Virgin trains direct Liverpool to Glasgow trains 27/5/19

[CICERO55]

Hi does anyone know why virgin trains are operating 3 morning trains from Liverpool to Glasgow on this day and why only this day? Thanks

 

[sd0733]

There looks to be engineering works north of crewe in the morning with no VT crewe to Weaver before 12ish.
Makes use of any sets on Edge Hill and gets sets to Scotland to form the back workings when it opens in the afternoon. Looking at it they pick up the path of the Euston-brum-scotland from Wigan

 

[Johnny Lewis]

There's an Edinburgh to Liverpool and a Carlisle to Liverpool train on Saturday 25th May too, both Pendolinos. Interesting that all trains are routed via Golborne Junction. Are 390s not cleared via St Helens Central? Still: it will be great to see these direct services running, as TPE's long-awaited direct services show no signs of being introduced any time soon....

 

[_toommm_]

Quoted below - 06:59, 07:39 and 09:42

For anyone interested in a passenger Liv-Glasgow:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S51712/2019/05/27/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S51713/2019/05/27/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S51716/2019/05/27/advanced

 

[craigybagel]

There's an Edinburgh to Liverpool and a Carlisle to Liverpool train on Saturday 25th May too, both Pendolinos. Interesting that all trains are routed via Golborne Junction. Are 390s not cleared via St Helens Central? Still: it will be great to see these direct services running, as TPE's long-awaited direct services show no signs of being introduced any time soon....

No idea if they're cleared via St Helens Central, but even if they are, there aren't any traincrew at Virgin likely to sign that route - whereas they do have crews who sign Earlestown. I suspect they may have had to double man them though as I'm not sure there are any crews who sign both Golbourne - Earlestown and Earlestown - Liverpool.

 

[_toommm_]

No idea if they're cleared via St Helens Central, but even if they are, there aren't any traincrew at Virgin likely to sign that route - whereas they do have crews who sign Earlestown. I suspect they may have had to double man them though as I'm not sure there are any crews who sign both Golbourne - Earlestown and Earlestown - Liverpool.

That may be why the timetable is quite lax through that area so caution won't be thrown to the wind...

 

[craigybagel]

That may be why the timetable is quite lax through that area so caution won't be thrown to the wind...

They don't normally timetable services slowly because certain crews don't go over a route that often. It's probably timetabled lax to fit around all the other services that normally run through there. If you sign a route, you're expected to be competent enough to run at line speed.

 

[_toommm_]

They don't normally timetable services slowly because certain crews don't go over a route that often. It's probably timetabled lax to fit around all the other services that normally run through there. If you sign a route, you're expected to be competent enough to run at line speed.

It was more the fact that crew won't sign all of it so will have to be piloted, as to why they'll be going slower, as opposed to it just being a little used bit of line.

 

[Ianno87]

It was more the fact that crew won't sign all of it so will have to be piloted, as to why they'll be going slower, as opposed to it just being a little used bit of line.

No, AIUI (other experts may be better informed), pilot drivers should be able to route-conduct a driver unfamiliar with a route at normal line speed (although in practice it will probably be a little bit more cautious than usual).

All the extra time in the schedules is shown as Pathing time (NR Capacity Planning-specified). If it was mandated by Virgin to cover unfamiliarity, it would be shown as Performance Time (TOC-specified)

 

[driver_m]

Liverpool depot sign as far as Wigan so no double crewing necessary. However Central is not on our route cards. They're for engineering reasons. Line blocked till 1200 at Crewe.

 

[craigybagel]

Liverpool depot sign as far as Wigan so no double crewing necessary. However Central is not on our route cards. They're for engineering reasons. Line blocked till 1200 at Crewe.

Thanks, wasn't sure if you signed up that way. Is the idea you sign Wigan so you can work Wigan - Chat Moss - Manchester - Crewe during engineering work? When I worked at Virgin everything went via Chorley when ever there was a block north of Crewe but I understand Virgin never go that way anymore since Chat Moss got electrified?

 

[STANDISH]

Just to confirm Virgin trains are going via Chorley this Easter holidays. Preston and the next stop is Stockport, service only running to Birmingham International because of engineering works further south. Check details on RTT on Easter Saturday afternoon.

 

[craigybagel]

Just to confirm Virgin trains are going via Chorley this Easter holidays. Preston and the next stop is Stockport, service only running to Birmingham International because of engineering works further south. Check details on RTT on Easter Saturday afternoon.

So they are. Although now they can run 390s over the route which certainly wasn't an option in the past.

 

[driver_m]

Thanks, wasn't sure if you signed up that way. Is the idea you sign Wigan so you can work Wigan - Chat Moss - Manchester - Crewe during engineering work? When I worked at Virgin everything went via Chorley when ever there was a block north of Crewe but I understand Virgin never go that way anymore since Chat Moss got electrified?

More to do with stock moves that went from Edge Hill to Preston direct as to why Wigan is on our cards. Originally Liverpool signed Preston, then just to Winwick In, but it's now Wigan .

 

[dk1]

It was more the fact that crew won't sign all of it so will have to be piloted, as to why they'll be going slower, as opposed to it just being a little used bit of line.

Trains would run at line speed.

 

[driver_m]

It was more the fact that crew won't sign all of it so will have to be piloted, as to why they'll be going slower, as opposed to it just being a little used bit of line.

That is totally incorrect, you either sign a route or not. But it's irrelevant anyway as no conducting will be needed.

 

[craigybagel]

More to do with stock moves that went from Edge Hill to Preston direct as to why Wigan is on our cards. Originally Liverpool signed Preston, then just to Winwick In, but it's now Wigan .

Learn something new everyday, ta for that.

 

[tsr]

They don't normally timetable services slowly because certain crews don't go over a route that often. It's probably timetabled lax to fit around all the other services that normally run through there. If you sign a route, you're expected to be competent enough to run at line speed.

Come to think of it, I can't think of any occasion where timetabling would account for simply driving slowly over a diversionary route. If anything, any diversionary diagrams I've seen have tended to be on the optimistic side or else entirely normally timed.

No, AIUI (other experts may be better informed), pilot drivers should be able to route-conduct a driver unfamiliar with a route at normal line speed (although in practice it will probably be a little bit more cautious than usual).

All the extra time in the schedules is shown as Pathing time (NR Capacity Planning-specified). If it was mandated by Virgin to cover unfamiliarity, it would be shown as Performance Time (TOC-specified)

It's worth adding that on many routes there are differential speeds for different traction, and this can mean that if any unusual classes of loco/unit are diverted, they may be obliged to stick to lower speeds than a passenger would observe on normal timetabled services. This could give the incorrect impression that the driver is going slowly because they are unfamiliar and/or being piloted.