Because it makes the point that our journalists in this country are ill informed and ignorant in general. You could very easily pick out their numerous other mistakes such as getting pictures of celebrities and politicians wrong. This just happens to be something people on here will naturally pick up. Journos like to point out everyone else's fails. So what's good for the goose and all that.
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Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?
- Thread starter Andy Pacer
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Because it makes the point that our journalists in this country are ill informed and ignorant in general. You could very easily pick out their numerous other mistakes such as getting pictures of celebrities and politicians wrong. This just happens to be something people on here will naturally pick up. Journos like to point out everyone else's fails. So what's good for the goose and all that.
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RailUK Forums
Well yes, but it is also making the point that many people engage in the least important minutia rather than the substance of the story! If you believe there is a substance
You write a story about Jose Mourinho's tax affairs in the football, and put a picture of Gareth Southgate. You would get rightly slaughtered. Set the tone wrong and it's downhill all the way. The story almost becomes lrrelevent. When journalists get sloppy, you get people like Donald Trump able to say lies and get away with it. So for me, it's more about keeping the jourmalists feet to the flames.
NoMorePacers
Established Member
Does anyone know if Pacers still run Hull-York? It’s likely I’m travelling on that line on Saturday and I am aware that the line is mostly 155/158 run now, but I’d still like to know if Pacers work it. Cheers.
so just because a photo that is not of the right train is next to the article, something that few would notice, you dismiss the story? Crikey!
Can we not, you know, have this discussion again? Please?
At risk of asking an on topic question, the Pacers I've been on recently have seemed even more decrepit than usual... are Northern running them down and 'making do' with them now, rather than spending money?
Shaw S Hunter
Established Member
Can we not, you know, have this discussion again? Please?
At risk of asking an on topic question, the Pacers I've been on recently have seemed even more decrepit than usual... are Northern running them down and 'making do' with them now, rather than spending money?
And why would Northern behave any differently to any other TOC that has had a fleet with a known imminent end of life? VXC's loco-hauled stock in the last few month before Voyager introduction was in a decidedly run-down state with inoperative heaters being a common fault not to mention the appalling reliability of the 47/8s towards the end. So long as safety is maintained it's the obvious way to run a commercial operation especially if external quality controls are not particularly strong.
I wasn't suggesting in any way that there was anything wrong with doing what Northern seem to be doing, just wondering whether it is what in fact they are doing.
No need to get all shirty about it.
Shaw S Hunter
Established Member
And no need to take an explanation so personally, that was certainly not my intention, just looking to put the situation into context especially as it's clear that some contributors to this thread seem not to see the bigger picture.
sprinterguy
Established Member
The railway specific vocabulary is poor (Despite what some London-centric observers might think, the Northern network consists of more than one "line"
) and the angle they've chosen is a strange one: Delays to the introduction of Northern's new trains mean that the National Railway Museum can't have one yet? I don't think that the thousands of passengers who have to travel on these trains every day really give a stuff! They're the ones who are truly disadvantaged by the current delays.Plus given the NRM's historic attitude towards multiple units, I suspect the unit would just be dumped in the yard outside to rust away for several years.
It varies from TOC to TOC. The 314s look a lot smarter than the 313s. Looking further back, the SWT CIGs and VEPs were well looked after right up to the end. By contrast, the Connex South Central units were wrecked. On the last day of slam doors to Horsham I travelled in a compartment that had been stripped bare by vandals. In the space between the seats, the only thing left between me and the outside world was the external steel sheet!
NoMorePacers
Established Member
Northern Pacers (or most of their diesel fleet in general) never struck out as being in particularly great condition or being maintained a great deal, from my observations.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Their fleet has struck me as lacking in areas. (Nice PFP btw.)
NoMorePacers
Established Member
If this is a joke I don't get it.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
1. I'm serious.
2. You have a nice profile picture.
You clearly are not old enough to remember the latter days of the Class 104s in the Northern area, during the late 1980s! These units were really decrepit and never were treated to an interior refurb in their lifetime!
Today I have travelled on a couple of 142s then a refurbished 150/2 that had Ashborne seating. Despite complaints about pacers not having much legroom, the 150/2 didn't either. In fact the back to back seating on 319s seems to be a better arrangement.
The 150s are a unit I don't want to travel on at any time, let alone on a bright warm day. It just makes their claustrophobic interior worse. I cannot agree that replacing Pacers with 150s is an upgrade. They are around the same age and I find any journey on them a drag and soon makes me feel stressed out.
NoMorePacers
Established Member
Yes, I am fairly certain that the only reason 150s are being kept is purely because they are not Pacers.
Killingworth
Established Member
In an ideal world all these new train building works should be looking forward to orders to replace the 15x family with a new class of universally compatible stock to service the nation until 2050.
J-2739
Established Member
Once the Pacers go, the 150s will become the new bare minimum.
anamyd
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Northern - "We've now withdrawn the last Pacer!"
Passenger - "What's this then...?"
Northern - "A Sprinter."
Passenger - "Oh, for ****'s sake..."
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And then passengers have to realise they’ll be stuck with 150s until about 2029 by which time they’ll be positively ancient.
anamyd
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In 2029 the oldest 150/1s will be 44 years old and the youngest 150/2s will be 42 years old... The 150/0 twins if they end up on Northern will be a whole 45 years old in 2029! When the 150s were new, the 10x/11x/12x DMUs they replaced were only around 25 years old, right...?
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
I can see 150's and maybe 156's being replaced when the next franchise comes along in 2025. They will probably be the last DMU's ever ordered.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Sort of... though many of the sprinters replaced LHCS, with the heritage units sticking around a while longer.
Yeah. PR wise would be difficult not to given they're being scrapped elsewhere already. I do wonder how many 'normal' customers think that Sprinters are Pacers too and that they'll be going this year as well.
anamyd
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I actually thought that may have been the case
anamyd
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too many
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
The annoying thing is, a 150 could be made half-decent with a bit more than the spit and polish they get. The Welsh and GWR units show this, as do the Renatus 321s dealing with a very similar vehicle layout.
I have had a run out in 156449 a couple of Northern 153s a refurbished 150 and an unrefurbished 150 in the last few days.
The vestibules of 156449 were positively rotten. The unrefurbished 150 was showing its age but was fine.
I bumped into a couple 142s which were noticeably smoking, I can't say I've noticed that before.
The vestibules of 156449 were positively rotten. The unrefurbished 150 was showing its age but was fine.
I bumped into a couple 142s which were noticeably smoking, I can't say I've noticed that before.
At the time when the first Northern refurbished 150/1s were being rolled out, I caught one. Another passenger onboard was commenting that it was a new train. I explained to him that it was in fact a 30+ year old train that had been refurbished and that the new trains should start entering service during 2018. He wouldn't have it and insisted the 150/1 was brand new!
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