Chrism20

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2013
Messages
1,347
Well, don't, then.

That said, the tram is a relative irrelevance in Edinburgh's great public transport scheme, and I'm sure people will just go by bus instead.

I used to feel the same about the trams, however having moved to Murrayfield recently I must admit I was extremely surprised at just how well used the trams actually are and at all times of the day.

They struggle with matching the 100 for Airport to City Centre for time but for many local journeys out to the Gyle or into town they are better than the bus.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,160
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-47170979

Its that contingency fund that pushed it up? Also way is the money from the ST Johns Centre who said there woudl give an interest free loan to extending it down Leith walk>


The cost of extending Edinburgh's controversial tram scheme has jumped by 25% to £207m.

Edinburgh City Council is considering lengthening the tram line by 2.8 miles (4.6km) from the city centre to Newhaven.

It was initially estimated this would cost £165m but a final business case for the project now states it will be £207m, including a contingency fund.

A final decision on the extension will be made next month.

If the extension is approved by councillors, the works should be completed by 2022 and operational in the first quarter of 2023.

In the first year of operation, the council predicts 16 million passengers will use the line.

The original tram project came in at twice its original budget and the mistakes made on that scheme are subject to an ongoing public inquiry.

'Learning lessons from the previous project'
Council leader Adam McVey said he was confident there would be no repeat of the problems faced by the original tram scheme.

He said: "We'll be working very hard with the project team to make sure the things that happened in the last project are not repeated and, crucially, the things that happened when we got the project back on track are repeated.

"Edinburgh has a fantastic public transport network but we need to extend the tram to build on our first-class, fully-integrated transport system.

"Having developed the case further and gone through the tender process, we now have much greater certainty of the total project cost - following industry guidance, learning the lessons from the previous project and taking a thorough, diligent and prudent approach to risk management."

_105560473_princes_street_2009_getty.jpg
Image copyrightJEFF J MITCHELL
Image captionWork on the original tram project, such as this section in the city's Princes Street, caused huge disruption
Asked why the council was not waiting until the findings of the public inquiry into the original tram project were published, Councillor McVey said to do so would be a "dereliction of duty".

Conservative leader Councillor Iain Whyte said: "I've got huge concerns because if you look at the figures this works out at £92m per mile for what is an extension to a tram line that has already supposedly been half built, that is even more cost per mile than there was on the overrun on the last work to York Place.

"This isn't so much connecting the city, it is likely to bankrupt the city."

'One-dig' approach
Although the details of the final business case are not being revealed to the public until it is considered by the council's transport committee on 28 February, the council has said it can be built within a budget of £196m - an increase from the initial £165m estimation.

However, councillors will be asked to approve an overall budget of £207m to include a recommended 6% level of "optimism bias" to take account of an increased risk buffer for any problems encountered.

An initial assessment of the extension was predicted to cost a total of £165m.

The project will be funded through borrowing paid back by future tram fare revenues, along with a special £20m dividend from the city's public bus firm Lothian Buses.

Taking into account lessons learnt in the first phase of the tram project, construction is planned using a "one-dig" approach - closing each work site only once and opening them again only once all works are complete.

Councillors approved the extension in principle in 2015 but a final vote on the tram extension will take place on 14 March.

The delayed original tram line was opened in 2014 and cost £776m for a shortened route - more than double the original budget.

Deputy council leader, Councillor Cammy Day, said: "A tram to Newhaven would not only provide a direct link for the people of Newhaven and Leith to the city centre and out to the airport, but would connect residents and visitors to major employment and travel hubs along the route."
 

mrmartin

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2012
Messages
1,011
While seems somewhat expensive if it is to be primarily (>90%) funded by future fares it is a no brainer surely? I assume there is no Scottish govt funding going in here?

I can't think of many rail projects that are able to be funded like this.
 

och aye

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2012
Messages
802
Council set to back Edinburgh tram extension

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-47402066

n extension of Edinburgh's tram service to Newhaven has been approved by a committee of City of Edinburgh councillors.

The council's transport and environment committee backed the move despite concerns about cost and disruption.

The full council will be asked to approve the extension when it meets on 14 March.

Passenger numbers have been rising. Figures for 2018 showed 7.3 million people travelled on the trams.

The plan would see the extension funded by borrowing and repaid by revenue from future ticket sales.

There will also be financial support through a £20m "dividend" from Lothian Buses.
 

GrimShady

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2016
Messages
1,740
Good news!

I'm all for the extension and more!

Pity Glasgow can't get it's act together and start rebuilding its tram network.
 

kidman123

Member
Joined
3 Feb 2019
Messages
72
Location
Saughton Edinburgh
I used to feel the same about the trams, however having moved to Murrayfield recently I must admit I was extremely surprised at just how well used the trams actually are and at all times of the day.

They struggle with matching the 100 for Airport to City Centre for time but for many local journeys out to the Gyle or into town they are better than the bus.
I think this is because the 100 is more a direct route into town via corstophine Haymarket and city center but the tram goes out towards gyle saughton balgreen murryfield into Haymarket into city center. But it's only around 5-6 mins slower than the 100 with more stops and miles to do.
 

LeeLivery

Established Member
Joined
13 Jul 2014
Messages
1,462
Location
London
Extension approved according to The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...proves-207m-extension-to-tram-line?CMP=twt_gu

Edinburgh’s controversial tram line will finally be completed, nearly a decade after its half-built track first opened to customers.

The city’s council agreed on Thursday to spend as much as £207m on extending the line to its original destination in Newhaven on the Forth, linking the east end of the city by tram to its airport.

It is hoped the newly completed line will carry its first passengers in early 2023, nearly 10 years after the first section opened in 2014. The Scottish parliament passed legislation authorising the line in 2006, but the project has been dogged by political battles and bitter rows with its contractors.

Many of the city’s residents remember the disruption, delays and cost overruns that hampered the tram project from the outset, with the cost of the first phase soaring to more than £1bn.The botched project, now being investigated in a public inquiry led by a judge, meant the line being built in two phases. The first ended in the city centre, 2.8 miles (4.6km) short of its Newhaven terminus. The full length of the line will be 18.7km.

The council insists it has learnt lessons from the debacle and has divided the contract for the new extension into two. One consortium will ensure utility pipes on the route are properly identified and if necessary moved, and the second will lay the track and install the signals.

The decision to authorise the line’s completion was opposed by the Conservatives, who insist the council needs to wait until the inquiry into the first phase under Lord Hardie has published its report.

Members of Edinburgh’s community councils are also worried, and want the construction to be carefully phased and buses given priority on nearby roads to minimise disruption, which they fear could affect 75,000 residents and 1,500 businesses.

The council has set aside £2.4m to help affected businesses. It said the cost of the extension would be met by borrowing that would eventually be repaid by extra tram fares, and a £20m injection from Lothian Buses, the city’s publicly-owned transport company.

It predicts the tram will carry 16 million passengers in its first year of operation. The current line carried 7.4 million last year, well above original projections. Mindful of the original cost overrun, it estimates the extension will cost £165m but have added a £42m contingency fund.

Harald Tobermann, a spokesman for the Community Councils Together on Trams umbrella group, said there also needed to be tough controls on parking along the construction route. That was essential to “prevent the tram corridor from turning into Edinburgh’s largest park and ride area,” he said.

“We recognise that a strong feeling exists among many people in our communities that this project is being pushed through with undue and unnecessary haste.”
 

och aye

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2012
Messages
802
I am looking forward to the Leith section being completed. It'll be a lot more convenient to get up and down Leith Walk.
Lets hope they don't mess things up this time round!

A lot of work has already been done in Leith Walk. If construction goes according to plan without any major issues, it could well open before 2023. I wonder if the 2023 opening year, is just to give the council a bit of breathing space if they do come across any major problems and don't end up with egg on their face and the angry of the public like what happened during the initial works.
 

kilonewton

Member
Joined
19 Apr 2010
Messages
152
Location
Scotland no more
Lets hope they don't mess things up this time round!

A lot of work has already been done in Leith Walk. If construction goes according to plan without any major issues, it could well open before 2023. I wonder if the 2023 opening year, is just to give the council a bit of breathing space if they do come across any major problems and don't end up with egg on their face and the angry of the public like what happened during the initial works.
There’s a cemetery on Constitution Street. The wall is not the original boundary of the cemetery. Archeological works in that section alone could be very extensive, and I assume would have to fit in with traffic management plans for adjacent sections.
 

VioletEclipse

Member
Joined
10 Nov 2018
Messages
716
Location
Dùn Èideann
There’s a cemetery on Constitution Street. The wall is not the original boundary of the cemetery. Archeological works in that section alone could be very extensive, and I assume would have to fit in with traffic management plans for adjacent sections.
I say it could easily take five years to complete, unless they have actually learned from their mistakes last time ;)
 

Butts

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Jan 2011
Messages
11,323
Location
Stirlingshire
Does anyone know why the TVM's accept contactless but only for for transactions over £3

This prevents you buying a £1.70 single other than with change as they don't accept notes.

To dodge the "Airport Surcharge" the other night I walked up to the next stop at the park and ride only to realise I was "potless"

Luckily there as another "dodger" in situ and he gave me his fare and I was able to use my card to pay for both taking me over the £3 limit.
 

GaryMcEwan

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2013
Messages
1,604
Location
Bridgeton, Glasgow
Does anyone know why the TVM's accept contactless but only for for transactions over £3

This prevents you buying a £1.70 single other than with change as they don't accept notes.

To dodge the "Airport Surcharge" the other night I walked up to the next stop at the park and ride only to realise I was "potless"

Luckily there as another "dodger" in situ and he gave me his fare and I was able to use my card to pay for both taking me over the £3 limit.

It's apparently to keep the charges charged by the bank to a minimum...
 

Butts

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Jan 2011
Messages
11,323
Location
Stirlingshire
It's apparently to keep the charges charged by the bank to a minimum...

A likely tale .. no one bat's an eyelid if you pay for an "I" costing a third of that using contactless.

Surely - The Airport Surcharge could ameliorate any bank charges - quite easily !!!
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,060
A likely tale .. no one bat's an eyelid if you pay for an "I" costing a third of that using contactless.

Surely - The Airport Surcharge could ameliorate any bank charges - quite easily !!!
They often take a loss when they sell you that i, but they're hoping to make it back when you buy something else. The ticket machines aren't selling anything else
 

gghdeo

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2019
Messages
20
They often take a loss when they sell you that i, but they're hoping to make it back when you buy something else. The ticket machines aren't selling anything else

It’s not a great excuse for a transport provider; presumably better deals are available. Buses all over the country take contactless. Buses and trams in London only take contactless and Oyster now, with cash no-longer being accepted. They’ve actually taken the tram ticket machines out of action entirely.

I’m impatiently waiting for Lothian and Edinburgh Trams to catch-up because it’s a complete pain in the ass getting around Edinburgh if I’m only there for a day or two, compared to the cashless world I live in down here. Even m-tickets have a totally unreasonable minimum spend.
 

och aye

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2012
Messages
802
It’s not a great excuse for a transport provider; presumably better deals are available. Buses all over the country take contactless. Buses and trams in London only take contactless and Oyster now, with cash no-longer being accepted. They’ve actually taken the tram ticket machines out of action entirely.

I’m impatiently waiting for Lothian and Edinburgh Trams to catch-up because it’s a complete pain in the ass getting around Edinburgh if I’m only there for a day or two, compared to the cashless world I live in down here. Even m-tickets have a totally unreasonable minimum spend.
Off topic, sorry, but I believe the airport bus services and a couple of routes now have contactless payments. Lothian Buseshave a plan to eventually roll it out across the network, when that is of course is another question.
 

gghdeo

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2019
Messages
20
There's contactless payments accross the tvms now

Yes, but I believe the minimum amount for card payments is still above the cost of a single ticket (in the city). If there is no pay as you go and I must actually buy a ticket, they could at least let me buy a single with a card. I’m still waiting, highly impatiently, for Edinburgh to catch-up.
 
Last edited:

Butts

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Jan 2011
Messages
11,323
Location
Stirlingshire
Yes, but I believe the minimum amount for card payments is still above the cost of a single ticket (in the city). If there is no pay as you go and I must actually buy a ticket, they could at least let me buy a single with a card. I’m still waiting, highly impatiently, for Edinburgh to catch-up.

Yes it's £3, with a single being £1.70 to anywhere but the Airport.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,871
Location
Nottingham
Looks like there is some masterplan for development and they thought they might as well build the crossings where the roads are going to be, rather than disturbing the tramway later. Rather like the "roundabouts to nowhere" you sometimes see on roads in areas that are to be developed.
 

Elwyn

Member
Joined
5 May 2014
Messages
439
Location
Co. Antrim, Ireland
Having travelled that route frequently, I have noticed that the land either side looks to have been levelled and set aside for development. So as has been said, these crossing are likely in place now to avoid any disruption as and when the sites are built on. A bit of foresight for once.
 

Top